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#33481 Thu Apr 10 2003 04:21 PM
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Last Friday my wife and I spent almost 8 hours on the computer following a very large auction (not petroleum related) that permitted internet bidding. The auction was for the contents of the Kemper Military Academy in Boonville, MO. It was run by the Sonabid bidding people and the Maas Auctioneers. We had placed about 30 bids (there were over 600 items) on various items. On most of them we were over bid quickly.
About half-way through the auction a small lot came up that we had placed a $50.00 bid on. Our bid was recognized on the computer and thay asked for bids from the floor. The bid got up to $50.00 and was awarded to someone on the floor, ignoring the internet bid of mine.
It took me two day to get someone to respond to my phone calls and emails and do you know what they told me? We are sorry, we made a mistake.
I know there are a lot of petroleum related auctions that permit internet bidding, but I don't know if I would participate now that this has happened.
It appears that a high bid on the internet does not guarantee you the item. They seem to have the right to take a bid from the floor even if it is the same as yours.
Just a warning, be careful.


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#33482 Thu Apr 10 2003 04:49 PM
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Hi Jack, we have a non - petro section now for anything thats non-petro,

#33483 Thu Apr 10 2003 05:32 PM
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Jack, I think that point is relevant in that some people now may choose to not travel a long distance when they can bid at home. Of course if you bid the amount first which you did you should of got it. RIP THEM A NEW ONE and let them know that you aren't happy and you posted it here, and that maybe others wont bid on their auctions if they cant give the earier high bid preference. Squeaky wheel gets the Grease!! ................DODOGAS

#33484 Thu Apr 10 2003 09:35 PM
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I had a similar thing happen to me in the Aumann/Ray May auction through Bidspotter. I had appeared to win two different items on my computer screen, but the items were sold to an on site bidder. Afterwards they just told me that my bid wasn't received. I know that it should have been, so Jack you are right, bidder beware.

#33485 Thu Apr 10 2003 10:19 PM
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Jack,
It could have been a mistake or it could have been how they exacute internet or absentee bids.
Say you placed an internet or absentee bid at $50. Lawyers will tell the auctioneer they should open live bidding with the highest absentee bid ($50)because the auctioneer is an agent for the seller. Of course most absentee bidders want the live bidding to open at a lower amount($20) and their absentee bids to be placed competitively with the live bidders($25,$30,$35, etc) in hopes of buying at a lower price if the winning bid isn't as high as their maximum absentee bid. Most auctioneers will place absentee bids competitively with the live bids (like most buyers want them to). When this happens the absentee bidder runs the risk of a live bidder getting the item because of where the bid increments fall(maybe your bids were landing on 25-35-45, and the live bidders landed on 30-40-50). In your case it might have been the way the bid increments fell.

Another possibility is that there were multiple live bidders and both your absentee bid and a live bid fell on the same increment but the auctioneer chose to accept the live bid over yours. Every auctioneer that I know (and thats alot) would rather sell to a bidder in attendance rather than an absentee bidder.

It could be the auction crew messed up. Nobody is perfect. I've been at auctions and had the auctioneer miss my bid. In fact I was at an auction where not only the auctioneer missed my bid but the 3 ringmen missed it too!( can you say Iowa Gas?)I was doing everything but jumping up and down and yelling. All 4 guys were looking the other way!

Gaspower,
A similar thing probably happened to you. My guess it was because the way the bid increments fell.

No auctioneer would intentionally not take a bid. The higher the selling price the more money they make.

I'm very familiar with the Aumman Auction crew. They're a first rate bunch.
Bob


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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#33486 Fri Apr 11 2003 12:03 AM
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Bob , Yell for sure, it has worked for me, also dont be afraid to offer your own increment or yell out a low starting bid(lower than the auctioneer is trying to start it at) If you are in the front and vocal it will work, the crowd will usually support you( on a no reserve auction) The Auctioneer is bound to take your bid, has no choice but to take it , remind him loudly that it is no reserve and a bid has been placed. However you have to read the auctioneer and do it before he can say- no inerest shown, we will withdraw or auction it later. I have bought a lot of machinery and tooling this way, including a gear hobbing machine 50.00 plus tooling 80.00 that I sold later for over a G-note. Also if you are at the front and you want a lot split and you mention it before the bidding starts, they will often say " Anybody else want it split or this piece to go separate" and a couple bidders say yes, they will usually do it!!!
In my experience, even if the increments did not really work out, I think the Auctioneer should have in all fairness said, "50 we already have, any advance on 50............ sold to the absentee bidder
Happy bidding....DODOGAS

#33487 Fri Apr 11 2003 12:34 AM
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Lastgas, you seem to have missed the point. I was not an absentee bidder, I was an internet bidder. I was required to place my bid before the entire auction started. My bid was placed before any bid came from the floor and should have been either where they started or where when they had got to my bid, I was the winner becuase I had placed the bid first.
I am not complaining for myself, I am only telling you what can happen.
This is the same as the warnings of viruses you see on this website.
And one more thing, I have seen auctioneers ignore bids just so some friend of his could win the bid. In my 68 years I have probably been to close to 100 auctions, and I rate auctioneers just above used car salemen.


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
#33488 Fri Apr 11 2003 05:58 AM
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Jack,
I think the auctioneer treated your internet bid just as he would an absentee bid. The auction you mentioned didn't work like ebay where the first bidder at a certain amount has preference. Did you read the terms and conditions before you placed your internet bid? If the terms stated that in case two bids of the same amount were received, the first bid would be accepted, then yes, the auction company made a mistake. I was just trying to explain the different ways that your bid might not be accepted. Auctioneers are just like any other business person. There are good one and there are bad ones. I try to find the honest ones and buy from them.


Dodo,
I like to stand up front too. I talk to the ringmen or the crew holding the items up. I'm not afraid to ask for items to be sold a certain way, or cut the bid increment, or offer an opening bid at a level much lower than the auctioneer is asking for.

As for the auctioneer being bound to take your bid, yes and no. It all depends on how the terms and conditions are written. There's usually a clause that gices the auctioneer some discretion on accepting or rejecting bids, even at a no reserve auction.

Every auctioneer I know would rather take the bid from a live bidder than take the same amount from an absentee or internet bidder. The exception to this would be with live internet bidders. Even then its likely that the bidder in attendance would have an advantage over the live internet bidder if they both bid the same amount.

Do to business commitments I'm no longer able to attend many auctions. I only went to 3 last weekend. LOL. I don't know the total number of auctions I've been to, but the number is closer to 1000 than 100 (I must be gettin old). I've got a friend that teaches at an auction school, and speaks at many state auctioneers association conventions. He has asked me to be a guest speaker at the auction school where he teaches, and at a couple conventions. My guess is that I probably have more auction experience than most of the guys that participate on this site. I usually side with the buyer, but unless theres more realative info that hasn't been posted, I'd have to side with the auctioneer on this one.

If you really want an item, your best bet is to attend the auction.
Bob


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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