Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana A question for any Mobil Pegasus Sign experts

I recently bought and have received item ebay item 151042215717.
It looks great but I notice that at the tip of upper wing and around the Pegasus jaw the red enamel is slightly outside the blue outline border. You can see this if you use magnification feature of ebay. I would think that this could be entirely possible in the original enameling process.
At this price I may be a bit paranoid but the last thing I want is to buy a fake, expertly made in India. Any expert opinions out there ?
thanks in advance.

I'm not an Mobil expert but IMO it's a repop. between the grommets and the only other sign he sold recently was a repop Union 76 sign I would push to get my money back.

No expert either...but looks real to me.

There are many places on that sign where the red porcelain is outside the lines. The grommets are smaller than the ones on my sign. Those two facts dont mean that the sign is a fake, but its not looking good.

Richard,
In comparison to my IR 47 PPP, the red is more "orangy" and I also have the same findings as wocopep. My other PPP has no red color creep beyond the border as well. FWIW the grommets are in the right location but smaller and not oxidized at all. That said, I would wait for Darin or Pegasus to weigh in with a meaningful opinion. LOL
Fred

I suspect anyone that claims they buy signs at estate sales. In all my years of buying, I can't think of any great signs that I got at an estate sale. I have a suspicious nature tho. I also don't like the color outside of the line. That might have something to do with the layering sequence of the frit before firing. You need a photo comparison to a known old one.

Sign looks good to me.
Seems like the IR46 and IR47 had some creep on the red. Mostly on the wing tips and face. It is like the red was rotated a tad counter clock wise.
The later signs like the IR51's and 52's dont seem to have this creep on the red, but these signs have thinner metal.
My IR47 I just sold was thicker gauge of metal than the IR50 I have now.
But IMO the sign looks fine and the grommets are split correctly.

here is one that has the creeping red. IR47.
Look at the mane on the back of the head and in the wings.



This sign has been touched up but it is correct.

390561014104


The one you bought looks like NOS to me.
Good luck
Dan

In my opinion Richard's sign is good. I have yet to see/hear of an absolute known reproduction with the IR markings, although in this day and age I fear the time will come. Comparing photos in the listing to my near mint IR47 Mobilgas plate, the grommets do appear to be the correct size in comparison with mine as to how far they run into the blue border. The blue runs around the edge on the back are indicative of an original, as well as the other lighter blue splotches on the back. The IR46 Mobiloil sign I have in my hands right now has similar areas of blue on the back. All of the modern repros I have seen are spotless white on the back.

In regards to the off set blue outline, I have my 1946 Mobiloil plate within reach so took a couple of pics. It is without doubt an original sign. You will notice the border is "off" on the ear and the start of the mane as well as the upper wing, a spot similar to Richard's plate. Even the lower wing has some red out of the line near the tip.

Last, in regards to the red colors, I see probably 4 different shades of red in the plates hanging on my walls right now, so my conclusion is these varied a little bit by batch more than likely. With the many thousands of these that were produced over the approximately 15 year period these were used, there was bound to be slight differences in color.
Darin

Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to weigh in on my question. Special thanks to Dan and Darin for posting pictures. You have been immensely helpful and thanks to you I feel certain that I know what I have bought.

Yes, I believe your sign is good...however it seems there are a few individuals on here that "shoot first, then ask questions later". Their first action is to yell fake...then it has to be proved real instead of the other way....just my observation.

The red outside of the lines was probably due to the silkscreen getting close to the end of it's usefull life .Silk screens get extra little holes in them over time due to the constant rubbing with the squeegee .My wife used to silkscreen at one of the clothes factories back in the BC (before china)days . She said they would keep patching the screens to make them last as long as possible .Imperfections will always be found in hand made items if you look close enough .Computer generated items will be almost perfect because they correct most of the mistakes before they print . Man, some of you guys just call everything fake .