I'm trying to get an idea of what to look for in a high end pump. I'm thinking about a visible and a clock face pump, in all my collecting I much prefer original to restored items.If someone was to have around 7k to spend, what models would be on the list?/ One visible,one clock face....How have pumps appreciated over the last 20 years or so??And finally, which is preferred, a pump with the guts, or w/o??? I realize this is a pretty wide open question, but all views would be appreciated, thanks...Lenny
Lenny....Today is your lucky day.....I have all high end gutless pumps for sale....come see me and oh......bring the 7K
Buy what you like. Forget the whole investing thing bud.
If I had 7K to spend, I would probably skip the visible and go for a nice display case clockface pump. Just my opinion. It seems that clockfaces are still increasing in value, where visibles have plateaued and are probably on the way down slightly.
Wes
I've been collecting for a while, and am not thinking about an investment, I just love antiques. Everyone wants to know how things hold their value, lots of people want to know if they can expect something to appreciate. I was just hoping for some advice on models, a kind of "if you were going to make a big purchase, what would it be........."
Get a copy of An Illustrated Guide to GAS PUMPS by Jack Sim, then look thru & find something you like. Then put the word out what your looking for.
Some pumps are so RARE or Desirable that $7,000 won't even come close to buying 1.
GOOD LUCK in your search.
Not that I can afford one but if I had the money and could actually find one I buy a Boyle-Dayton combo oil dispenser and pump. But think those are more than $7K.
As DB stated, look in my Gas Pump Identification book for a pump that you might not only like to look at but will also go up in value.
If you have a copy of my book, I would like to suggest you look at the following pumps on these pages:
42, Anthony coin-operated pump, probably underpriced in my book, but then has anyone ever found one.
44, Aqua E-55, actualy priced about right.
77, Bennett-Sinclair, only problem is that only two of these pumps were ever made.
99, Bowser 560. How rare is this, I can't even find a color picture of this pump?
112, Boyle-Dayton 748. Price in book is about right, but has anyone ever found one?
128, Dayton 910-R, just be careful you don't buy a reproduction.
129, Dayton 1000-T, just have a truck or trailer big enough to bring it home.
136/137/138, Early Erie twins, priced about right, but hard to find.
138, Erie 310, who wouldn't give a .... to own one of these.
141. Erie 50 Cash Recorder, probably underpriced in the book, but you can get one if you are willing to pay the price. With all its features, this pump wil undoubtly go up in value.
174, The Fry "Super-Twin." This pump is worth more than any other Fry pump ever made, why, because they made 1000s of the Mae West pumps, but very few of these, and actually it is a very nice looking pump. Should go up in price.
180, Jenny, you will need a semi flat-bed to get this one home.
184/185, Keese pumps. Don't overlook these pumps, extreamly rare, will only go up in value.
195, Milestone CEN-15624. Real pieces of gas pump history, but again has anyone ever found one.
216/217/218, Don't overlook the early National's 50, & 802, buth will continue to gain value.
230, Since you live in Delaware, get over into PA and look for any Pensylvania (Penometer) pumps), I believe all of the clock version pump are worth more than the values in the book.
234, Raymonds multi-pumps. Actually a number if them have been found, pricy, but will go up in value.
239/240, Rush DC-3, DC-4 & the Rush station, the only problem is finding one of them.
241-243, St. Louis pump. My opinion is that all of them are highly underpriced. Look at the style and detail of these pumps.
244/245/246, again get up into PA, you might be able to find the one and only Sharmeter the Gieger bros. haven't found yet.
280-282, Tokheim 36 & 36B twins & ADCs, just hope that DB hasn't been there before you.
300, United States pumps, style, design, underpriced in the book, but has anyone ever found one.
300, Tokheim Vac Liquid. My belief is that if anyone was ever found it would sell for at least three times the value in my book.
318, Wayne's Greek column pumps. Pumps that will just keep going up and up in value.
322/324, as a group, probably the highest value pumps on any three pages in my book and I am not sure some of them are priced high enough. Right after the second edition of the book, a very well off collector told me he would pay three times the value I put in the book for either the 802, 804 or the 805.
325/326. Wayne 50, 50A, 55 or 56 display pumps. Pricy, but would make a good investment.
348, Wisconsin, now that is a classy pump, but who has one?
Sometimes strange things happen that effect the value of items we seek. Just recently a couple of G&B 84 & 85s (page 162 & 163) sold for over $20,000 each. While these are nice display pumps, I just can't see $20,000, but anything can happen when two buyers want a certain thing at an auction.
Predicting how much something (in this case as gas pump) will be worth in the future is rediculous. In 1960 we Model T collectors all thought our Ts would be worth a ton in our late life, but who today wants a T or even an A. The value of these cars have dropped greatly, why, because today's buyers don't even know what we are talking about when we say I used to own Ts or As.
I love gas pump (although I only own one) and air meters, but if someone would come up to me and ask me what in this hobby should he be putting his money in (for future benefit), I would say Signs. And I don't mean signs that don't have chips, bullet holes, rust, nothing but perfect condition signs, this is what will escullate in value more that anything in this hobby.
Followed only by perfect rare globes.
I hope this opens an avenue for discussion, but remember guys, I am only expressing my opinion.
Jack Sim
Wow....what a great addenum to your book! This summer I'm going to be wandering around Maryland visiting historical societies and looking for old buildings and I'll have your book with that list folded in it. I know finding something that you all would consider rare (correction, finding any pump) would be as likely as me winning the lottery, but it will be fun to try.
Nicole
Nicole, in all my years of collecting it seems the newbies are the ones that come across the rarest pieces sometimes. The rest of us are looking too hard.
Jack,
Thanks for taking the time to give us that comprehensive report on gas pumps. Your books and research have changed the hobby drastically for the better.
Great list, just wish they most were not on the east side of the country. Thanks Jack, I will be looking also.
Hi lleno,
Interesting comment,"I much prefer original to restored items".In my experience,and I live in a desert,that may be a tough condition to meet depending on your definition of the term "displayable condition as found".
To me that means all original,complete,reasonably straght with enough remnant paint/decal/plate on it to tell what brand it might have been and needs nothing more than a hose,globe and perhaps a nozzle to be ready for display.Around here,it is really hard to meet those reqirements.I looked LONG and HARD and finally came up with a TOK 34 and a Wayne 60 that I am satisfied with;still looking for a visible and have given up on a clockface.I don't have enough reem for everything.The 34 and 60 are both computer pumps but are both also desireable pumps IMO.
I think your $7,000 will go a lot further if you consider desireable pumps as an option.Just something to think about.And,as noted,buy what you like.
Hey now, First, thank you Jack for taking the time to post such a detailed response,I think your book will be a necessity I cannot do without.As I had said, I'm not looking for an "investment" in the literal sense, but I want to put the $$$ somewhere where they will at least not go down. That said I love collecting and have had an interest in ptrolania for years. I'm just an avg. guy who has a little extra $$$,and think some of these antiques would be a good place to put it.As I'm sure others will agree, htese are pieces of artwork in a sense, te art deco styles, and the durability of porcelain are a big plus in my book. I do much prefer original to restored, but realistically, I think finding a pump in 100% original exc. would be hard, but to just restore 10-15%[the hose,glass,etc.]woud be good.I love doing the reseach involved with these endeavors.....
Shoot, I would settle for a photograph of a Fry "Super Twin" I'm betting they never actually built more than a prototype ........ Ed Shaver
Better buy 2-3 Books, 1ea for Truck, Office/Throne & Den!
Plus Always have a camera when out looking for pumps.
I have seen a super twin, they were built.....
The pictures I used in the book for the Fry Speedboy and the Fry Meter System pumps were from an 1928 ad, so they must have made them.
At the time Fry (the name was changed from Guarantee Liquid Measure to Fry around 1928) was making these pumps, they became part of the Wayne Pump Co., and it does appear that Wayne continued to make the Mae West pumps, but probably didn't make many of the Speedboys.
My opinion as to why Wayne acquired the Fry Co. was not to get the patents or to make the gas pumps, but to acquire the Marvel division. This is what was incorporated into Wayne, actually advertising the lube and oil dispensers as Wayne-Marvel.
Jack Sim
I think you might be right on that one KZ1000 - Beginners luck does exist, and I hope I might be the benificary of that on my very fist purchase into the pump world buying a 95-98% complete Pennsylvania Pump Co "Penometer" 41 Clock Face Gas Pump at a very decent price recently. For not having time to do ANY research before buying, and bairly knowing the difference between a visible, clock face & computer (and details I did know, come from recently watching American Pickers)let alone a Wayne vs a Tokheim. When I tried to research it after buying it, and could find next to nothing online about the pump or company other than two quotes, one from Jack's book, which said "next to nothing is known about this company". Next step, I bought Jack's book on my iPad, and have not stopped digging into it's history since!
Rare does not always mean valuable - sometimes things are rare because nobody wants or has an interest in them, but I think I'll do all right on this Penometer.