hi guys, just picked up this oilzum sign, and I was wondering if its authentic? no dates on it, or sign maker.it is a painted tin sign.it measures 23 7/8" long x 15" tall. not up to date on oilzum items so I thought I would ask. anybody ever see this type of sign before? thanks in advance!

It seems to look odd but I don't know if the "driver" logo was ever modified like this cus it looks like his jaw line is not as sleek and defined as it is on the same logo oil can I have it looks more rounded and plump. And the word oil. What do the older ones think.

here's a similar one listed on eBay....there are some differences, but I'm no expert
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1960s-OI...#ht_8610wt_1327

I have searched around and compared similar signs . the one gargoyle posted on e-bay looks identical to me , as far as the driver and the diamond shape or (flag). I haven't seen the sign I have out there as a reproduction. I went with my gut on it and I think it is a legit sign.until I can find some more info on it or some one can help verify it. thanks for the input guys!any oilzum gurus out there?

Fantasy

I was afraid it might be a repop. its true you learn something every day!

That's it? You tell the guy his sign is a fake but don't offer any evidence on what you based it on?
This has gotten to be quite common on the Oldgas forums - people making these claims to dispute the authenticity of something without offering anything to back it up.
The deal with the Red Hat sign in another thread a couple weeks ago is a good example. There were pictures of three different signs but no one offered any reasoning as to why they thought the OP sign was fake.
I know nothing about the sign above. The opinions vary, and I still know nothing about the sign above.

Agreed

So now all signs are fake, is that the agreed consensus? I have been watching this sign thing for years now, more than I care to recall and it's finally happened, they are all fake! There is only a handful of guys, about 10-15 that have the original signs, everyone else has fake signs!The sign in question is not a fake by the way.Get real boys.

I have not held the sign in question,as such I can't say if it is original or not.

But, such signage was in use in the mid 1950s until the mid 1970s... I took a few such signs off of Stations that were being "removed" and/or "refurbished" in the 60s and 70s...


Since it is Oilzum, one is assured that it has been "popped". Here is one of the "new 'popped versions". And they come already distressed.

# 380687214030



An original (IMO), mid 1950s- mid 1970s; "Dealer Sign" that went unsold on ebay:



1956 image of Oilzum Wall advertising:

Where to start..............

I almost didn't post that the sign dodgeman posted was a phony. I usually just send an email or PM, because of the potential that the non-believers will jump in, as happened here. But I wanted all readers, not just Tim, to know that it is fake.
Tim asked if sign was authentic, I answered no it is not (fantasy). Unfortunately for him, that wasn't what he was hoping to hear, hopefully it wasn't an expensive learning experience. How about his second question? Has anyone seen one (legit) before? Anyone? I didn't think so.

r49th, I do not publicly post fantasy or reproduction sign discrepancies/information. My opinion is the forgers/fraudsters most certainly follow these discussions on oldgas, and I sure don't want to enable them to create better phonies than they currently are polluting the hobby with.

redindianguy- ditto

Terry, don't understand the venom. Who said "all signs are fakes" ? Possibly you are lumping me in with some newbies who are quick to state "real" or "fake" without a clue. I assure you that is not me.

Bob, you could not have removed any signs like the one pictured in the original post, as it is a later fantasy item. "Such signage" as the OP pic was NOT in use in the 60s-70s, period. Also, the photos you posted are of completely different design styles than the OP pic.

There are a couple of ways to disprove me, one being a photo of OP sign in use. Don't waste your time searching for one though, none exist as it is a fantasy sign. And Dave, if you turn up a photo of your Harley shield in use, I'd love to see it.

As an aside on this topic, to no one in particular, sometimes defenders of fakes are innocent/naive. Sometimes it may be because they took a chance and bought something that was too good to be true. Sometimes they really got burned, but no amount of eye shutting, finger crossing & hoping will change a fake into real. Maybe a defender is just waiting to pass along the fake to an unsuspecting buyer. Maybe they are in cahoots with the fakers, or maybe they are the faker.

PS A pic of the OP sign should go in the Known Unmarked Reproduction column.

Very well said Ed.....

A great thing about an opinion. We are all allowed to own one...

Ed, since I was there and you weren't.... Interesting....

COTM 2007... Oilzum....

http://www.oldgas.com/shoptalk/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001707.html

1954 Magazine ad:



1957 Magazine ad:





1964 Magazine ad:



(and I supplied a couple images, before)


Strange that Bagley and White would spend "Tens of Thousands of Advertising Dollars" (probably, much more), in Magazine and Newspaper advertising for their "New Logo"... But, they never made any signs to be displayed in Garages, Gas Stations, Auto Service Departments, Auto Parts Stores....etc... To be displayed close to their "New Cans"....

So ensure that the Public, who were in such establishments, would/could relate Oilzum products to the "New Logo"...

Thanks for link to old COTM, but didn't see any sign like one in question above.

Bob I don't understand your posting, Ed is talking about the sign pictured originally in this thread and you supply numerous links and pictures of nothing similar. We should be comparing apples to apples

Maybe it is me... Maybe I am misunderstanding the question and Ed's answer?

I took Ed's answer to mean that all the Oilzum Oswald "Pie shape" signs to be fantasy.... I took down such signs in the 60s and 70s... And was told, I am wrong, that Oilzum made no such signs....

So I supplied examples of the "Oilzum Oswald Pie shaped" ads...

I supplied a thread that has a "Oilzum Oswald pie shaped sign in the background" behind the display case.

And I pointed out that Bagley and White most definitely DID produce signs with the "pie shape" to advertise their "new logo and products"....


Like I said, we all have our own opinions! And maybe I am not understanding, that happens more and more as I get older....

Of course they did, those signs from that era are extremely plentiful. I know Ed was referring only to the sign originally posted

Rick, what throws me off is the use of the word "fantasy" instead of the sign being a possible "repop"....

I have a can with the pie wedge logo. The second pic is a repop sign as you stated bob ( pre aged ) the one under it is real. Now that I look at the sign in question and my can yes they are the same new logo.

The originally posted sign has the consistent "double" left jaw line (on your right if you are facing the sign) that the fake sign does not have. The rest of the face on the fake is quite simple and plain. I'd bet that signs #1 and #3 are authentic. The print ads are not large enough to judge other facial features.

That's my .02 with an explanation.

I don't have any ties, alliances, or even disagreements with any one on this site, so I'm just going to proffer another opinion- if this continues to be a place where people are always "jumping on" other people for whatever reason, this site will dry up as people begin to avoid it. I, for one, do NOT want that to happen. I think too many people have put too much work in this endeavor for us to treat it this way. I spend my days in a Middle School-I have a full quotient of drama at the end of each day. I come here to learn and relax and enjoy. Please don't take that away from all those who do the same.

Amen!

It's real. Jaw lines and all that other stuff, it's real.Over the course of time in this hobby and I've been around it since about 84 it has changed tremendously. When I started signs were worth very little then. Matter of fact all petro stuff was cheap, very cheap. Well now, it's changed and we all know why. It is no longer a working man's hobby and many guys that collected dropped out or built up a collection and then sold out, recouping their investment and profiting from the ever rising prices. Then came the fake everything brought on by what.....you answer that. It has never been mentioned that could it be possible that some of these signs that look old and aren't exactly right are not fake,or repops. There has been mention of factory mistakes and they still make it out to the public. Is making signs such an exacting science that the public will go bonkers over one misplaced line? I doubt it. Hell guys even our US mints make mistakes on occassion and what happens then, they are worth more. I'm thinking here that too many questionable signs are being trashed by too few. There was no venom in my post yesterday just fact and like the man said, everyone has an opinion. It is real.

I really don't have the experience to form a serious opinion on this sign. But the "take-away" from controversies like this is that this sign is now tainted. Even collectors more experienced with these don't all agree, so that means I have no business putting my hard earned money down on a sign like this. Mark one more down on my list of signs, real or not, to stay away from.

One more lesson about how unmarked reproduction and fantasy items are hurting this hobby.

I have five different Oilzum signs in my collection that are dated from 1953 to 1980. Each sign is clearly marked by the maker A-M signs. If the sign is from this almost thirty year period I would think it should have some kind of makers marking on it.


Todd
____________________________
Wanted Invader Motor Oil

Its the real deal folks!!! Have one just like it that was passed on from my grandfather to me. No dates or sign maker and same dimensions. Cant stand this everything is a repop stuff!!! its getting as bad as playboy centerfolds are they real or fake???? Consensus is fake so signs must take after that hahahahah just because

HHhhmmmmm? Could we see a picture of your sign?

New to this bbb stuff. will get one up when I figure it out. It says my images are to big

The sign is a phony. Anyone who gets out and fondles, touches, molests, kisses, hugs and gawks at advertising will tell you its fake. Get out from behind the computer and go out and touch a sign this weekend. Pick it up ask questions, compare and learn. It doesn't happen overnight or even in 5 years. It is easy for the veterans to tell.

See you at maple grove, pa on Saturday or cow town, Nj sunday

I can not tell you for sure what is real or not but by looking at the signs and different adds shown the way the letters are leaning and space between them you should be able to tell real from fake.

wipumpman,
please keep trying to post picture of your sign,its easy once you figure it out.

After looking over all the info and a lot of differences in their various cans and signs I am not convinced that the sign in question is not right. Also the little vote in
another thread isn't overwhelming to me. I'm sticking with my original thoughts, it's real to me.

I am not a Oilzum collector but something makes me not like this sign for some reason. My opinion is to steer clear because it seems like no one knows the answer. With the market getting stronger more fakes will be entered into it as the demand for this stuff is high. Read Scott's post.

Cool sign but i would put my cash into the sign.
It seems like questionable signs are hard to sell unless you are trying to pull the wool over someones eyes on eBay.

Just my opinion. Not saying Real or fantasy, just buyer beware. Wish i could see where it was used. Looks like a tin tacker for a building but who knows.

Good luck

I think this post says it best.

I am usually a good judge of the items I buy. this one stumped me , the guy I bought if from said he would return my money if it was a fake. im glad this was put up for discussion, for future reference not only for me but the entire old gas community. still no concrete evidence one way or the other. thanks to all who weighed in on this post. not sure at this point what I will do with it. more than likely I will return it.

Not to be contentious at all, but it evidently is no longer easy for the veterans to tell as is evidenced by this continuing saga. I do like to think that I've handled enough signs over the past 20 years to tell an original when it is in my own hands, but over the past couple of years we have had those far more experienced than I to admit that they have bought fake signs "in hand." In the past we have based authenticity many times on opinions of those experienced, but as more and different items appear, sometimes the answer is not going to be known without hard, documented evidence.This continuing saga is proof of that.

[Insert smilie icon banging head on wall here]

Attention readers of this thread in the future archives:

THE SIGN PICTURED IN THE ORIGINAL POST IS NOT LEGIT, IT IS A FANTASY CREATION THAT WAS NEVER IN USE.

Forget jawlines, fonts, Oswalds five o'clock shadow, unrelated magazine ads, grandpas stories and anything else thrown in to muddy the waters.

Anyone voting in a poll that this PHONY sign is real has one (or more) they want to pawn off on an unsuspecting buyer, is deluded, or just wants to stir up controversy.

Tim, if seller is offering your money back, take it and be grateful. As an unmarked fantasy though, someone else will end up with it later on. Just curious, is seller a poster on this forum?

I hereby offer $50.00 US dollars to the first person that provides me with a bonafide photograph of the sign in actual use.

Thank you Jim for the use of this forum to educate collectors on fraudulent signs that are out there on the market meant to deceive folks. This particular sign has been known to Oilzum collectors for some time. Thanks to the many who don't want to be in the fray but have contacted me off the site and thanked me for speaking up and taking the arrows.

Now I'll patiently await that photograph.
[ insert smilie icons of crickets ]

Thank you Ed for your educated factual knowledge on this sign.

I often wonder if sometimes, we as collectors, let a few pieces of petroliana fall through the cracks, so to speak, because we think a piece is a repop or fantasy piece because the piece doesn't seem right or have never seen another one before. I think the majority of the time, we get it right but also think there are pieces out there we have never seen. Maybe some Mom & Pop or small advertising company made a few things for these gas/oil companies on a trial basis to see if they could get some market share. Its entirely possible!?!...... If I had to make an educated guess on the sign without seeing it in person, I would say it is a real sign based on the size and subject content (HD Motor Oil). It would be an ideal size for an Oilzum oil rack.

For what it's worth...there was this exact sign on Ebay this month. It was 800 OBO and sold for around 400.00 range. 161153249233. That was marked AM sign co lynchberg Va with a date. Same sign just got posted today which also has same makers mark and dates....I assume there may have been dated copies??? Anyone want to weigh in?

Someone got burned.... Sign is clearly a fake.. What a shame!

I am sure they are fake...about four years ago I saw many of these for sale on the 127 sale for $50 each...just because a sign is marked am Lynchburg does not mean it is right (most are)... fakes include this one...the slow down sunbeam school signs...fake shell DST reflective signs etc.

Sure glad I only collected Texaco and related. Just way too much BS out there for me. Thanks Erol Tuzcu & Keith J.(Puretex)...

Doug