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Posted By: gas pump freak Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 12:08 AM
There was an interesting post on this site that I read a couple of days ago talking about how there has been a slight trend to sell and collect globes that contain only one lens. The thought behind this, obviously, is that only one side of the globe is displayed. I'm not trying to come across with a "holier than thou" attitude but here are my thoughts on this: If one sided globes become acceptable does that mean that I should start restoring only one side of a gas pump due to the fact that only one side is seen? I equate these two scenarios as the same. Don't get me wrong, I realize that due to the increasing prices (value, which is good for our hobby) continue to climb at five times the inflation rate which means many people must limit the sheer numbers of globes they can afford. I do however think that "cutting a globe in half", for lack of a better phrase, makes our hobby a little less pure. PLEASE forgive me if I haved offended anyone with my view. Sincerely, gas pump freak
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 12:39 AM
Hey Freaky, your not offending anyone. the trend started out here in California. Because of the rarity of original west coast globes .a guy by the name of Ken Grant had a large collection and didn't really want to sell and a guy with a lot of moola said ,"Hey you can only see one side , sell me the other ". and that's that. if you have some rare globes it doen't hurt to sell half. and if you have your globe on a nice pump aginst the wall and can only see one side. why not. I have three rare Seaside globes that are one sided but there still worth half the value of a hole one. or more.
Now theres a new trend going around thanks to me about doing each side of a pump different and putting it on a heavy duty lazy susan , and its catching on. pump builders can make more money from their pumps that way also. Hancock on one side Phillips on the other, that way you have one pump and display two companys and use the space of one pump. how about that. ??/ have fun . don't worry . love Dwaine . a little wine don't hurt . eh. did i say all that. ???
Posted By: dodogas Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 12:57 AM
It wouldnt be the same as restoring one side of the pump, it would be the same as selling the door and trim off one side of your pump and pushing it against the wall.

For the record, i have never split a globe. I have a mixed pair of B-A lenses, was going to assemble as a globe but I dont want to end up a social outcast for doing that. They started out as 2 pairs of different lenses before I got them..if you want to hear that story I will tell it.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> >>Splitting firewood not globes in the frozen north..dodogas
Posted By: gas pump freak Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 01:03 AM
I suppose the lesser evil would be to put an original lens on the displayed side and a repro on the back (unseen) side, just shove that sucker as close to the wall as you can!
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 01:17 AM
ha ha ha ha , you can do that too, I'll still like you . just have fun. wheres my wine. Helga? you have my wine. everyone have a nice, safe, family day tommarrow. Jim give that Red headed baby a big kiss for me.
Posted By: Lastgas15 Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 01:19 AM
No offense taken.
Actually our discussion was about "cutting a globe in half" not neccessarily collecting single lens globes, theres a difference. I'm a globe collector. I prefer complete globes, but I buy alot of single lens globes, mostly for budget reasons. I recently added an Illinois Oil Co. That Good Torpedo Gasoline single lens globe to my collection. If it had been a complete globe I wouldn't have been able to afford it. Like Rex says, a collector will continue to look for another lens to complete a globe. I was able to complete two single lens globes this year. One was a KYSO, the other a PHILLIPS 77. Both globes are extremely scarce, so it was very satisfying to complete them. I know collectors that won't buy a single lens globe and thats OK. If I see a single lens globe I "need" I'll buy it and enjoy it, and hopefully complete it.
I have a question for the guys that don't think single lens globes are collectible. If you think complete globes are the only ones that are collectible, what should be done with the thousands of existing single lens globes?

As for restoring one side of a pump. I doubt anyone would do that, but what about the guys that do each side of a pump differently? Many collectors have limited space and/or money. Doing a pump differently on each side is great for them.

I disagree that prices are climbing at a rate five times that of inflation (at least in the past 2 1/2 years). That may be true on the very high end stuff, but prices on the mid-range items are fairly flat. Low end or entry level prices are way down. A perfect example is the Sinclair H-C globe that sold on ebay for $391 today. A few years ago that globe was selling in the $650-800 range.
Prices are up substantually from when I started collecting 8 1/2 years ago. The overall increase in prices has brought alot of stuff into the hobby that might otherwise have been scrapped. Thats good. The bad part is the increased prices have driven some people out of the hobby. The long term increase in prices is great for the guys that were in the "hobby" as an investment. Not so good for us guys trying to build a collection.
Bob
Posted By: LarryIvy Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 02:06 AM
just for the record, a friend of Dwaines had a gilmore globe like the one at the auction. He tried to split it and couldn't sell the individual lenses. He ended up keeping the globe together and selling it for twice the single lense price. A single lense globe IS like having a pump with a door and face missing on one side or only one side of a double sign, its worth less. Like Bob says, you are paying less than full value because you are taking the chance that you will be able to complete it someday. I agree with gpf.
Posted By: djhubba Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 02:23 AM
My Wife Ginni Married a half wit in hopes I will be completed someday. She Loves me none the less, but I suspect even more when I am complete...LOL
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hubba, i display OK until I am completed
Posted By: Jarvis Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 02:24 AM
Here is what was started... it's not about buying single lenses because like Bob said he will buy a single but will always be looking for the match. It's about guys taking complete globes off the shelf and taking out a lens and selling it. Most collectors I know don't have a problem with single lens globes but will keep looking for the match but this isn't the people we are talking about. I don't care what anyone does with there collections but i just can't figure out what would make a person want to sell off a lens out of there collection! I don't look down on guys that sell single lenses by no means because they do get broke and you just end up with one lens.
Me... I don't buy single lens globes and don't plan on it. I know Bob likes that I don't buy singles because he comes out ahead. LOL
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 03:07 AM
John. I'll sell you a single Seaside 1936 ethyl for 2.000.00 or you Bob, or you .
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 03:26 AM
The hole thing is , if you have a chance to buy something rare, even if it has only one lens, you won't turn it down if its in your budget. I saw Larry and his beautiful Time sign at Fred's. tell five guys that asked how much and Larry said not for sell. I was so proud of him, stand up tuff guy. then a guy came by and said I'll give you 5.000 for that sign right now, Larry almost spit out his teeth. the guy said see everythings for sell if the price is right. so if you globe collectors are showing your collection and you have only paid 300.00 for a globe and someone offers you 500.00 for one lens your not going to sell it . right??? you only show one side, think now. ha ha ha ha .
eat a lot of turkey and think.
Interesting topic,I enjoy it when someone like GPF speaks his mind it shows his-our passon for our hobby.
A globe collector told me he was out bid at a auction (high dollar globe)by two people who planed to split the globe up.He said he new one lens was going to be sold & wasn't sure about the other.He wasn't happy with the out come.I don't feel he would have been up-set if it was another collector.
Rare globes should NOT be split up,they are works of art that should remain complete.Rex


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Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 12:29 PM
Morning boys, Rex I couldn't agree more. Here's one for you. After, I just moved up to the hills, settleing my law-suit. running low on money , the wife working her butt off, my collection wasn't very large mostly the Seaside. Butch Greer stopped by. I had the globes for years not knowing the value, I had only paid 250.00 for two of them and 175.00 for two, I was offered 2.500.00 for one lens. I didn't sell, but I thought about it.
Posted By: Jarvis Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 01:14 PM
This has nothing to do with the guys buying the single lenses. It all about the people spliting and selling rare high dollar globes. Dwaine is a example... he just said someone came to him wanting a single lens but he said no.
Posted By: Ohio Oil Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 02:18 PM
I rarely get involved in most of these discussions but thought I would throw in my two cents. It seems to me some of you contradict yourselves. It's ok for someone to buy a single lens out of financial neccessity but not ok to split a globe and sell of a single lens out of financial neccessity? There is no difference. It's like saying the drug dealer is wrong for selling the dope and the buyer is ok. There are numerous reasons why someone out of neccessity would split up a globe. Maybe he needs the money badly for a medical emergency yet still wants to retain one lens as a remembrance. As prices continue to escalate in our hobby I suspect this will become more of a common practice. I have numerous pumps and signs, and am contemplating buying my first original globe this week. Guess what, it is a single lens globe. Someone must have sold of the other one at some point. I don't care, as others have said you can only display one side at a time anyway.
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 03:11 PM
Very well put. Dennis Griffin tried to sell the one lens, in order to pay for the hole globe. he paid 10.500.00 for the original Gilmore Blue green. in April. split the globe and tried to sell half for 8.000.00 but ended up selling the hole globe to a guy from Washington for 14.000.00, thats the part I don't like. but to each his own. have fun and collect what you want. eat well my friends.
Posted By: Lastgas15 Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 03:27 PM
Ohio Oil,
The discussion was about splitting a globe for profit, not splitting one out of financial need. Everyone I know would sell off their more common globes to raise money in an emergency before they would even consider splitting a rare globe.

Although I have alot of single lens globes, none have come from a globe that was split for profit. Whenever I buy a single lens globe, I ask the seller if he has the other lens.

There are thousands of single lens globes out there. Most are singles due to breakage, not greed.

I have a lens that is the only example known. I'll probably never find another lens to complete the globe. Chances are the other lens was broken in the 1920's. The lens I have is cracked. Is that lens collectible? You bet! I had to outbid one of the biggest collectors in the hobby to get it. Another well know collector wants to buy it.

Collecting single lens globes isn't the same as splitting a complete globe at all. You ask any true collector (a person in the hobby to enjoy and preserve history, not a dealer in the hobby for profit) that buys a single lens globe if they would complete the globe if they had the oppertunity and they will say yes. Many of the guys that buy the rare globes that are being split would have bought the complete globe if it had been offered for sale.

Collecting singles and splitting globes are two entirely different issues.

Good luck on your upcoming globe purchase. Be sure to post a picture of it in showcase and stories.


[This message has been edited by Lastgas15 (edited 11-27-2003).]
Posted By: gasgeezer Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 04:26 PM
This brought up another thought for me. I have quite a few rare globes. One is a single,cracked, one known, others have one cracked back lenses. how much do you guys think that the value of the globe retains by having a cracked back lens vs none at all? This would only apply to rare globes. I also have a very rare globe with 2 cracked lenses that I paid very well for and dont regret for a minute as I may never find another.........Thooughts?
Posted By: Lastgas15 Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 04:59 PM
Les,
On common globes a cracked lens hurts value alot. So much that many cracked lenses have little value.
Rare and desireable globes are a different story. If its just a crack, but the lens is complete I'd estimate a damaged lens to be worth 25-60% of what an undamaged lens would bring. Desireability of the lens means alot when buying damaged pieces. How do you determine value on the only known example of a globe from a company you collect? Often the satisfaction of owning a piece like that outweighs normal reasoning when determining what a collector would pay.

Technology exists to repair broken lenses. Its fairly expensive.
Posted By: Tom Stover Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Thu Nov 27 2003 05:21 PM
Great topic! If someone wants to split a globe or collect singles, I don't have a problem with it. I've been fortunate to buy some singles for a good price & later completed the globe. I like metal body globes & will buy singles or complete. As has been stated, you can only see one side at a time. As Dwaine says, HTH!!!!
I don't know what is so hard to understand about the spliting of RARE HARD TO FIND GLOBES. If you are like me and believe that hard to find globes are works of art and belong in Museums and collections, you would not split up a globe for profit. A true collector would not split up a globe for profit to buy a bigger boat.
Of course, I would sell anything in my collection if I needed money to help my family.
If someone were to split up a globe that there were only a few known to exist for profit, is not helping the hobby. They are taking advantage of two collectors that are working to complete a globe. Now, you might say "Wow, I helped two collectors." but in the long scheme of things and I don't mean a few years, you potentially could have split up the only known example of a Rare globe.
Of course this is just my opinion. I hope that everyone had a happy Thanksgiving and remembered the ones who made our freedom possible. HTH. Rex


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Posted By: Ohio Oil Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 03:44 AM
Even though I probably don't know as much as most of you and probably have a smaller collection than some, I don't exactly agree here. Are rare globes works of art? Yes. Do they only belong to museums and fellows with huge collections? No.
Posted By: Lastgas15 Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 05:23 AM
I think you're reading more into what was said than is actually there. Nobody said anything about huge collections.

It's strictly about splitting a complete globe for profit, rather than preserving it. That's an either/or question. There's no middle ground.
Posted By: Globes and Signs Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 07:49 AM
I don't think it's as much splitting a globe for profit as it is splitting a globe so a collector can enjoy another globe. I'll give a personal example I first bought a Dixie Vim Ethyl and then a Ranger Gasoline on a clear ripple. Ok each globe is about a $5000 globe, so that's $10,000 on two globes. Well I don't know about all of you, but I can't afford that!!! So I sold 1 lense of each one for $2500. That way I could keep 2 different lenses. So for me it comes down to this question. Would I rather have the same amount of money in one complete globe or the same amount of money in 2 seperate globes even though they aren't complete? Well to me that's an easy decision I would rather have the 2 different lenses. And in a lot of cases it has nothing to do with greed, just how do you want to spend your money.

And to compare it to having one side of a sign or only restoring one side of a pump is just wrong. Keep in mind that when you have only one lense the price does not drop at all.

I used to think it was stupid to split globes, but then that was back when globes were $500!!! I personally wouldn't split a lower end globe, but when you start talking about $5000 plus globes that's a lot of money.

Greed is people selling restored or repo items and not telling people. Or better yet greed is people making items not dating them and saying they are just for me and a few friends of mine.....THAT IS GREED, splitting a globe to enjoy another globe has nothing to do with greed.
Posted By: oillease55 Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 11:01 AM
Put me down as a nonsplitter. Ron'''''
Posted By: Tom Stover Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 03:41 PM
I don't think I've ever seen so many of us get so passionate about a subject on the site before! It's great!! Everyone has an opinion or view. I have a few globes (20+)and haven't sold or split one yet. If someone else wants to split globes, not a problem. I've had some healthy offers but haven't "crumbled" yet!! The globe would be gone, the $$$ would be gone & it'd be a sad story. Besides, I couldn't afford to replace some of the globes either!! Just my thoughts on it.
Posted By: Gary Drye Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 03:56 PM
Most of my opinions have alresdy been stated by others, so put me down as a non splitter also.
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 04:08 PM
Your right Tom. We are all right. but there are guys that will split their globes. just because their not true collectors but showmen.
This is just me guys my thoughts. A collector: a guy that goes to all the street fairs, swap meets, gas bashes, estate sales, buys from ebay as he can afford too. researches to find items from old distributors but buys what he likes. has been collecting for years and will not sale anything to a dealer thats going to turn it to make a proffit.
Then you have the showman: and buddy's we have them. that can afford to buy large collections just to say I have that. but he didn't go looking for it, or clean and paint it, or get up ay dawn to wait in line to git into a swap meet. or gas bash. but set back and buy a giant collection and not know anything about an item. well split a globe collection that he just bought to get some of the money back he paid. just to say look at what I have. and its all for sale at the right price. thats why I have all my stuff on disc's so if and when I kick off, the grand daughter, over seen by Ted , can have a large auction if she don't want the stuff. but right now, lets have some fun, do what we can for others. and Help the Hobby.
Posted By: dodogas Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sat Nov 29 2003 04:26 PM
The following I am sure is a familiar scenario to some collectors. You have a killer globe or globes. Some of your dear friends have made it clear that if you ever sell they want a chance at it.
Now the time has come you wish to sell or you have passed on. Each lense gets sold at what its worth to 2 of your respected friends or you sell the whole globe to someone you dont even know, to maybe never be seen again. Think of how they would feel when you sell it to someone you never seen before instead of offering it to them.

Personally i like to sell my stuff to good homes where I can see the stuff now and then, and see how happy and proud they are to finally have that piece. Somewhere it is truly appreciated...not just another jpg on an inventory disc..............dodogas
Hey sum great posts and opinions.Hope there are a lot more.
DODO - I am glad you have friends besides me.
DB - You no what they say "the worst thing about dieing is not being able to go to your own auction"****I told my wife not to charge a 10% BP at mine,but I bet she will.I wonder if they have repops in heaven? LOL Rex

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Posted By: huskybob Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 10:28 AM
Dwaine.... How old is your grand daughter ??
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 02:40 PM
Hannah is 6, and she loves all my stuff. She loves to get gum out of the gumball machine. she loves to set in the Barber chair, in the station and ask questions. but I don't expect her to keep the collection.
Posted By: Tom Stover Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 04:25 PM
Dwaine, don't bet against your grand-daughter not wanting your collection (or at least part of it). Sounds like she's already "collecting" memories.
Posted By: huskybob Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 04:46 PM
Dwaine.... Hannah sounds like a real keeper... I just happen to have an 8 year old son..... hmmmm....... and if Elvis would get with the program maybe little Seth could make an impression on her if she likes younger men.
Anyone else out there have any prospects for Hannah.....
Just kidding Dwaine, but it is great that she likes your stuff and we know she really likes her grand-dad..... how could she not.
bob
Posted By: Sinclair Joe Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 11:01 PM
Now I know I'm a bit late on this topic, but it's just too good not to jump in! Personally, I like complete globes. I also understand some collectors are okay with single lenses. It's still America, and their right to choose, whether it's for profit or not. If you don't like the arrangement, don't buy! I've bought single lenses myself, and can't sleep until I find the globe it's matching mate! I also couldn't bear to split up a complete globe that was a KNOWN "All Original" piece (meaning it was found N.O.S. in it's shipping box). From a purist point, it no longer can be "Totally Original" if a single lens is sold, and the other remains. If I have to sell a globe, I hope to always be able to sell them as complete. Complete globes are they way they were made, but if someone splits a globe and it makes two collectors happy, then who am I to say it's wrong. I'll always go for complete
globes...It's just the way I feel...
Posted By: bettin Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 11:16 PM
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[This message has been edited by bettin (edited 08-22-2005).]
Posted By: bettin Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Sun Nov 30 2003 11:17 PM
EVERYONE HAS RIGHTS AND NO-ONE SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THOSE RIGHTS………The beauty of any hobby is the collectors right to collect whatever turns him on. Our hobby is no different - barn hangers only? mint signs only? just oilcans? just Mobil or just Sinclair? signs only? Globes - whether partial or complete? The hobby is fun because most everyone respects the rights of others to collect what they want and how they want. INCIDENTLY, anyone that feels embarrassed having a single lens globe on their shelf, should call me - you can unload it cheap. Likewise, anyone that feels guilty having a single lens on the shelf they refuse to part with - call me - I might be able to complete that globe for you. PERSONALLY, I could use a few more of the rare Richfield lenses, whether in sets or just a lone soldier…..I’m only picky about condition, not the quantity. Thanks.

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Ron Bettin
740-774-OHIO(6446)
bettin@bright.net
Posted By: Lastgas15 Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Mon Dec 01 2003 12:56 AM
You're right Ron. No-one should interfere with someones rights. I don't think anyone has. We're merely debating the topic of splitting globes.
I have quite a few single lens globes myself, but I'd never split one for profit. I'm pretty confident none of my singles came from globes that were split. I don't want anyone splitting a globe for me to buy, but I too would like to hear from anyone that has an existing single they'd like to sell.
Bob
Posted By: Jarvis Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Mon Dec 01 2003 01:03 AM
I have talked to a few of the guys here that are thinking the same thing as me and this is what we are trying to say. Singles lenses are ok! The topic is taking a perfect complete globe and splitting it up weather it's for profit, needing money, what ever. It just seems hard to believe someone would split a good globe. I have a single even though I don't like them. It's a single because the back lens is broke. Lenses get broke, that is not what this topic is about. I don't know of anyone that has a single that wouldn't like to complete it someday. If some ones wants to split a complete globe... well they must have a reason. We are not talking about how awful it is to have a single lens in a collection and that you should sell it. This is a good topic and I like to here others view points on Splitting complete globes.
Posted By: Dwaine Buck Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Mon Dec 01 2003 01:31 AM
You got it John, we all would and have bought single lenses. And I as a collector would never break up one of my globes. but a dealer would if money is involved. I've seen Turlock Bob take a globe and split it just to make a few extra bucks. Steve Castilli bought 25 globes for 250 each split them and sold off the singles for 250 each. to some its all money. but like Ron Bettin says . this is America we can do what we want. and I agree. thats what I fought for.
No one is interfering with anyones rights here,what we are haveing is a discussion on the spliting up of hard to find,rare if you will globes.The opinions are not being used to formulate a law or code.Do what you must.
Naturally a traditional collector will have a different view than a dealer.HTH.Rex

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Posted By: T-BONE Re: Reflections regarding single lens globes - Wed Dec 03 2003 04:10 AM
THIS IS A GOOD TOPIC,, AND I THINK MOST POINTS HAVE BEEN COVERED.. TO SUM UP,, DO WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY,, IT'S YOUR STUFF,, HAVE FUN,, SPLIT A GLOBE,, PART OUT A PUMP, CUT UP A RARE SIGN FOR A REPAIR ON A PIECE OF FARM MACHINERY ,, OR KEEP YOUR HARD EARNED TREASURE TO THE DEATH.. DO WHAT YOU NEED,, SO YOU MAY LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.... AND HELP THE HOBBY EVERY CHANCE YOU GET................ `````````T-BONES 2 CENTS````````
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