I replied to a Value question on the "Peggy" that is being asked about...

I noticed figures being put forth, that are separated by a fairly wide expanse of dollars.. And have noticed this pattern for a couple of years now... And I have a suggestion and honestly, would like the Membership to discuss the direction of the "Value Forum"...

Here is pretty much what I wrote in my reply: with a couple of changes that relate to me posting this "New Topic" here, in the General Discussion Forum, not the Value Forum.. (hope that makes sense, but if it doesn't?..... most of you are now use to my ramblings)

"I am quite confused at times; And I must admit, this happens a lot since I reached a certain age and started "Over the Hill"...

But, being confused, really happens a lot here on Oldgas... Especially by the "numbers" being bantered in the "Value Forum"....

The figures that are being offered; Are they Values (what the item is actually worth) or are they potential resale figures?

This Forum started out as a "Value" Forum... What an item was actually worth... Now, atleast to me; This forum is becoming a "Resale Forum" where some Members make guesses as to what an item may bring at Resale...

There lies the problem, some of the Members (mostly those who are experienced and are actual Collectors) are attempting to give the asking Party, actual Values...

Whereas, other Members (mostly not experienced and those at are not really Collectors) are producing numbers that relate to what one may get if they Resale the item...

These conclusions of course are mine and mine alone... I do believe though; That more and more Members are relating the same concerns to this Forum. This is based on conversations I have with other Members and reading posts... Because of these concerns and how I relate to the figures I now see given on this forum; Is one of the reasons I do not "throw out" numbers... Nor do I offer to express an opinion as to the value of an item(s)...

If I may make a suggestion? Why not place a caveat with your numbers... Explaining if you are giving an actual value or if you are giving a resale figure...."

So basically a "flipper forum" to test the water's on the price of their item? Isn't that called Ebay?

Anthony, NO... Honestly I have to ask, did you actually read what I wrote?

I would like the "Value Forum" to go back to what it started as... A place where one would receive an actual value... Based on not 1 Ebay auction result, but based on the research actual Collectors have done... But, that "ship has passed in the night" and there is no going back... But, what we can do, is try an ensure that the numbers given are place in the correct context....

A good portion of those who have been in the Hobby, for more than a decade or two; have thousands of results from Ebay, Gas Show auctions, farm auctions and local auctions.. Sales among Hobbyists.... etc....

This is where they were/are coming up with their "values"... Now, too many Members are giving "values" from 1 auction... That is not a value, that is a "resale figure"....

I suggest that if one is giving a figure based on the results of numerous auctions... They place that caveat along with their numbers... If they are giving a figure based on one or a handful of Ebay Auction results, they give that caveat so the Member who is asking for a "value" understands what the opinion is based on...

Because when it comes down to it, it is always an opinion... But, some opinions are based on long time research; whereas others are based on 1 time, results....

The problem is value is just an "opinion". Just because it sold for XYZ on ebay or sold at auction for a certain price does not mean its worth that amount. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it on the day you go to sell it.

That's so true.

I recently picked up a case of 10 NOS Goodyear signs. All exactly the same condition. I sent them to auction and sold a few locally. This is what they brought.
225
165
85
65
325
175
175
175
225
300

How many people reading this think the Goodyear sign is worth 300 and how many people think it's worth 65. The value forum is moronic.

There are a few people out there that think the India made signs are worth 5000.

If you can't feel out the value of your sign on your own or consult with friend on your own. You need to get out of the house more often.

What you just described is not the value of an item...

What you described is a resale figure... And that usually varies from sell to sell....

And there is a giant difference between the two concepts....

Bob I agree with what you are saying. I think some newer members just want to post and really don't know what they are talking about when they give a value. or they look at Scott or Jacks book and think that is what its worth. I think the only way to give a fair value is if you have traveled to shows go to auctions and see this stuff first hand. setting behind a computer does not make you an expert.

I would say the GY signs are worth $191.50 ea.based on the info provided.

its all opinion... and everyone is going to base their opinion on their own experiences.

for some, that may be 40-years in the hobby. for others, 2-years.

but to get those opinions from each end of that spectrum will give you the best idea... and that is what the value forum is trying to achieve.

the market is made up of new-comers and veterans of the hobby, if you were to only listen to one end of that... you'll only know what the value is to a small portion of the market.

Mark what you calculated was the base line average price for the signs...

IMO, that is not, the value...

The value of such a sign would be to gather results from other auctions, private sales, etc... And then average out all the signs...

A lot of you know, that I worked in my Parent's Store and later before and after the Service worked for a couple fairly large "Brick Front" Auction Houses... When I started out, that is how we determined value... Based on numerous results of sold items in the same or as close to possible to the same condition.... This included the sales... A private sell between 2 Hobbyists is much different than a Farm Auction or a Barrett-Jackson Auction or Ebay....

I did some Insurance Evaluations up until a handful of years ago...

Even out in the "Marketplace", some Estimators for smaller Insurance Companies and smaller Auction Houses... Started using Ebay as their benchmark... Thankfully, the Auction Houses didn't last long and the small Insurance Companies started using "tried and true" Professional Estimator's instead of "In House" Personnel who had no idea....

I think the best thing for collectors is buying something you love to keep for a long time and enjoy it without seeing the money behind the item, that's what I learn after a few years of collecting, if you came accross something that you feel a bargain for you or if you have a crush on it, just jump on it buy it if it's a reasonable price and enjoy the signs on your wall

I know I have very rare signs in my collection but knowing how much they are worth didn't make me happier, I'm just happy to have the item as those are a trace of the history that I sadly didn't know

It is easy to throw out a number what a person thinks something is worth. I could say I think a sign is worth $1000 but if it was offered to me at that price, I may or may not buy it. If I wanted it for my collection, I might do the $1000. If it was for resale, I probably wouldn't. An estimate backed up with an offer may give a better idea? If someone would post in the value section, what's this sign worth and he gets an offer of $600, he would know on that day to that person, his sign is worth at least $600. I remember the thread on old Gas a while back about the guy with the box of NOS Johnson flange signs. It was easy to post I think those would bring $5K or $10K at an auction, but how many people could actually back up their estimate with an offer? No mater what something is "worth", if you cant sell it for that price, you could assume your estimate is to high?

I will now "shut up"! LOL

I am looking forward to seeing what direction this discussion travels!

I am enjoying the discussion and I hope all will give their honest input...

Bob,I am pretty sure Thermoman said he sent some to auction and sold some locally.Sent to auction could mean many auctions in many different areas.I don't know. IMO that group of signs had an average value of $191.50.That seems like a fair market value.IMO value and avg. price on 10 sales on an exact item are related somehow.We all know value changes for many diff.reasons.Again it's just my opinion for the very little it's worth.Mark

OK, Bob, you said: "I hope all will give their honest input".

IMO, "value" of an item is set what market bears (supply & demand rule).

Here is a good example when I tried get an idea for friend's 5-Quart Gilmore Can on OG:

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=319812&nt=2&page=1

Myself, never go to that forum!

Hen

As the Value forum Moderator, maybe I am a little thin skinned, but to call it "Moronic" is a bit harsh as many people seem to use it. Just becuase you don't like it doesn't make it moronic. I know I have looked at many items and felt I learned from the various contributor's comments, even for items that I am not interested in. As to your comment if people can't figure it out ontheir own or consult a friend comment...I thought that's what we were here on Oldgas....just a bunch of people hanging around and sometimes helping each other. I have found some items in various locations I have purchased based on what I learned here. And heaven forbid, I sold some of them and made a profit. The shame...I have even made them available to folks here on Oldgas....

And your comment regarding people thinking some signs from India are worth $5000. I think you most of the members here an apology. But, I have seen some signs from India that would have fooled me and I am grateful for the knowledge of the Value forum when these fakes are pointed out. (As well as the other forums)

Bob: I must be running low on coffee..I am not quite getting your concept of "value vs. resale." To me those numbers would generally be similar if not the same. I can think of exceptions, I know what a Texaco Truck door sign (Consignee, dealer, etc) is generally worth X amount, but I would pay more for one with H.J. Murphy on it as he was the local Texaco dealer in my town. But, to another Texaco collector they would probably pay less than I would if they valued it as just a Texaco truck door sign. Help me understand what I am missing.

Ebay prices alone don't make a value, but if you see a bunch of Texaco pump plates sell for $100 to $150..then based on the condition that would probably be a fair range....I like your idea of encouraging people to qualify why they fel that way on a price..i.e. based on what I saw in an sauction or ebay I think it is worth X amount. There are few absolute values in any of this stuff we buy and sell...mostly opinions.

i feel the best way to determine value is only based on auctions. What have people spent on that particular item and its condition? Historical data is all you can really use to produce the facts rather than using ones opinion (ebay completed listings / worth point)

Alex... To me a value, is a replacement figure...

As in a Member wanting to put a figure on their items for Insurance purposes...

Grabbing some figures from a few ebay auctions, does not fly! (based on my prior Insurance work)

When I give a value on an item; "My opinion is not based on "a bunch of items"... But, is actually based on a minimum amount of results, that I feel comfortable with that will give a true value... This minimum is not set in stone, as it changes depending on the item...

Example: Texaco pump plates are numerous and plentiful and as such, I most likely would average out maybe 100 auctions and private sells (I have contacted a number of Members, you included if I remember correctly? asking if the Member minds me asking for the sell price of an item, as the item was sold between 2 Parties on Oldgas... I record the selling price and use the results, when given, as part of my research...) To come up with a figure I believe is a true value...

Now on a Globe, that is not common... I used to check with Matthews Auction Company... I would check on the 'Net, to see past Auctions that were covered... I have contacted Scott, to ask him opinion... And all too often, I would not be able to give a figure that I was comfortable enough to state as a "true value"...

I am "old school" whereas it comes to this Hobby... I was lucky enough to learn at the knee(s) of some of the Founders.. So I tend to try to do things as they did... As such, I am not comfortable with the direction that the "Value Forum" is heading... I don't believe that values are given in most instances, now...

I am fairly old and I admit; that I am way too naive, I am afraid!...

As I would like to believe that most Collectors are interested in knowing what their items are actually worth... Whether they paid too much, paid too little or if they were correct in their idea of what their item is worth...

I don't want to believe that so many are only wondering; What can I get for this item, when I flip it tomorrow....

As I said; I most likely am, very naive....

All I can say is I Found the value section to be a Great Help to me thru what people posted and those who sent PM's. That maybe because some on the site know who and how long I have been around.

To Those Who Helped Me I Want to Say a Big Thank You!!!

On the other side "I just bought this, what is it worth? Not looking to sell." Evidently to you, it was worth what you paid.
SO, in Reality you bought something that you had NO Idea of it's value.

Seldom have I asked for a value on an item. A member will post his estimate & them PM an offer of 2-3X what he posted [w/o me even mentioning it might be For Sale!].

At best, any value provided is opinion based on one of two things:
-Personal experience or based on ones research. There is going to be a wide spread in the two.

-Human nature comes into play. Be it wanting the best deal (buyer) or wanting the most money (seller). Here, lies the problem is the value being expressed what you would pay to buy it for yourself or is it what you would resell it for?

Personally, I think an accurate value is what we call "replacement value". What is it worth in an open market with competition. i.e. at auction with other interested parties or in a retail environment.

How low one can grind someone, or how much advantage an experienced buyer can take of an inexperienced seller can not be the bench marks to use when determining value of an item in a open market.

I think some problems are inherent in the value forum by it's very nature and a level of dysfunction will always be present. Simply because, it is a fictional setting as value can only be determined by a buyer and seller in a real situation sale. Anything short of that is just an opinion. Because of the varying opinions some level of disappointment will always be present.

What I'm trying to say is that, you can't fix the value forum because it can never be a perfect forum. You just have to accept it...easier said then done because I'm one of the vocal guys there who on some days just can't ignore some of the silly values posted.

Couldnt have said it better Dave. You hit the nail on the head with a truly common sense answer.

Dave I do agree. I have been collecting for a long time. If I had a fire destroy my collection I would want what it would actually cost me to replace each of those items. Replacement value, which might be higher than I would normally pay because some of the items do not come up for sale that often. Now as a collector I set a value on an item which I'm willing to pay. That said I'm showing how long I've been in the hobby because I have not been buying much any more. I have not increased what I believe an item is worth to keep up with todays hobby. So what is the correct value? Replacement value or what people in todays hobby are willing to pay. I don't have the answer.

As the value form goes, I like it because I don't keep up with the changes like I should, and this gives me some idea of the range of an item and I educate myself every day. Richard

Thats the reason I do not post in the value forum, one because I am not educated enough, and two because I am a collector and it quite possibly could be a different value than what a buyer and seller would get.

The only way you can honestly give a "value" is by qualifying the figure you quote. Prices are volatile and capricious and sales take place in a variety of atmospheres with a variety of subjective forces coming into play. Kind of what Dave said.

We have seen this played out a lot recently in items offered for sale here-prices asked in the beginning leaking down as much as 30-40 percent with regularity over a period of days.

Because I wrote the Gas Pump books and my email address is in the book and all over my website, I get a value request almost every day.

If the person doing the asking is polite and details his request I try and respond.

Sometime I feel I should just tell them to go to Old Gas, but that would just putting it off.

The ones, that just give me the model number and ask the worth, I usually reply: Put it on Ebay for $9.99 the world will tell you what it is worth."

Even my book is not the best guide, I think more of it as being a identification guide, not a value guide (things will probably change for the 3rd edition). Plus, how can anyone put a value on anything you can not touch with your hands?

Jack Sim

Or asking Value for a dirty Sign. "It's covered w/ roofing Tar, but I think it will clean up easily/nicely"!

Happy Birthday Jack.

Gene
San Antonio

p.s. I have a question regarding a missing Eco Islander ID tags for my Islander I will email you soon.

Bob- its probably not worth getting your panties all bunched up.To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying there should only be one number allowed to be given? Collectable values vary. Thats why some people go deep sea fishing and reduce the price of their item 10 dollars at a time until a certain person buys their item and they make the maximun amount possible on each item.. Others put a low price on their item and sell in volume. If I'm not mistaken you say there is a range in prices with this quote right here.
"A lot of you know, that I worked in my Parent's Store and later before and after the Service worked for a couple fairly large "Brick Front" Auction Houses... When I started out, that is how we determined value... Based on numerous results of sold items in the same or as close to possible to the same condition.... This included the sales... A private sell between 2 Hobbyists is much different than a Farm Auction or a Barrett-Jackson Auction or eBay...." Bob, If it was my "estimate" of the value for the beat up horse that got you upset I apologize. I gave a value that, I must admit had a fairly large space between high and low values. Its beat up pretty bad- worse than most.- kinda hard to nail it down. I just didnt think it would bring what another guy said he thought it might bring so I put my two cents in. (Yes- "Precious Moments", "Roseville" pottery and other similar items have a tighter range of value. IMO) Really, that doesnt make either one of "wrong" we just have a different opinion of what they are worth. But that being said, I do follow the value of the cookie cutters as I own one, like them and I pay attention to each one that I see for sale. Be it at shows ,ebay or for sale privately and have followed them for a number of years.

Value to a very great extent is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it.

You simply cannot separate the two imo.

5 people go to buy the same car at same dealer & ea. pays a different price.

Exactly. 5 different people place a different value on the same item.

What something is worth is subjective.

I've often argues location affects values too. In the New York City area prices will naturally be higher than in a rural area. A sandwich in NY now costs $10 or higher...everything is more expensive around here.

very true Jonathan, "we definitely have our own economy" over here

. Lol , I agree also with you Mark .

All of this is just plain stupid. When this hobby was started we just went out and purchased items regardless of what we felt they were worth or what we should be able to sell them for.

This website was not started to give people the value of anything, it was started to give each other information.

Jim, just state, or eliminate anything having to do with value. I realize this is contrary to the books I write, but no one will publish my books without values (although this might change for the 3rd book).

This hobby is not about how much is this worth, it is about what part is missing from this pump, etc.

Why should those of us who have been with OG since it started (and there are very few of us left) be concerned about some guy coming on this site just to find out what something is worth.

Easiest way, just state, the goal of this site is not "values" it is to help each other identify, etc.

If something sells for a certain amount in the "For Sale" section, than that is the value of the item that day. Take it for what it is worth.

Let's go back to basics.

Jack Sim

How about change the name to this:
"The how much would you pay today if you decided you wanted this item and had the funds readily available to purchase it forum"

And there is only 1 rule.
If you dont know what you would pay for the item at the time of your posting, because you are concerned about it's value, then you are not allowed to post anything.



So that was actually sort of, kind of, a joke, okay? Everyone see's that right?
And of course, this is not a commitment! But only an honest, yet completely hypothetical response.

It seems giving your opinions on value is only acceptable if you're trying to sell books.

It's pretty simple, don't read the value section if you don't like it. The value section generates traffic (look at the number of topics and posts) and traffic is what pays the bills.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Value forum irritates you, I can make that forum invisible to you. Just click on "Contact" above and tell me you want to ignore the Value forum. I can make it all go away for you. But if you want to keep watching something that annoys you, that is a different story. But if you choose to look, why complain that you did?

well said...

I like the Value Forum. It sorts all that stuff OUT of the General Forum for me.

But telling people how to post a correct value is about like me telling the barber to just cut out the grey hairs.

Chuck

I personally would prefer the posts on the value page start one of two ways:

-what can I expect to sell this item for?
or
-I'm looking to purchase this item, what would you value it at?

Boy that's bad grammar. Anyway the first question would be more for the guys looking to purchase for resale. The second question is more from a collector perspective wanting to know what to pay considering condition, rarity, current market etc...

I know it's not a perfect solution but maybe there would be less bickering.

...I buy what I like, and can afford...I don't worry much about what an item is 'worth', so much as 'is it original and untouched?'...if I see something I feel is grossly underpriced but don't particularly enjoy, I'll pick it up - to lessen the stress the next time I see something I have to have, that's not underpriced...

...if you have to ask someone else 'what is this worth' every time you buy something, or consider buying something, you're not paying attention...if you have passion for this stuff, you can't help but absorb information about it...between the price guides, eBay, Worthpoint and the auction houses - not to mention the Oldgas archives - there's a WEALTH of information out there, right at your fingertips...very little of this was available 15-20 years ago - yet SOMEHOW we all muddled along, and bought what we liked/could afford/had the space for...

...it seems like 90% of the things posted in the value forum (1) are easily researched here or elsewhere, (2) in poor condition or uninteresting, and/or (3) are the same ten people asking 'what's this worth'...the few times something genuinely rare is posted, few people will give an accurate value, as they are potential buyers and there's a conflict of interest...

...I get it that there might be a few people who don't collect; who find this site on Google while trying to find out if the sign/can/globe they found/inherited/stole is valuable enough to pay for Junior's tuition/girlfriend's breast augmentation...but I've always thought Oldgas is most pertinent as a collector's forum - 'professional grade', if you will, and not as a watered-down version of 'Ask the Kovels' for the general public...

...I'll look at the Value Forum to see what's been found, and that's about it...maybe it is useful, at least to clear such questions from the other forums, but when I want to know 'what something is worth', I do my own research...

Well said, Mark!

Bingo... Gulfiend said it exactly how I would have said it!

I laugh the most when someone comes to this forum to ask what something is worth,right after they say they just bought it.

"Look Honey, oldgas members Say I PAID 4X TOO MUCH for my new sign"!
OR
"Look Honey, they said it's worth 10X what I paid the 94 yr old man. Glad he didn't know what it's worth"!

I never thought "value" was anything but what it would most likely sell for or cost to replace, which IMO is the same thing.

I don't think you can ever come up with that number correctly as it changes with so many variables. This is why I don't usually visit the value forum.

Why people that don't like the forum for one reason or another continue to visit it is a mystery to me. Seriously, if you don't like it, don't visit it. That concept can't be that difficult.

Hmmmmm, you guys crack me up sometimes (okay most the time....lol ! We obviously have a few very different opinions on this and that's okay because mostly they all count.

I'm on the fence with this one and don't completely agree or disagree either way however YOU have the option to look or not look, reply or not reply and that's the beauty of it so I'm not really sure why it's such a big deal....there are way bigger things in this world to be upset over !

To me...the forum is sometimes really helpful and sometimes it's just a joke. I have to admit I have used it a few times & here's my excuse

I have a folder with most of my "*****" cataloged with pictures and behind each picture is a multitude of research pages of value including Ebay, Worthpoint, Value Guides, Web forums, etc. etc and yes that includes Oldgas members comments from the value page, my insurance agent told me this would be very helpful if anything was ever to happen(god forbid) my shed, shop, house or myself.

Yes, it's a lot of work as I try to keep it updated every 6 months to a year. Is there an easier way, sure several, is it really worth the effort, heck I don't know yet but it's not something I'm willing to risk and besides it keeps me out of trouble !

So ALL that being said, I personally would like to thank the few that have given me feedback on some of my items.

To me the value forum has value ! I think it's said very well above "I never thought "value" was anything but what it would most likely sell for or cost to replace, which IMO is the same thing"

Whew, my longest post ever, I'll try not to make a habit of it lol ! Tx Z

Bob. This is a serious question, not an attempt to argue. Im confused by were

you ended up going from what you originally wrote. You told Thermoman the

average of all his sales of one sign did not represent the value of that sign. That

his number was a re-sale figure. Then you went on later to explain the value to

be an average number from other auctions and private sales. Are you saying that Thermomans average couldnt be the value because it is based on one auction?

Personally, I wonder how or if a person could get an accurate value estimate based

on averages from a variety of different people, places and forms of sale. One

person could never comprise a list of sales that would be detailed enough to be

an exact value. I bounce back and forth with the idea of a value on this

Stuff a lot. On one hand, there seems to be a ballpark average on items,

Especially signs. On the ofher hand, there seems many impossible to gage factors

that can dramatically change the price at which something sells. First, condition

Of an item is something people cant seem to agree 100% on. Some people,

especially with signs, like a little ware and dont mind paying an 8 price for a

6 sign. Some people are really picky and consider certain ware or damage

To be a value killer. Second, the sellers position greatly influences a sale price.

If a guy is desperate to sell, he will probably have to take less than he would if he

Could wait for someone to give top dollar. Third, the knowledge and financial

financial position of the buyer plays a role. I see extremelly wealthy people

decide they want something and pay what it takes to get it. Not what its

Worth. If a person isnt knowledgeable about the value they also may pay more

. There are so many different unquantifiable factors that dictate sale

prices. How could someone factor all those in thoroughly to find an

accurate average with items that sell regularly all over the country.

I agree on were you are going with the idea that the numbers people offer arnt

truly values. Most are simply different peoples personal experiences with an

Item or an average comprised from a small amount of past sales they have seen.

Personally, im not sure if a true value can be defined or not wih the current sate

Of things When i start to think they can be, I will then see an instance of

An item Selling and the price being more about what the person was able to get for it. At this very moment, there are so many new people that

Have gotten into petroliana. The internet allowed a hobby to become more of

Industry of sorts. Were all kinds of people buy, sell and trade for a

number of a different reasons. What used to be a kind of secret society of like

Minded enthusiast, is now a free for all with a variety of people.

The internet allows people, without leaving their house, to gain access to stuff

that wouldnt of been able to get before. Some people dont

Have the time, experience or even desire to go out and find this stuff. Which

makes it possible to have variety of different types of buyers. Dealers,

Serious collectors, novice collectors, decorators, and so on. All willing to pay

Different prices for a variety of reasons.

Can there be a true set "value"? How do we determine what that number is?

It kind of seems to me that at the moment its impossible to answer those questions.

Brian, reading your post; I don't believe you have any idea what a value actually is. Or what the term means...

I am going to jump to a conclusion: But I don't believe it is much of a leap to say, that you have never had your Collection Appraised nor Insured... If you had, the Professional that did it, would have written down, how they determined the "Value" of your items... And most of the "Good Ones" actually share the basis of where and how they "came up with their valuation"...

But, you are not alone; Based on the replies, I am jumping to the same conclusion, that most on Oldgas don't understand "Values"; How they are determined and how they are used...

And if you folks don't understand what an actual value is. And therefore have no idea how to determine the actual value of an item?... Then why are so many, throwing out numbers in the "Value Forum"? Why, not leave the "Values" to the Professionals?!

And that defiantly, leaves me out!!! I don't follow results of sales closely enough, to give values on the Forum... So, I don't give values, on the Forum... I do like checking out the Value Forum... As, I have seen more than a few items, that are not common to the PNW... So, the Forum helps me further my education in the Hobby...

Just because one bought and/or sold an item for X amount of dollars... Is not the value... It is only what you bought or sold the item for!!!!!!

According to what I have read,so far.

If 1000 Members bought and/or sold the same item and received 1000 different financial results. Then there would be 1000 different values....

NO, there would have been 1000 different results of Sales... But, not 1000 different values... A Professional, would take the 1000 results. Look at the different circumstances and weigh each and everyone... Throw out the excessively high and low figures... And then determine the "Value" of the item....

That is why I suggested that instead of telling someone what the "value" of their item is... You place the caveat of; "The last one sold at auction for"; Or "I bought one for"; Or "I sold one for"....

PS: I am down to a few thousand results of Sales now... I used to get a list of Petro items auctioned; From a few different Auction organizations... (Also, if I see a "private sale" on Oldgas. And it is of an item, I follow... I send a PM to the Seller asking what the final selling price was... I'm not interested, most times in who the item was sold to... But, "private sales" from Collector to Collector usually are very close to what the "value" of an item really is... Both sides have a real good item of what a "fair price" is...)

Now I get a much more limited results list on the different "On-Line" Auctions... An example that you could do now: Print out the results of, say Peotone Spring Auction... There are results of over 700 sales... Even some images of different items with prices... But, all one needs is a Auction Catalog and one can match up the numbers... You have a date of the Auction... You have a general idea of who were bidding, Collectors -vs- Pickers -vs- Decorators...

But... Most are too lazy, to do such work....

Sorry, I said I was going to shut up and stay out of the discussion....

Brian...don't let anyone kid you, nobody I know in the hobby has professionals come in, do market research and give them a valuation on their collection. Insurance companies don't even do that. The ones I've dealt with let you set the amounts, the responsibility is yours to prove that number in event of loss.

I was going to stay out of this and probably should. Bob is correct the only way to place value from sales is a lot of homework that very few are willing to do. Then after you think your there,condition and how rare the item must be factored in.
How many Oldgassers know how many fire chief pump plates was produced? (Just example). This one is easy there was alot,but I don't know therefore I'm not able to tell someone else what one is worth. If you are just out buying any company,or any thing that makes you excited,I don't see how you know value,or be expected to know value without a lot of years in this hobby under your belt. Take notice of the up coming auction listing Dan has just posted. It list a high a low and grade,now value is somewhere in between. Looking at what I just wrote I'm not able to give value,sorry life is to short and I got started in this hobby to late.

Reading all your posts is giving me a tremendous laugh. None of you know the "Value" of your items. Your all arguing about the literal definition of the word "Value".

There is no set "value" of any piece any of us own! Each piece has a "MONETARY VALUE". (The property of having material worth, often indicated by the amount of money something WOULD bring if sold). (Straight out the dictionary)

So the title of the forum should be changed to MONETARY VALUE to stop all the bitching.

Have a nice day.

I'm glad everyone is contributing... I don't always agree with what I am reading, but I'm glad the discussion is proceeding and hasn't been locked!...

The definition for VALUE (according to merriam-webster.com) is:

Full Definition of VALUE
1) a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged

Ain't no way I'm ever going to agree with an insurance appraiser on what "value" is, definition or conclusion.

Here's a perfect example:
A few years ago I had my truck stolen.
I looked under the Kelly Blue Book (you know, the people that basically all they do is put "value" on things)
to see what my insurance company would most likely be giving me for my truck in excellent condition.
The number I came up with was $9,700.
My insurance called a few days later telling me that since I paid extra for "full replacement value" they were offering me $19,240.
I asked how they came up with the $19,000 and he told me they look through all the current outlets for used vehicle
and determined that was the price I was going to have to pay to replace my truck with a similar truck in the same condition, mileage and options..
I asked them what I would have received had I not paid for the full replacement premium and they told me $9,350.

So, please don't accuse me (or "most on oldgas") of not "having any idea what a value actually is. Or what the term means" because we or I don't agree with your opinion.
I respect your opinion and where you are coming from, but because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I'm clueless.

BTW, just for fun I went on Kelly BB to see how much my current SUV was worth.
After giving my zip code and filling out 3 pages of condition and options,
they were able to pinpoint the "value" to $16,503 - $21,127.

So much for values.

My 1953 1,200 square foot, unremodeled house here in California is valued at $1,000,000.

It is only worth that because of what someone is willing to pay. (NOT ME!)

In other parts of the country, this house can be had for as low as $21,000.

This is just an example of the huge fluctuation in what someone values items that live in different areas across the country. This goes for everything that is bought and sold, period.

Now that's a perfect example of value vs worth.
I as an Oklahoman would find it ridiculous to even think about paying that for a house of that age and size.
However its all about location not true worth because there is no true worth just what someone is willing to pay.

Whats valuable to me might be worthless to another but I am glad there is a free value section and always grateful to those who take the time to give their opinions and advise .

There you go. Some sanity. Now all you lazy guys get back to work writing down all those auction , ebay and private sales valuations so we can find out the exact value of each and every item.

Can I get an AMEN!

What's it worth to ya.

100 on average but 300 if I'm selling.

Most of the new comers are too worried about getting burnt on an item that they have NO time to do any research. And by research I mean Google what ever it is they are looking for and if it doesn't pop up on the top two results. . .well here we are.

That's part of the problem, some did Google the item & Oldgas Pops up near the top & HERE THEY ARE!
VERY FEW will search Auction Zip, Proxi Bid or any where else. There are members HERE that are ebay or store sellers, but they will post here for US to do their searching.

And if you never look at the value section you wouldn't see the great Sunset Gasoline sign that showed up tonight..

As a noob here I'd like to offer a fresh perspective. I think long-time members here are way too worried about what people asking for values in the value forum are "up to." The fact that this thread even exists at all is quite a statement.
I'm personally not asking anybody to do any work or research for me. The problem with these items is that they're somewhat rare and they come in all kinds of conditions and completeness.
My two posts in the value forum for the Wayne 60 and the Gilbarco 96 illustrate that well. How could a rookie easily price items like those? Of course its worth what I'd pay for it, but it helps a rookie to see what everyone else might pay for it also based on their knowledge base. As of now my Wayne post has 102 views, but not even one comment. Quite different from other forums I'm a member of.

WE Do this thread approx every 6 Months, it gets more posting instead of just Reading others posting!

How hard is it to search ebay for completed Sold Pumps & COMPARE CONDITION of what sold & what your considering Buying?
What did the Other Forums tell you the pumps are worth?

I agree with DB. Not difficult to determine the value of Wayne 60's. Lots of listings on e-Bay and even on this site.

I actually did search eBay for sold listings with the term "wayne 60 pump." Tried it without the word pump. That helped me learn about all the neato Wayne Gretsky items. With 'pump' I now know what all of the little die cast miniatures go for...plus a few select Wayne 60 parts. The only two pumps that sold are in a totally different state of being than what I'm eyeballing. And even they had a $500 price difference. That's what I was trying to explain earlier.
What are the odds that I'd find a sold item on eBay comparable to the one I'm looking at? I doubt many 20 year old painted shells of Wayne 60's go off very often, but certainly users here could more easily put a range on said item that they might pay if given the chance to buy it. A simple "at least $600" or "not a penny over $1,200 because of all of the missing parts" would be better than nothing. Heck even "nice find" or "that's the wrong red" would be nice.
DB I haven't posted anything anywhere other than oldgas.

COMPARE what your looking at to unrestored 60's that have SOLD
WAYNE 60 oldgas