It seems that your standard estate appraiser can't/won't handle appraisal of petroliana. Specifically, restored & unrestored gas pumps & lubesters, gas cans, oil bottles, etc.

Can anyone recommend, or at least identify a qualified petroliana appraiser in the San Francisco Bay Area? Feel free to PM if you don't feel comfortable posting such info.

In September a large auction house out of New York City flew me out to Palm Springs, CA to appraise a $2,000,000 collection, consisting of items you listed. It also included a couple of cars, many signs and clocks, and a large variety of just plain advertising collectibles.

Jack Sim

The estate I'm handling clocks in at about $10.5m, but the bulk of that was his prized Ferrari which sold last month at $7.7m. I've had all the cars appraised really only leaving the gas pumps, an Eco Tireflator and a couple misc items which I suspect will come in somewhere in the $30-40k range total (best guess).

I'm trying to avoid paying expenses to fly someone in if I can, which is why I'm looking for someone local (i.e., driving distance).

If you offer Jack free beer and dart games he may just spring for his own flight.

How about if I throw in a baseball pinball machine for his troubles in place of dart games? No dart games in the estate...

Plenty of people down there that can identify prices, can't believe no one from down there is chiming in.

Neither can I, especially given the number of views this thread has had.

Dan Matthews with the Morphy's Auction House is definitely qualified for the job , he is quite often in Cali, AZ, etc. currently he is in the east but that changes daily,, call him, personal cell 217-259-7059 if you didn't want to go thru Morphy's..

There's a lot of guys in the Bay Area but in California you need to be a state certified appraiser to do this! Jim

I would have posted his office number... Putting his personal number out there?

Not entirely true. There are many kinds of items where you will never find a certified appraiser that knows anything about it. For example, name a certified appraiser that is an expert on antique, high wheel bicycles. As I was told by someone who has been before the court numerous times in probate cases, if your appraisal comes from someone who is clearly an expert in that particular field, their opinion will hold over a certified appraiser that doesn't know squat about the matter.

If you suspect the items are "only" about $30-$40K, post pictures on old gas. Unless it is a very rare/ uncommon/ unusual item, you should be able to get a good idea of what they are worth. Not sure why you need the $number. If for insurance or something, they may need it in writing. If you just need a close estimate so you can price and sell them, you shouldn't need a certified or written estimate.

Actual valuation number, as opposed to a range, is what is required to establishing the value of an estate and therefore the IRS's take in Fed Estate Taxes, if applicable to the estate.

A value range is fine only as a reference if the item(s) are to be sold (I should expect to between `x' and `y').

Where do get the "Certified Appraiser" license? Is the person you apply to more knowledgeable in the area than I might be? My specialty is gas pumps and air meters having written four books on the subjects and I have a working knowledge of all petroliana in general.

Does writing books make you a "Certified Appraiser?"

I really would like some answers on this subject.

Jack Sim

There's a big difference in writing books and compiling information. To simply gather literature from various sources and peruse through it and compiling that information into one source is much different than writing books. Writers create new pieces of work based on their own ideas. In various forms of literary art and creative writing such as novels, short stories, poetry, plays, news articles, screenplays, or essays.

Values differ from area to area so I don't buy into this whole idea of flying people in. Auction prices are much different then local sales in a particular area. Best bet, is to go with a local individual who is knowledgeable about the area in which the items are to be sold or liquidated.

The certification process is just a money grab in my opinion. It's a designation assigned to people for paying a an annual fee. Hardly a benchmark based on qualification/skill.

I can't answer what makes a "certified appraiser" in California. But, in your case, if you are the estate's personal representative in California, you would fill out an Inventory and Appraisal form DE-160 and Attachment DE-161. If you have an attorney, he or she can help you with this. You list the items and descriptions and then submit to the probate referee. There are two appraisal categories: 1) Personal Representative appraisal and 2) probate Referee appraisal. Just keep in mind that you only have four months from appointment as personal representative to submit these forms.

The appraisals would be based on fair market values. So, if you are not knowledgeable in the items, you can use an independent expert in the field. That could be a collector who is knowledgeable through their education, experience, and training. The referee could accept a collector's appraisal as long as you can show that the person can be considered an expert in the field. This person does not necessarily have to be certified. Oldgas is a good resource for knowledgeable collectors.

With some items, you can list them collectively and give them a single value. This would be for something like smalls or oil cans that individually don't amount to much or if you have a small collection. For example, you could say "Petroliana Collection - $5,000.00" or "Vintage Oil Can collection - $1,000.00". But for items that are considered "unique, artistic, unusual or special item of tangible personal property", you should list those items individually. Typically, that would be a collector car, coin collection, and unique antiques.

Again, consult with your attorney on how you should assign a value to the collection to be sure. By the way, this isn't legal advice. The information can easily be accessed from Santa Clara County Superior Court website.

Dave,

I really don't understand the part about writing novels, short stories, etc., what does that have to do with being able to value a number of items that pertain to a particular subject.

My knowledge does not come from only writing books, it also comes from attending as many as 22 swap meets a year. I have traveled from Missouri to Daytona Beach, to Gilette, Wisconsin, to Carlisle and Hershey, to Kansas, to Indiana, to Ohio, to Georgia, to California, to Michigan, most attending swap meets and others making appraisals. Doesn't experience count?

I still would like to know how you become a "Certified Appraiser?"

Jack Sim

Have you checked the real estate laws in California?

In California, the state Board of Equalization controls appraiser training and certification. They look at your training and experience as well as exam results. The certification is for real estate appraisal but also includes machinery and equipment. You'll find a similar agency in Missouri. Try looking up the Missouri Appraisers Board.

Thanks for that response, but it only applies if the estate is subject to Probate. Probate only comes into play if the total value of all title'able assets (bank accounts, automobiles, real estate, etc) which are NOT going to named beneficiaries exceeds $150k. For this estate, all of those items were retitled in the name of the Trust and therefore everything associated with Probate does not apply here. And as long as the estate plan executed an Assignment of Personal Property doc which flows all non-title'able assets into the trust (e.g., gas pumps, art, books, etc), those too are excluded from the Probate $150k threshold.

Also, what you referred to as a collective assigned value, that's what appraisers refer to as a `bulk appraisal'. A good example of where this is done is a book collection. No need to itemize out each title...just assign a value to the overall book collection.