Sold for $8500 I bet this seller is laughing all the way to the bank. 281667228493

...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Texaco-Marine-Lubricants-Sign-/281667228493

The sky is the limit anymore.

I really believe that sign to be a reproduction. There are at least 14 differences from my known original.

I know there are a lot of people on the fence on this one....if it is a repop..wow I feel for the buyer. Although it would be his fault, but boy of boy thats a tough one to swallow.

I asked the seller directly before bidding if he would offer a refund if this was determined to be a repo and this was his response....(below)... even if 100% real deal that is a crazy high price, unfortunately I may never own one.

Dear 63shelby,

63shelby: FYI. I've just added this to Texaco sign listings:

I have received a number of questions about the authenticity of this sign. I have no reason to believe that this is a reproduction. I will attempt to have its provenance determined, prior to shipping to the winning bidder.

Because of the number of questions, I will offer a money-back guarantee to the buyer.

Regards,
Tom

- coventrylad

The condition is what surprises me for $8500... wow,,, I know mint ones bring $8500 but that's a long way from mint, PLUS the authenticity of the sign.. I see Anthony Koban is showing one he recently bought and it is very early ( 1939 ).. I have seen dates from 1963, 1959, 1947, 1939 , There are a lot of different variations of the sign, some are "Marine Motor Oil" and some are Marine Lubricants" , this one is 15x30 single sided and there is a double sided 11x22 .
There are some expert guys on OLDGAS here that know the difference between original and reproduced. By that statement I mean guys that really know not just guessing or assuming.

from an outsider looking in... (since I have no prior knowledge or history of ownership with these signs) these reproductions are killing another great sign, and its disgusting & unfortunate to see. Suppose I was at a swap meet or even at guys house buying a few things and was offered one of these signs for a great price... I would pass on it. Just too much risk.

your exactly correct there Bryce,,, the Canadian Red Indian stuff is really that way anymore.. it's a REAL challenge buying and selling signs,, I do think if a guy is a $10,000-$50,000 dollar sign buyer he would be fairly well educated on the highend signs. On the same hand if a guy is a $100-$500 sign buyer then it doesn't really matter.

ps. the repo's of the Texaco Marine sign hasn't hurt this sign so much by the look of it. Maybe it works in reverse ?

I have the real McCoy that I bought back in the 90's for $3200 , dated 8-47 Made in USA.. it was too much money when I bought it but I like it a lot, even more now... LOL

sign of controversy: ...

I certainly wouldn't have an opinion on this sign looking at it from here.

sorry Wes, that is as clear as I could get his picture,
Real McCoy '57 model ...

lots of differences... even between Randy's & Wes's

Kevin, would you point out some of the differences?
also would you please post a picture of yours for comparison -
I don't see much difference between mine and the controversial one -
I believe the '59 should have the circle R trademark ...

Guys I am new to this...but when you look at the flags on the ebay one compared to Kobans, arent there some serious quality issues with the Ebay one. I am sure there are variations...but it just looks hacked. Similar to on the newer repro Socony Aircraft full size signs like the one at Dixie, the front of the motor looks like a bird poo'd on it. I think details like that are telling and one reason I have managed to stay on the right side of the fence many times when in doubt.

Mine is the exact same as Wes's sign. The ebay sign is just like the one Randy posted. The differences are:
1--Different color letters on speedboat
2--wake around speedboat is different
3--wake behind Suzanne is different
4--Flag on Suzanne slightly different
5--No lines on red deck of Suzanne on ebay one
6--Green water level is higher on ebay sign
7--Markings on big ship aren't the same
8--Anchor color on big ship is different
9--should be a wake behind the sailboat
10--Sailboat should have red on bottom
11--Sailboat mast size different
12--Buoy should have white wake around it
13--Markings on RH boat are different
14--TEXACO has a white outline
15--Date stamp in different places

I'm sure there are other differences, but these are the ones I noticed at a quick glance. Why would Texaco change all those small things in the 12 year span from 1947 to 1959? Even if they switched suppliers, I should think there would have been a requirement to duplicate it exactly? I can understand logo changes & such, but the differences here are just sloppy sign making in my opinion? If anyone really knows the true story on these signs, I wish they would speak up!

Here are a few close ups on my sign

these 2 texaco marine oil soldered seam cans were also drastically changed - why?
IMO all 3 examples of topic are alright ...

Here is a little tease,,,, LOL...

There's the Marine White I've been searching for for SO long....hint hint.

Thanks Kevin and Wes.. For the education. Awesome signs,Wes !! I also agree with Randy on the Circle R theory.

By 1957, Texaco had gone away from the "Marine" designation with a complete new can and had labeled their boat motor oil as "Outboard". I have seen these cans and complete displays labeled "Outboard". The old Texaco Marine cans had the same graphics as the Texaco Marine sign. Wouldn't the new marketing program have included the signage?

I thought this was discussed on here before.

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=223694&page=1

Check out this Texaco Marine Flange sign!!!
I have NEVER seen this one before...
Texaco Marine Flange

Wow, I missed that coming home from vacation. Sure would have liked to see more photos of that one.

The plot thickens.

here's the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Enamel-Sign-...p-/400888128006

Ha,,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,

Looks legit, foreign probably

Thanks Mark

you don't think the guy or someone bent the sign to make a flange out of it,,, the porcelain is all chipped where the flange is ?

No Wes the logos are equally spaced from the ends. Look at the last photo. Someone would have to weld a piece on, doesn't look like it to me.

I wouldn't trust it enough to buy it..

. That's what i noticed . Wes and Randy's signs are both really nice and they know that they are real ,amazing the differences you can see in them.

The one Randy has pictured is the one that was on Ebay for sale and the one in question...it sold for $8500.00 it wasn't his sign.. JFYI

Randy posted two pictures, of two different signs

exhibit A & exhibit B of signs side by side-
photo courtesy: Ron Gordon ...

Where's this Anthony Koban's sign ?

What signs are these that you just posted above me here Randy ? This has turned into freaking mess tiring to understand.

The 2 signs above (Randy just posted) were mine. Two different versions with two different dates.

1) I can't speak on the authenticity of the eBay sign.
2) Randy, Wes, Kevin, Anthony, and Me each have a Texaco Marine Lubricants sign in their collection. ALL are real - SOME are different.

Yes there are differences. I had concerns too, therefore consulted the opinion of an auctioneer who is a member here and very well respected in the hobby for many, many years. I value and trust HIS opinion. GUESS WHO....really?

STOP beating this sign to death. My conclusion is every TEXACO MARINE LUBRICANTS sign posted in THIS thread is "The Real McCoy" with the exception of the eBay one BECAUSE the pics are not clear enough and no one here had a chance to hold it.

I just hope the eBay sign is determined to be real as well for the $8500 buyer!!!

In the listing, after "condition" it says "metal put back in flange".
Sounds like the flange was flattened and then the flange was put back.

I don't think anybody knows for sure. They are probably all fakes. Everyone that has one guarantees theirs is real.
There sure is a place for repros in this hobby isn't there.

I don't know if you own one KZ1000, ( not likely by the sound of that last comment ). I know mine is real and if Kevin says his is real I believe him and Randy. So some of us DO know for sure, whether your knowledgeable on this sign or not, we are.
Your total comment on here on this matter is why a lot of guys are leaving OLDGAS, pure negativity .. insulting and uncalled for.

Ron-- Are both of yours dated and what would those dates be for each sign? Top & Bottom sign.
The only reason I'm still pursuing this is education for myself and anyone else that cares.

I care and will continue to follow this. so much uncertainty. (unfortunately)

Well after all this, I should have bought the $300.00 Repop 15 years ago,because I'm sure not laying out that kind of $$$ for a Maybe Real One, sticking with my Sunset Marine Boat!!!

1957 Can

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEXACO-OUTBOARD-...=item3cf8c94be6

Well I still like my real deal sign , if you buy the repop for $300 15 years ago and today it's worth even double $600 ( maybe )...
I bought an original 15 years ago for $3200 and today it is worth just for easy numbers somewhere between $6000-$8000 ,,, I like my sign better.. Original signs are still the best investment , been that way since the Mona Lisa..

I certainly don't have the experience to cast judgment here, so I've just been watching from a far.
But if I were to give my opinion, it's hard to argue with Kevin's evidence/logic of the logo change in 1957, and this sign is of course dated 1959.

If I did play in this high end game I may have gotten bit. Because I would have sworn I learned on Oldgas.com, that if the sailboat mast points at the "I", then the sign is good.

One thing of note is the thickness of the black circles around the stars in the upper left & right. In fact, it seems all of the black is more prominent on Wes's, and I'm assuming Kevin's sign.

...

ebay # 301627016577

This is real easy,,, ha,ha, back is a dead giveaway,, FAKE !

you guys are just giving the guys re popping these signs all the info they need to get them as correct as they can. I just don't get it ??? On some posts the least said about specific details of a sign should be a point. Wasn't it really the point of these posts to try and stop or slow down and hopefully end the confusion on a lot of these posts instead the posts are helping the bad guy and hurting the good guy. I don't get it.

auction stopped ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEXACO-MARINE-LU...T-/301627016577

How can you have a discussion and posts if you don't talk about it and tell what's right or not ? " I don't get it " either.
It looks to me that maybe, just maybe, OLDGAS is working ,, looks like the guy lost his bidders on this sign in question. ?