http://cgi.ebay.com/50s-GULF-GULFPRIDE-GAS-OIL-RARE-20-ROUND-PAM-CLOCK-/260814584195

...this pretty much settles the argument over whether or not one should take an old Pam case and add a new face to it...

There must be a lot of uneducated buyers or fake bidding going on. Some of these clocks bring some serious cash and most do not even look good.

I've got to admit.....I didn't know anybody was making 20" glass faces? But, I agree it's new.

FYI emac1507 and Treasureray are all one in the same seller. Home towns are the same New Albany and read the disclaimers they are exact "Treasureray's disclaimer" All sales are final, sold as-is, where is! Athough I try my best to describe the condition, authenticity or age of an item, I do not guarantee it! Your appraisal of the condition of the item(from the photos -description) may be completely different than mine. By bidding you hereby agree to these terms and conditions. If you are not completely satisfied then DO NOT BID! Ask all questions before bidding! "Emac1507 disclaimer" All sales are final, sold as-is, where is! Although I try my best to describe the condition, authenticity or age of an item, I do not guarantee it! Your appraisal of the condition of the item(from the photos -description) may be completely different than mine. By bidding you hereby agree to these terms and conditions. If you are not completely satisfied then DO NOT BID! Ask all questions before bidding! You would think if you were going to deceive buyers that you would be smart enough not to use the EXACT same description and use different home towns???

Can you report this to eBay? Can eBay do anything about it? I know there's a report item under the seller's name box but what options do you select?

Here is a guy that sells decals for Coke to put on the face. item 290560304221..plus others Mobil, Shell Amoco.. etc. What about this Harley Clock, looks fake to me item 200624341065, and this Hurst Clock face looks too white to me item 190545416002.

He says theres new ad glass on the Harley clock.

I've been to the guys house that is selling the harley clock (i bought a coke button sign from him) and he buys pam clocks and puts new add glass (or stickers or whatever) in the pam clocks and resales them. He is upfront about it and from what I see in his listings he discloses that info.

His ad is VERY decieving about it being NOT REAL, a little line that says "New Ad Glass". If was honest and upfront he would LOUDLY Disclose it is a fake clock rebuilt from an old case. Not advertised as a "Vintage Harley Clock"

I should rephrase that, he was up front when the first thing i asked about the clocks was if they were restored with new add glass. I agree that he should loudly disclose that it is not the real deal. I was just letting people know what he was doing.

I heard that treasureray and emac1507 are the same a while back. It is to my understanding that treasureray has more than a couple of ebay accounts. His buddy Lacie51 also has another ebay account Pickin4cash. It's not an uncommon practice for people like them to have more than 1 account. Just my 2 cents

"all original, new ad glass"
dont those contradict each other?

Don I agree-treasure and emac same thing

Bud, I have actually bought a decal from this vendor. Decals arent as troubling as the plethora of new add glass for Pam clocks-if the body of the clock aint mint, the add glass shouldnt be either, nor bright white.

There are many other ebayers that use 2 or more Ebay name to deceive uneducated buyers. Here are a couple Superflex Moonbeam From Lafayete In. . and Service station from Lafayette In. . The descriptions and titles are EXACTLY the same 40s SERVICE STATION AIR PUMP SIGN GAS OIL TIRE DISPLAY again you would think they would be smart enough to at least make the auctions look different from each other. These VINTAGE air meter signs are coming out of the wood work. I see there is 2 sellers from Kentucky selling the same signs. Sad enough that some sell for 200.00 to 300.00 Buyers beware!!! If you look at their feedback they have sold dozens of them, if you are ever in doubt look at the sellers feedback to see how many of the same items they have sold as VINTAGE in the past. Treasure Ray has sold over 200 of the brass side walk markers here is the description of one of the dozens of different ones he sells "This is a 4" all brass street marker sign for Pepsi Cola with "double-dot" that is marked 1933 underneath. Also has the National Safety Marker Co. name underneath. Unused with minor tarnish. Letters are embossed. Even though it is dated 1933 I can't authenticate the age as it may have been made later". Yes because it was made later, like last week by the seller!!! And all 4 of the sellers we are questioning live in Indiana less than 200 miles apart???

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60s-GULF-GAS-TIRES-BATTERIES-LIGHT-UP-CLOCK-PAM-/260844505865

...I wouldn't call this a 'fantasy' piece...it's a NIGHTMARE piece...

...just more fake garbage...someone needs to buy this thing, and slag his feedback rating with a particularly nasty negative...and he's a Top-Rated Seller...Way to go eBay!

That is horrible. Can't believe anyone would think that clock is original. Does anyone know if these guys vending at a major event?? That's the best time to confront this *****.

Thats a Gulf logo I have never seen ! lol

Don,
How do you tell if the the air sign is real?

Couple of way to tell first he has sold over 200 of them in the last 3 years and I'm sure he did not find over 200 of these air signs or 200 of the brass side walk tags or Dairy Queen lamps or Sun drop Pam clock faces and the list goes on & on. And second here is a seller that says he is having the EXACT same sign made at a foundry Air sign

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60s-GULF-GULFPRIDE-MOTOR-OIL-15-ROUND-LIGHT-UP-PAM-CLOCK-/250897271805

...is this considered forgery?

The best way to combat these sellers is to do what everyone is doing right now, put the info out there.

Lacie51 and T-Ray have gone around and around here and on Cheese's site, trying to convince collectors that the "knock-off" items they sell don't impact the items in our collections.

Of course that is pure Bull. Every time a collector whether new or experienced gets burned, it hurts us all.

We lose "new blood" because they don't want to get "hurt" again. For a collector who is looking to sell, it puts a possible "cloud" over their items and their reputations.

A ton of people "lurk" on Old Gas. It is unbelievable how many people contacted me because they saw parts of my collection and/or read postings I had made on this site.

People who haven't joined the group or who are thinking about collecting read about vendors, original items vs repop, values on items etc.... Each time a fraud is brought to the attention of the membership, it is brought to the entire web.

There has always been a section of the population who wants to profit by "counterfeiting" original items. Some last and some do not. Before the 'net, info on these sellers was very slow to get to the masses. Now it is instantaneous. Everyone here has helped get the info on these sellers to those who share our love of these items and the hobby.

Everyone should be proud of themselves, IMO.

more bs, different day, two month went by
same face, different clock body, glad we kept the link on the 1st one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60s-GULF-GULFPRI...=item3a6aa48bfd

...that clock just brought $428.72, including shipping...

Deja-vu?? eBay 260884372572

What are you to do with a clock with the face paint off of it? Are you saying you should never replace a clock face or just not sell it unless your up front about it.

You are correct, An advertising clock is collectible because of the face, the back can section does not make it a collectible clock, they are very plentiful. There are Many Many "cans" that have new, reproduction faces installed, THEY ARE NOT ORIGINAL CLOCKS ANYMORE, and the more of them that get out there will continue to ruin the values of the originals that have survived.

I collected backlit clocks in the mid 90's. And will occasionally buy one still. I had/have about 40 or so. Some pretty good ones too. I remember the sinking feeling I got the first time I realized I was looking at a reproduction face on an old case.This was before they were everywhere you looked. A dealer I knew at Indy Ad refused to agree with me that the Dr. Pepper clock he was selling for 400.00 wasnt right. Since then the value of my collection went into a nose dive. Really took the "feel" out of them in general too, when you see tons of them all over the place-like a dime a dozen. So Yes, put me on the side that says it totally sucks to put a new face on an old case.

Check out http://www.waynesneonclocks.com/ he has the pam faces and any other part for them.

With the way reproduction is going and all of these people who don't know the difference, the market for signs will collapse. Sell!! Sell!! Sell!! I can hear Jim Kramer now on mad money pressing the buttons left and right.