Do real Shell pump plates have Made in USA on the bottom,white backs and split grommets?I got asked the question and had to say,"I don't know" because I don't have a real one and don't collect much Shell.or that matter,are split grommets still a solid indicator of authenticity?

Thank you for your thoughts.

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This is a real one,NOTE--4 grommets,repops have 3.These are split on the back.The back is black and "USA" on bottom front.Repops are white on the back,at least that has been my experience.You see a lot of Shell pump plates in yellow on ebay,all with a white back and 3 grommets.Originals never made like that or in yellow.Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Nice pump plate hawkike

FROM THE APPLES AND ORANGES DEPARTMENT.

Pictured here is the pump plate about which Old Iron is actually inquiring.
There are two versions of this sold on eBay at present.
One is an obvious reproduction and sold as such for around $25
The others that match this one exactly command around $200 to $350 and are sold as genuine 1940s Shell issued plates. One dealer - nekbe - has recently sold two of these, has over 15,000 (yes, that's thousands) feedbacks, guarantees that he does not sell reproductions, and always has some pretty nice stuff up for auction. I might add that the only negative feedback I saw on him concerned shipping and not authenticity.

The reproductions offered on eBay have smooth grommets, but the one in question here has the older style "daisy" brass grommets. It does not have "made in USA" at the bottom and the back is indeed white (like many other genuine pump plates, e.g. Good Gulf, Texaco, etc.)

Again I mention the temptation to quickly condemn an item without actually seeing it or conducting some research.
So, the question remains, what does this community of experts think of the plate pictured here?

Like Frank, I've never seen a yellow Shell Pump plate... PCM shows a yellow plate with a tab on it from the 20s....

I have seen larger Shell signage (approx 2'x2') that was yellow, but not the smaller signage that was meant for a pump.....

Now I do own a repop Shell sign from the late 70s, early 80s(sorry I don't remember the exact year I picked it up).... I keep it because I was "taken" and it is a reminder.....

Here are a few photos of it taken a few minutes ago:

How about that! That is the plate we're talking about.
It might just well be an older reproduction and some of them are surfacing as collections get sold through estates and what have you.
How do you know for sure that this wasn't an authentic item?

Nekbe has in fact sold reproductions in the past and he refuses to respond to e-mails. I have seen reproductions go through his auctions.

Shell, on their pump plates, used 4 mounting holes.....

My sign looked/looks perfect... good color, almost perfect details.... For 30 years I was on the fence about it.... I had some Collector's who were positive that it was correct... And then a Shell Collector looked at it.... He picked it up, weighed it in his hands... Looked me in the eye and said.... Sorry.... Should have 4 mounting holes....

He told me; the sign looks very good, the split grommets are age appropriate, it is a heavy fully porcelain pump plate.... that is a fake....

When I joined Oldgas, I asked about it and received the same bad news... LOL

After looking at "PCM's Guide to Pump Restoration" and "Encyclopedia of Petroliana".... I see similar looking signs .... and damn it they all have 4 mounting holes.... LOL

I've never gone by just the grommets as I have a newer repro that has split grommets. I always thought original Shell pp's had the Made in USA at the bottom, but that small type could possibly have been missed during original production on a plate or two in the 30's I would guess.
I hope we are not helping the repro people, as has been stated before on Old Gas, with pointing out what makes these repros incorrect so they can make a "better" product.
On the other more important hand, I know these posts are helping to save actual COLLECTORS, not decorators and the plethora of new fly by night "pickers", the heartache of paying too much money for a reproduction sign. I love seeing posts like this and hope that all the members of the site take advantage of this particular section of the forum. I know I didn't look at it for a long time and now know I missed out on tons of information by not checking it out.
Darin

Guys, something I observed and question is the following. Would it be safe to say that known originals of this pp always have black backs? All of the originals I've seen for sale have been black.....
Darin

Well, fooled again. Fortunately, eBay made it good through their resolution center as this was posted as "vintage."
Again, as stated before on these pages, I give up and I'll stand pat! I'll keep what I have, but I am not going to add to or upgrade my collection any longer. These charlatans have ruined this hobby. I'm confident in most of my stuff as I've had some pieces as many as 40 years before the flood of cheap junk hit the marketplace.
Besides, as others have noted, the fun was always in the chase and there's not much to chase out there any more; especially from the 1920s & 30s which is mainly all I collect anyway.

Reproduction,a common $15.00 to $25.00 sign.I have had conversations with this ebay seller,he swears they are original.Yes indeed ORIGINAL repops.Shell made bigger signs in yellow and a few are dated-1929 etc.Original pump plates are red,4 grommets,made in USA at the bottom.Ask Butch Greer from Oklahoma about this!

Shell did make a Yellow 2 sided "paddle" sign but that is an entirely different sign,not a pump plate.

Well, there you go.
Old Iron was right as usual and I trust he's pleased.

My original Super Shell PP has no made in the USA mark on the bottom!!! Red with 4 grommets!! Jim

Jim, what color is the back of you sign?

Black
Every Super Shell I have seen has no made in usa mark! Jim

Jim's sign is Black on back as was my SHELL ETHYL, mine wasn't marked Made In USA.
SHELL AIR double sided, GOLDEN SHELL MOTOR OIL rack sign Yellow Back.

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Well you have seen one now,the back is black.Excuse the camera flash.

Mine is like the one in Amistadis book pg 70!
Must be more than one vendor!! Jim

I think you are right since yours and this one are obviously the real thing.
Frank