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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
carolinaskies #613322 Fri May 15 2015 02:16 PM
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I was asked to move this to non-petro because of the nature of the sign, but I believe the gist of the topic relates to advertising signs in general and that would include gas & oil signs!
This is a topic of great importance to many collectors of Gas & Oil memorabilia and should be discussed. Remember that discussions on specific non petro items, needs to be done in the non petro area. Thanks

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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
BryceG #613328 Fri May 15 2015 03:05 PM
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I fault the auction house for their usage of "light coat of clear coat"

Otherwise, I'd say you were out of luck.

They oughta offer half back for incorrect "light coat" description imo

And yeah, I'd only buy a clear coated sign cheap in the future...


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
DCpate #613330 Fri May 15 2015 03:22 PM
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Bryce, Sorry for your pain. In my opinion though, I think that the auction house wording was adequate. I'd bet that they had no idea of this issue? How many buyers out there would strip the clear off a porcelain sign? Probably not many? Personally, I detest buying something at auction, unless I have inspected it the day of the sale. As for the responsibility of the co-signor, a sale is a sale is a sale....it ends with his presentation of the item to the auctioneer. You might not like this. I have been a co-signor in many auctions, and any issues with my items are accepted once bid on. At auctions you take chances. Sometimes you do well and sometimes not? A law of averages. Paul www.severngaspumps.com

Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
gulfiend! #613332 Fri May 15 2015 03:37 PM
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NEGLIGENCE OF THE AUCTION HOUSE!! The item was described wrong, plain and simple..


Good oil cans don't wait for people, people wait for them.
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
Dave's Garage #613333 Fri May 15 2015 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave's Garage
...I don't think you acted foolishly. Anyone of us could have been exploited by those pictures and that description. However, I'm not fully convinced that the auction house has done something wrong because they could have also been deceived by the appearance of the sign.



I agree with Dave.
If you were fooled by the restoration it's possible they were too.

Even if you could have convinced the auction house to set aside their terms and conditions I think you sealed your fate when you altered (stripped) the sign.

It's easy to say the auctioneer should refund your money, but what if they really didn't know? Maybe the consignor knew, maybe not?

What's the difference in value between the unrestored condition and the perceived condition at which you based your bid?


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
Lastgas15 #613350 Fri May 15 2015 04:44 PM
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Sure the auction house could tell it had been partially restored. They have a sign expert on their staff. They should offer some compensation, or a full refund.

Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
66phillips #613352 Fri May 15 2015 05:07 PM
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Can we see the item and the auction house info?


Thanks, Phil
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Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
gulfiend! #613354 Fri May 15 2015 05:22 PM
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If I may add my 2 cents: You can threaten the auction house that you will contact your home State Attorney General's office. One of their responsibilities is to protect their home state consumers regarding their purchases, regardless of where purchased. If the auction house knows anything about consumer and business law, they will not want to deal with an AG. Your home state AG will contact the AG of the auction house state. If they are held liable, they will be forced to make it good and can also be fined. If you don't get satisfaction doing that, then make a formal complaint to your AG. If you don't have a local office, call them by phone. Should find them in the State Government section of your phone directory. They will mail you a packet to fill out and return with all information. I guarantee, that if you have any possibility of a satisfactory result, they will get it for you. The best thing about it is it's FREE!

Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
philmccauley #613363 Fri May 15 2015 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: philmccauley
Can we see the item and the auction house info?


https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/36046687_hp-hood-and-sons-milk-single-sided-porcelain-sign


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
K W FRITH #613365 Fri May 15 2015 06:44 PM
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Butch is right! They have a sign expert on staff and whether they knew it was restored or not, they are responsible for the listing.
They should be responsible for a refund and getting compensation from the consigner is their problem because they accepted the consignment.


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
K W FRITH #613371 Fri May 15 2015 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: K W FRITH
Butch is right! They have a sign expert on staff and whether they knew it was restored or not, they are responsible for the listing.
They should be responsible for a refund and getting compensation from the consigner is their problem because they accepted the consignment.

They have a VERY detailed disclaimer but they leave the door open for returns under certain circumstances. While not specifically spelled out, I doubt they (or anyone else) would accept return of an item that wasn't in the same condition as it was when it was sold. So unless it can be proven that the auction company knew the sign wasn't as described I think the best Bryce can hope for is some kind of compensation for the difference between the selling price ($1500?) and whatever it's worth in the current condition. Dan Morphy doesn't seem to care what people in the petroliana hobby think so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to remedy this situation.


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


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Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
Lastgas15 #613379 Fri May 15 2015 08:25 PM
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It has been decades since I studied "Contract Law"... But, if I remember correctly?...

As Bob (Lastgas) mentioned; since Bryce altered the item he won and paid for..(the sign)..

All actual and implied Warrantees on the item that related to the Auction House; have been voided... (not even sure if the terminology I am using is even close to being correct.... I am getting so old!)

Furthermore, if I am not mistaken? It is the same as if Bryce had won a Globe. Then determined that the Globe was a repop and not as represented at the time of Auction; But before returning the Globe to the Auction House and/or it's Representative.... The Globe was inadvertently damaged/dropped/broken...

It seems to me, that the item has lost all value, as it pertains to the condition of the item at "point of Sale"... (when won and paid for)

We have enough Members who actually did something with their Education... To correct me, if I have strayed too far off the "correct" path....

As my First Sgt.; stated when one member in my Platoon asked what recourse He had, relating to the returning of a Used Car to the lot He bought it from? After the Trooper had been involved in a pretty serious accident within hours of buying the car....

The First Sgt. answered: "Son you are SOL"......

Unfortunately Bryce, I think you might also be, in the same predicament....


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
Bob Richards #613395 Sat May 16 2015 03:17 AM
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the auction house got caught. They knew what they had refund the man. Often these online auctions steer a little south of the truth just to make a sale.

Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
carson #613402 Sat May 16 2015 06:09 AM
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Lets see a picture of the sign now in it's present state. By looking at the pictures online it looks good to me and I would have bid on it.

Re: Am I a fool or was I mislead?
Lastgas15 #613404 Sat May 16 2015 06:20 AM
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I do not blame the auction house as I have no indication that they knew anything was wrong with the sign, other than what they stated in the description. Whoever "Restored" the sign probably did it the way they did for a reason? I would like to see a picture of the sign after the clear was stripped off to see how bad it actually is. As for the auction house inspecting the sign more, to what level should they go? They also sell cars, should they be expected to know and state if there is any bondo in the left quarter panel of a 1958 Chevy they sell? Or know if the engine was bored out 0.030 over?
If the auction house knowingly misleads, bad on them. If they accurately describe an item as they see it after taking a reasonably close look at it, where is the issue? And if they missed something that the buyer does also, who is to blame?
Yes, the auction house could give a full or partial refund, but that could also open them up to any and all unsatisfied buyers wanting refunds if they later have buyers remorse. The auction company is the middle man, as long as they described it to the best of their knowledge, I see no issue with them.


US Air Force Retired, 1981-2007
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