Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Help on setting a Texaco Curved Pole

Hey guys, I'm going to be putting this pole up at my property and wanted to know if there is someone here who has done this before that could answer a few questions. I've been told I need a 4ft x 4ft x4ft hole dug, concrete filled with J bolts sunk 30 inches into the concrete before it hardens. I've been told these specs are what Texaco uses, but I don't have the actual specs.

Should these J bolts be true J bolts, or L bolts. Also, what diameter? Do they need to be galvanized or not? Is Quickrete OK or do I need something else?

Any good videos available on raising one of these poles? I found one but it didn't talk about the prep work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I've never mounted a sign before, but I know that most anchor bolts are the L bolts that you are refferring to. You do not want to do it with quikcrete. 4x4x4 in concrete is 2.4 yards of conrete. That equates to 100 80 lb bags. My back is not intersted in mixing 100 bags of quikcrete plus I would be concerned with cold joints. I would call a readimix concrete supplier and order 2-1/2 yards. In addition to you anchor bolts, I would want the bolts connected to rebar inside my pad.

Here are some spec a friend (B/A Murphy)got that he used on his B/A sign. These specs are from an original 1954 Texaco sign pole detail sheet.Hole is 30" square and 4 1/2 ft deep below grade. Wire mesh cage for reinforcement along with a template made up to make sure the 1" x 30" long bent anchor bolts would be in the right location once the pole is set in place.These are also his pictures.

You may be stuck using quickrete. The redimix companies around here now have a 8 yard minimum purchase! If you go the quickrete route get a couple bags of portland cement o mix in to richen the mix a bit.

The smallest amount you typically can buy is one yard from a ready mix supplier.And then usually 1/4 yard increments up from there to about 10 yards. I think your thinking of any thing under eight is subject to a light load charge, Bob.
The size and depth of your footer really , or technically I guess you would say, depends on your soil but 4x4x4 is a pretty good size chunk of concrete. Hows the dirt around your place?
If it comes out to a hundred bags then that about 400.00 bucks or so. Plus you have to go get it and move it around and all... For around four hundred and fifty you can get three yards of footer mix delivered. I'd say Dig it a little deeper and just order three yards.
The pole will want to list towards the heavy side or outward side of the sign in the future. Like a lever, if you put lateral? pressure <> (wind,gravity) it will want to cause the sign to list. The deeper you go, (with proper reinforcing to combat cracking)the harder it will be for mother nature and father time to move the lever. The reinforcing cage pictured looks kinda light duty. I'd say at least 5/8" rod 12" oc each way.

Nice pole. I agree with JimT. Cage looks very light duty to me. Don't forget your conduit for lighting if not wanted still stub a 1/2" or 3/4" pvc 90* elbow in it. 24" down is good.

Good Luck

This topic was covered years ago and the original spec sheets were posted. Dave

So, can you buy cages like this or do they have to be made from 5/8 inch rods? Wasn't even aware we needed any steel reinforcement....just though the concrete cube alone was sufficient. They sell 1/2 rebar in 2 ft segments at my local Lowes...I could just get eight 4 ft segments of the 5/8 to build the vertical outside of the cage, and then use rebar ties to place a bunch of the 1/2 inch 2 ft segments horizontally, right? A 2ft x2ft x 4ft cage would be ok if I dug a 3ft x 3ft x 4ft hole right? Could I just use 4 12 inch tomato cages tied together?

The soil has some clay and is pretty rocky. We sit up on top of some mountains.

I originally told the concrete place 4ft x 4ft x 4ft and they said between 2.5 and 3 yards. There's a fuel surcharge since we're under 4 yards, but even with the fuel charge, we're still less than $350 to pour.

Jim, We've been on 1/2 yard increments since the early 70's. A few years back a couple of big regional redimix suppliers bought the local suppliers. They went from a 3 yard minimum to an 8 yard minimum. They'll still haul light loads as small as 1 yard but we pay for 8 yards.

You're making this way to complicated, you don't need a cage. I've been in the sign business for 34 years. I've put up everything from small monument signs, billboards to 100' high rise signs.

Normally the only ones with drawings requiring cages are between 75' - 100' in height.

The majority of billboards along the interstate have no cage. I have seen some installed with sand only. The vibration from the wind causes the sand to trickle down. Intern it gets very tight.

This is the way I installed mine. I used 6" dia. 1/4" wall pipe & 1/2" plate. Cut the plate to match the pole base & torch matching bolt holes. Weld the plate to a length of pipe between 42" - 48" long. Stick bolts thru the bottom of plate & weld, they will act as studs. Weld a couple scrapes of angle to the pipe to insure it doesn't spin in the hole. Auger a hole 20" dia. the depth of your pipe.

Stand pipe in the hole. Pour quikcrete in dry & tamp. Should only take 3 - 4 bags & it will hold. Provided you not in swamp land.

A little scrap steel, $15.00 worth of quikcrete & your done


Cliff

Sounds very light coming from a gate installing point of view.

I guess its apples and oranges, but, to me auguring and pipe and torching and welding all seems more complicated than digging a hole and tieing some rod together. I, too have been pouring footings for over 35 years on every thing from mail boxes to the Quicken Loans Arena. Up north nothing (or just about nothing)is poured with out steel or fiberglass reinforcement. I guess whats easier for some folks is tougher for others.I dont want to start going back and forth but I know one thing for sure. Those steel poles and signs are heavy and the banjo's have the weight cantilevered out to one side. With narrow diameter hole, the sign almost surely would take to leaning eventually. Unless the ground is almost always dry and hard. Sure there may be short cuts but a concrete guys general rule of thumb is that many times you dont know if you went over board with your job but you ALWAYS find out when you didnt do enough. Im pretty sure a cylinder 20" wide by 4 feet deep is about a third of a yard. Thats a lot less than four yards but its more than 15.00 dollars of concrete.

Tomato cages aren't strong enough. Use rebar. The 5/8 vertical and 1/2" horizontal cage as you describe should work.