Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion 'Restoration' vs 'Customization'

At the National Air & Space Museum (Smitsonian) aircraft are RESTORED to flight condition. If a part is missing, and must be fabricated, it is done with materials made to ORIGINAL SPECIFICATIONS, with equipment of the ORIGINAL PROCESS, and finished with ORIGINAL FINISH. What this means is, no high tech alloys, milled in a CNC machine, treated & finished with modern high tech coatings, such as powder coating. The part is to be made with the older type of material, typicly machined on a manual machine, then finished with what was used at the time of its original manufacture. THEN stamped with the word REPRODUCTION.

With this definition of RESTORATION, almost all of us, fall into the CUSTOMIZER catagory. (sp?)

How many people out there, make their decals with the original process used in the early 20s, 30s, or 40s? Aren't most of the modern made decals, computor generated with sophisticated graphics programs? This is not meant to be taken as any kind of insult, only to direct a train of thought. How much would we all miss out on if ONLY ORIGINAL parts, decals, and signs were used in a "restoration"?

More power to the people that can go with a totally original restoration. They certainly inspire me to reach for a higher level of expertise and authenticity. But there will always be, somebody that will question a restoration. Numerous times, I've had people tell me that my work was inaccurate. Then when I showed them the reference materials that I had worked from, often photos from the flight tests, there was some sort of excuse.

As far as a true restoration of a pump? Original red paint sprayed at the factory, decals applied, brand change or color change was usually done with a roller, OVER the original decals, possibly 2 or 3 times, drips, runs, and all....

This is TOO deep to take personally. Restore to YOUR level of satisfaction... 'nuff said...

[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 11-08-2005).]

Maybe only a few restore..

But Many, repaint, refurbish, do-up-a-pump, redo, custumize, doll-up, etc, etc,

I like my pumps Gutted. When I was doing that Bowser 310..I gutted it and through the stuff in the junk pile. My buddy Vern likes his stuff complete and asked me about the pulley from the guts. i told him it was in the junk pile and if he wanted it i would bring it to him. I did, he was happy because the one I gave him was straighter than the one on the inside of his pump. I was happy to help but couldnt help thinking that its TRUE, ones mans junk is anothers treasure. I love Vern and am honored to call him my friend but I really wouldnt want to help him move...LOL I would but might get Dawn to work the fork lift ...LOL

------------------
Hubba: GAS GEEK , OIL FREAK and humble moderator

I guess I am a customizer, I would get bored painting almost everthing red all the time. I colorsand and buff all of mine and take them apart to the last nut and bolt. But I come from the car world and when you restore a care you actually over restore 9 times out of ten. To do a 100% resto is phisicaly impossible. You cant even get the same materials. As far as people that picapart other peoples work they are generaly jelous or worse yet dont have or cant do the same Quality work. Anybody that puts forth an effort to redo a pump should be proud, of what they acomplish. And anyone that knocks it should get a life and a differnt hobbie. If everone had the same taste what a boring world this would be.
Brandon

Here's my 2 cents worth. We restore to a customers specs. Like it or not.....they pay the bills around here. Personally, I have a handle on what sells best......restored/custom pumps are the ones that move. I have done a few pumps in my 11 years in this business and have never had a customer specify that the pump be a perfect factory restoration......much ado about nothing, in my opinion....

I think Brandon and Paul said it best.
"Anybody that puts forth an effort to redo a pump should be proud, of what they acomplish."
"I have a handle on what sells best......restored/custom pumps are the ones that move."
"......much ado about nothing"

Someone had asked if anyone thought collecting repro globes was what the hobby is about. The answer to that is YES. Different people view the hobby differently. I like my stuff original. I don't even like repainted metal globe bodies. Other guys will clear coat everything they have right down to quart cans. I know guys that have shelves for of repop/fantasy globes and they consider that collecting petroliana. One guy even said my original globes are ugly! To each his own. Its a big hobby, do with your items as you see fit. If owning a fantasy globe or a "customized" pump puts a smile on your face then what's wrong with that?

I'm a newbie to OldGas; this is my 1'st post. I have 2 pumps, a Tokheim 39, restored/customized to Texaco Sky Chief, and a Wayne 866 I'm currently restoring/customizing to Texaco Fire Chief. I don't really care what you call it, restore or customize; I do them the way I like them. Maybe my pumps have more chrome than original, or some pinstriping not done by the factory, but the Sky Chief wears the correct color silver because I contacted Tokheim and obtained the original paint formula, and my 866 will be an "original" 866, not a "60" with a clockface conversion. At Hershey this year, I saw a Sky Chief 39 for sale for $2500+, and the color wasn't even close. Also saw several 60s converted to clockfaces, but with the wrong sides/set back handles, etc for over $4200. Yes, I made some comments about this; I don't think that's nitpicking. Whatever you do, restore or customize, it should be done right.

Just my humble opinion.

I DONT USUALLY GET INOT DEBATES ABOUT "RESTORATION VS CUSTOMIZATION BUT I MAYBE BETTER RECLASSIFY MY POST FROM A COUPLE WEEKS AGO CALLED RECONTRUCTION PROJECT. I GUESS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CUSTOMIZATION PROJECT. WHAT REALLY IS REPRODUCTION AND WHAT IS RESTORATION. WHEN WE STARTED OUR PROJECT WE WENT AS FAR AND HAVING ALL BEAMS ROUGH SAWN AS ORIGINAL BUILDING WAS THE TWO MAIN AWNING BEAMS ARE HAND HEWN 12 X 12 THE WINDOWS CAME OUT OF AN 80 YEAR OLD HOME TO BE "ERA" CORRECT BUT ALAS THE DOOR IS ONLY 50 YRS OLD AND THE FLOOR WAS DONE WITH PLYWOOD FIRST. TOSE WERE NOT AVAILABLE 80 YEARS AGO. THE SHINGLES ARE NOT ASBESTOS AS WERE THE ORIGINALS AND THE CONCRETE PIERS THAT THE BUILDING SETS ON ARE NOT LIKE THE ORIGINAL WHICH WERE JUST STONES PILED UP. PROBABLY WHY ORIGINAL BUILDING LEANS SEVERELY. PUMPS HAVE BEEN DONE AS CORRECTLY AS POSSIBLE BUT WOULD NOT EVEN THINK OF PUTTING AN ORIGINAL GLOBE ON EITHER OF THESE PUMPS AS THEY ARE FOR THE PUBLIC TO ENJOY AND WOULD CERTAINL;Y NOT WANT AND ORIGINAL GLOBE TO PROBABLY GET BROKE. THE NUMBERS ARE NEW DECALS AS ARE PUMP SIGNS BUT FOR MOST PEOPLE THESE ARE REPRESENTATIONS OF WHAT THE ORIGINALS LOOKED LIKE. SO I GUESS PUMPS ARE CUSTOMIZED ALSO.BUT TO THINK THAT ANYBODY WOULD SAY IT'S NOT NICE OR "ORIGINAL" WE HAVE NOT HEARD A PEEP. MOST PEOPLE ARE PLEASED WITH OUR PROJECT AND WE HAVE HEARD NOTHING BUT COMPLIMENTS. EVEN THE "ANCIENT" ONES SAY THEY "REMEMBER WHEN" AND THATS WHAT THIS HOBBY IS ALL ABOUT SO PEOPLE CAN ENJOY WHAT WAS AND WHAT IS NOW. I THINK MOST HOBBYISTS DO IT FOR SELF SATISFACTION AND ENJOYMENT FOR OTHERS. DO WHAT PLEASE YOU AND THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.

Lastgas15 - I think you're exactly right. One of these days "prettier & shinnier" won't be the objective. You're also right - "customized" pumps sell for more money. I've seen "restored" pumps for fantasticly high prices that don't even have a pump in them but they sure are a lot easier to move around inside your house.
In 1940 a "restored" car had a fresh coat of brushed on paint, new brakes, a set of Western Auto $6.00 seatcovers and maybe a new set of rings. By the '60's - if you wanted to win in an original class in a car show, you had to have paint that looked so deep you could swim in it and every bolt cad plated. By the '80's - it went the other way. Now you have to have the paint actually look original and even the assembly line chalk marks on the engine block exactaly like original. I think that's pushing a little too far.
I still like "pretty & shiney". However, sometime we do things for other reasons. I'm going to do a brush paint job on my Fry 17 Mae West that we used on the farm from about 1947 until 1965 because that's the way my dad did it on that same exact pump. I know that I'll be thinking of him a lot while I'm working on it.
p.s. - he made me dig the hole for the underground tank (mattok & shovel work) when we moved it 2 times when I was 13 and 17. I won't ever forget that.

Wow, a lot of good opinions all over the board. I personally like to restore my pumps to how I might have done it had I lived through that era. If that means it had more shine than anybody elses gas station, so be it. It's my made up gas station anyway. HA HA. I love pumps no matter what they look like. ~Jason

My attempts at "restoring" pumps involve doing some things to the parts that probably weren't done originally as well as making compromises for missing parts that cannot be found. For one thing, today's paints are quite an improvement over those of yesteryear. I'm not interested in using the original type of paint on my pumps as I want them to last a long, long time. Often, the original nuts 'n bolts are next to impossible to find and re-use like on the Gilbarco 96E I just finished. 5/8" bolts? Square nuts? Give me a break... Wiring is improved in this era, too. I had to compromise to make a door glass/ad glass combo work as no one offered one single piece that was tall enough. I looked for an external shroud piece for the hose retractor mechanism to no avail, so I'm going to finish that section off in a way that won't detract from the pump itself. Yes, I hope to sell it to someone who will get a lot of enjoyment in having it with as much original stuff on it that has been painted or powder coated as I can put back on it. Does anyone do an exactly original pump? I think not.

I guess I like to sit on both sides of the fence depending on what I have to start with. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a pump, soda machine, classic car, or signs. If the condition I receive it in is all original with a nice patina, I don’t touch other than a light cleaning and replace any missing parts with originals (as long as I can find them). Original, untouched in mint condition seems to bring a premium with any antique.

On the other hand, if I get an item that’s been through the mill and missing parts, I’ll redo it in whatever colors and style that fits my mood at the moment. When possible, I’ll restore, otherwise I’ll customize.

In fact, I’m working on two 50’s style soda machines right now. One of them is so original it looks like it was pulled off the factory assembly line. I won’t touch it! The other machine looks like it just rolled out off Monster garage with extensive custom paint and modifications. I enjoy both equally as much.
Chuck