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Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when #374820
Tue Dec 04 2012 10:36 AM
Tue Dec 04 2012 10:36 AM
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Connecticut
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BIGFOOT Offline OP
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Thnx in advance
I am sure this has been asked before.
When did Mobil change from Gargoyle to Pegasus?

I recognize there was a transitional period where possibly cans and literature might show both but what is the time frame?


RIP Kiwi
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Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: BIGFOOT] #374822
Tue Dec 04 2012 10:47 AM
Tue Dec 04 2012 10:47 AM
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MI
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Wheres Darin??... He will know for sure! I think it was late 20s, or very early 30s. Because some the early mobil shields have a date of 1933. That is what I know.


Looking for any cans! PM me what ya got!
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: BIGFOOT] #374823
Tue Dec 04 2012 10:47 AM
Tue Dec 04 2012 10:47 AM
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So. Ca.
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RANDY
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: advertologist] #374830
Tue Dec 04 2012 11:23 AM
Tue Dec 04 2012 11:23 AM
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Adelanto Ca USA
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I have a 2 sided flange sign, says motor spirit obviously foreign. Thick porcelain, one side is Gargoyl, this side porcelain is worn from age, other side has a very early design of Pegasus horse, white pegasus against red background. I believe this Pegasus is from 1913

Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: 56chiefstar] #374835
Tue Dec 04 2012 11:37 AM
Tue Dec 04 2012 11:37 AM
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Stockholm, Sweden
fast66 Offline
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IMHO the first Pegasus' and Gargoyles are symbols used by two different companies, and used in parallel.
After Vacuum and Socony joined in the early thirties the Gargoyle was used for oil and the Pegasus was used for gasoline. I would say that the transition period to use Pegasus only was just after WWII.
In the US it can be seen on some of the oil cans (small shield) and in Europe some of the signage advertising Mobiloil used a large Gargoyle and a small Pegasus on the same sign appr 1947, and the year after it was a large Pegasus and a small Gargoyle. In 1950 it was a Pegasus only.

So in short, just after World War II ...

br
Claes

ps. in the same time Mobil also changed from Serif text to sans serif. ds

Last edited by fast66; Tue Dec 04 2012 11:42 AM. Reason: ps
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: fast66] #374837
Tue Dec 04 2012 11:46 AM
Tue Dec 04 2012 11:46 AM
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Cincinnati
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I agree with all the responses.
I have cans that date in the 30's 40's and 50's and i see the pattern as mentioned.
I have one can in the 40's that has no gargoyle on the round litho but on the lid of the can, it has a gargoyle. I believe this can is in the late 40's. But you must remember the gas and oil businesses pretty much had different logos for a bit.


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Collecting Mobil and other graphic quart cans.
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: mcguffeyd1] #374867
Tue Dec 04 2012 01:27 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 01:27 PM
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Thnx Guys
OK
So maybe there is an oil VS gas distinction.
Which is interesting too.

Let me ask a slightly different question
Are there MOBIL signs before 1930 that have the Pegasus as the "symbol"?


RIP Kiwi
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: BIGFOOT] #374927
Tue Dec 04 2012 04:38 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 04:38 PM
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I think you've pretty much got an answer from the responses above, but I'll add a couple of my observations. I believe the use of the Gargoyle on signage ended very quickly after the adoption of the Pegasus as the unified company's logo. Vacuum Oil Co. concentrated on lubricant production, and as mentioned, Gargoyle was/is tied to the lubricant side of the business, not gasoline. I talked with a man a couple months ago who works for Exxon/Mobil and they still use the Gargoyle term for some products.
At any rate, I believe by the beginning of WW2 the Gargoyle was phased out on cans in the U.S., which is in line with Claes' statement. In all of the advertising for the war you will see the blue ringed cans with the larger Pegasus at the top. I would guess that the can mcguffeyd1 mentions is probably the blue ring version with a Gargoyle lid, which I have seen before and is not from the late 40's, but the early 40's. I would be surprised to see a red band bottom version can with a Gargoyle lid.
I think the Gargoyle logo lived on internally in the company for approximately 20 years after the S-V merger, but was not used on packaging for public use or for marketing reasons. Pictured below are a couple of letters from 1946 as well as a performance report from September of 1948 showing the Gargoyle logo. (These are all internal documents or letters to station owners, not public documents.) None of the papers I've collected from the 50's show the Gargoyle logo anywhere, but as I mentioned above, the name itself does still live on within the Exxon/Mobil Corp.
Short answer to your last question, if there are "MOBIL" signs before the 1930's with the Pegasus is no, as they would be Vacuum Oil Co. signs since they pre-date the merger. I know that's a specific answer but I wouldn't consider it a Mobil sign, but a Vacuum Oil sign, which is "Mobil-related". I could go on but that's a short answer to your last question which could be a lot longer, lol!
Darin


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Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: DWSheffer] #374936
Tue Dec 04 2012 05:10 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 05:10 PM
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smyrna, de USA
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can't help with the dates of transition, but I thought I'd share this scarce thermometer. I was thinking this thermometer dates from the 1940's....... but that's just a guess



see me at Mason Dixon Gas, Spring Carlisle M114-115, and Hershey C4E-35.
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: THERMOMAN] #374949
Tue Dec 04 2012 05:30 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 05:30 PM
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Hillsdale, Michigan
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Great piece Charles....Freezone and Permazone came out in the late 1930's and were sold in different packaging through the mid 1960's. That thermometer is really the only advertising piece I've seen with the Gargoyle logo from the 40's, which I agree with you is probably when this piece dates from. Super piece which I don't think I've seen before.


Darin Sheffer
Always looking for Mobil items I don't already have!
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: DWSheffer] #374960
Tue Dec 04 2012 05:49 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 05:49 PM
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Thnx Guys
I bought an imaculate double sided porcelain Mobiloil sign that has the Pegasus on it.
Graphically it looks a great deal like the standard Lollipop of that Era
Sign is incredibly heavy
Rectangular
Roughly 5 Foot by maybe 3 1/2 feet - 4 feet.
I didn't measure
Has a built in (also Porcelain) bracket/ "T" flange.
Dated at the bottom IR- 32
I've never seen one like it and I've never seen a Pegasus sign dated earlier.
Granted many are not dated.
I can post pics in a few days in people are interested.


RIP Kiwi
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: BIGFOOT] #375015
Tue Dec 04 2012 07:38 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 07:38 PM
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Gualala, CA
Scott Baselt Offline
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Does it look like this ?

This one is IR 36.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Last edited by Scott Baselt; Tue Dec 04 2012 07:40 PM.


Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: Scott Baselt] #375029
Tue Dec 04 2012 08:03 PM
Tue Dec 04 2012 08:03 PM
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Connecticut
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Yes
But it's not a shield
It's a rectangle


RIP Kiwi
Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: DWSheffer] #375093
Wed Dec 05 2012 01:46 AM
Wed Dec 05 2012 01:46 AM
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Here's an example that I mention in my response above. This is a Swedish sign from 1947. There is also a similar but with the Pegasus large on top and the Gargoyle below...
There are both flat and convex versions and different colors of the border (red or blue)
br
Claes

Gargoyle Mobiloil 1947.jpg
Gargoyle in transition

Re: Gargoyle to Pegasus ,...when [Re: fast66] #375113
Wed Dec 05 2012 06:17 AM
Wed Dec 05 2012 06:17 AM
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Hillsdale, Michigan
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Bigfoot, you say the sign you have is a 3X5 foot MobilOIL sign? I've seen the MobilGAS version but not a oil version. They are usually dated 1932 or 1933 in that shape/size. I think one was posted on here not too long ago. Please post a photo when you are able!
The earliest hanging shield I've seen was dated 1932. My White Star Mobilgas shield is dated 1934. That is a neat sign Claes.
Darin


Darin Sheffer
Always looking for Mobil items I don't already have!
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