Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Primer questions

I thought about putting this in with the painting topic but decided to start a new thread. It looked like there were enough topics going on over in that other thread.
Here is what I am having trouble with. I have sprayed stuff before, never done all the work. I have just grabbed the gun and shot. I know NOTHING about all the mixing, thinning, etc that goes along with painting.
I have all these pumps that look bad, I can have my buddy next door bead blast them all, FREE! You can't beat that right, even if I resell them, they look better and sell better when they are blasted and all one color. That surface rust does not look bad after a blast of glass bead.
My problem is that when he is slow at work he can do a few pumps a week. I have not had him do much because I am afraid of rust. I don't want him to blast them and then have the skins sit in my garage and rust again. Some pumps I might work on soon, some later.
I have done some really nice work with rattle cans, flames even. Pumps are just too big for that, my finger is getting sore just thinking about it. I want to get my tokheim 36 top blasted this week but don't know what to do next. If you rattle can what about etching?
So... what do I do? Can someone walk me through the primer maze? I need to buy a gun. Canister or gravity, what size orfices? I don't want to spend a ton of cash, I am not painting for a living. I don't want to buy junk either. Anything on ebay? I have a compressor which I will need to add a water filter/trap on. No big deal.
What equipment should I get, how should I set it up? What primer is a good, all around primer. What about etching?
What do I need, keep in mind that I will be doing body and paint on these later. I just would like them all cleaned up right now, the deals are flowing and FREE. Don't want to wait until he gets another job and can't do my blasting anymore. What I wanted to do was have him powder coat the bases and frames and then I would just line them up in my garage in primer until I was ready to finish them. (one at a time)
Thoughts???

Elvis, first off, I'm no expert but here's what works for me.

I have a HVLP (high volumn, low pressure) gun that cost about 100.00 at an auto parts store. It's a clone of an expensive gun.

I shoot the Omni primer, mixed 1:1 with reducer. It has excellent fill characteristics and is easy to work with. You can get different reducer for the temperature you will be spraying in.

I'm anxious to hear the other replies to this. I know there are lots of pros and some others with lots more practical knowledge than I.

Aquaelvis,
A good auto paint store will be able to give some info on which primers work best. After you blast you will most likely want some kind of filler primer. Ask for the spec sheet on the primer and it should list the reducers and ratios you want to use. If you are down to bare metal you may want to use some type of liquid metal prep prior to priming.
What ever you do make sure you get plenty of lacquer thinner or gun cleaner. Primer dries fast and tends to gum up your gun if you are not careful. Don't want to mess up a new gun.
When you buy your gun get a good filter respirator, not those cheap white nose cones.
Also, get a good moisture separator for your air line.
Ed

If you want a good gun go with a devilbiss or binks.

The DeVilbiss Finishline 3 is the best gun in my opinion that you can buy.

Here's a link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2336003272&category=22779

Matco tools sells a gravity feed gun for around 90 bucks. It has a 1.4 tip and is a real good all around gun. Make sure to put a regulator at the gun with a filter to stop any water, (water in paint and primer is bad). Gravity guns are more balanced when using them and they use less material because they do not have to suck the material up a tube. Gravity guns are also much easier to clean. Total with regulator and gun your looking around 120.00. I use the Matco gun only for spraying clear, but it will work for primer and paint. One word of advice, take your time cleaning the gun after use and it will last you a long, long time. I have a few other guns that are 400.00 units, and this Matco gun Im talking about sprays really nice for the price.

After you spray the panels and let them sit for a while, they will have to be sanded before you can primer or paint again.

Ryan

I forgot one thing. After blasting, I wipe everything down with ppg 330. It removes any oils, etc and lets the paint get a good grip.

If you can't get around to priming them immediately, you can spray them with LPS. A good coat will prevent any rusting. Make certain to clean the parts completely before painting.

H2Oking:

Get yourself a decent HVLP gun. Gravity feed works the best for cleaning and overall balance while shooting. Talk to the counterpeople at your local paint store. They can show you the difference in the guns they sell and make sure that you get something that will work for what you are planning on doing.

I'm currently using a DeVilbiss 'Millenium 2000' I bought new off of e-bay. It came with three nozzles, a great cleaning kit (with brushes, lube and instructions), two tops, bags and a aluminum hanger for the workbench. It's a really good gun and I throughly enjoy shooting with it. You can shoot a swath of paint at 10"-12" or tune it down to a 2" band.

Get the best water/oil separator you can afford and mount it to the wall close to your compressor. Also get a small pressure regulator to go at the gun. Set your air pressure slightly higher at the wall unit and fine-tune it at the gun prior to shooting any paint. I usually set the wall unit 5 lbs higher than I want the pressure at the gun. That way I can set the actual pressure at the gun before I start shooting. You will lose a few pounds of pressure 'in the hose'. The longer the hose - the more the pressure drop will be.

Now about the blasting. Save yourself some grief and never handle a blasted panel with your bare hands! Always use clean gloves or a clean rag between your hands and the freshly blasted steel. The oils/moisture from your hands will start the panels rusting immediately. If you touch them and leave them overnight - you will see every finger print and palm print the next morning!

GET PRIMER/SEALER ON THE PANELS ASAP AFTER BLASTING.

The blasting will open up the steel and make more 'surface area' on the panels. With nothing between the steel and moisture - rust is an overnight occurance with any amount of humidity in the air.

Primer: Again, talk to your paint store counterperson. Most true 'primers' are porous and will allow moisture thru to start the rusting process all over if you don't get a top coat on them in a timely manner. What you really want is a primer/sealer. Most of these products are excellent at sealing up the bare steel and giving you a surface that will accept any type of 'bondo'/paint you plan on applying/shooting. The only drawback is that the parts will need to be sanded and re-primed/sealed if you wait over a week to paint the topcoat. Sealers are not intended to be fillers. Never use them for that purpose. Get a Primer/surfacer for that or use some sort of 'bondo' when you are ready to go to color.

Paint is expensive. No doubt about it. However, the prep work is the most important part of a great paint job. All good painters will agree with me on that. Never skimp on the prep! Buy good quality paint (from any of the major brands) and take your time. You can't rush a good paint job.

I realize this is rather long-winded - sorry about that. If you have any further questions when you get into this process, send me an e-mail and I will give you my phone number and we can talk about it then.

Later . . .

Jim