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I don't know how to edit or I would edit my last post, sorry about that. I didn't say anyones opinions were stupid, only the people who belittle those with a differing opinion are stupid. Some of your comments are way out there, atleast to me. Again, my opinion. What would have happened if the auction was legit, an item you and others hadn't seen before? As I said before, I have never met anyone who was 100% sure of anything.

WOW now we have sunken to thye level of name calling...........Bob.. first you say opionions are not stupid but people who belittle other people are stupid ?then my comments are way out there ??...... Than you called the ANOLOGY i made a "fantasy by playing avenger" & you hope i can't fullfill it because i could take a life of a loved one ?? how dramatic..... Bob you had better read what you write & should be very careful on some of your opionions, i probably dislike your opionions more than you dislike mine, however i won't try & belittle you by calling names like , avenger, stupid, way out there
.......i will say it for the 3rd or 4th time , the auction was NOT legit, some of us reconized the stolen picture which you probably have not seen, ebay has removed it, etc. etc. & 99.9% is acceptable...........$37,000 is what some of these big nuts courageous people saved somebody Bob..apparently you could care less as even you have been ripped off on ebay.........Thats ROADRELICS



[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-14-2007).]

TIME OUT--EVERYONE NEEDS ANOTHER COLD ONE or SO

DING DING DING

Bob Richards is absolutely correct.

Placing a false bid is auction tampering. When a bidder places a bid on eBay they are agreeing to eBay's terms and conditions. This is a legal contract between the bidder and eBay. If you fail to follow through with the transaction the law views this matter clear and plain. Ebay defines auction tampering as buyer fraud and a breach of contract. Here is how they define it: "Someone (buyer) who wins a seller's auctions (whether using the Buy It Now button or by bidding very high amounts) with no intention of ever paying for any of them" ... "sometimes acting through sham accounts so as not to be caught".

Now, everyone in this forum understands that this was not the buyers intent, that is clear. However, no matter how well intentioned, eBay, and ALL auction houses, consider this to be a very serious matter because it can set a very dangerious precedant. If this kind of vigilantism were to be allowed, chaos could ensue and it would illegitimize their business.

Let me give you an example of a similar situation that many people can relate. Let's say that you have first hand knowledge that a vehicle has not been described accurate, say a Pontiac LeMans has been expertly converted and sold as a GTO. If you go to Barrett-Jackson, bid on this car and do not follow through with the transaction they will remove you from the property and ban you from bidding ever again. Auction companies simply cannot allow a bidder to bid an obscene amount of money and then fail to follow through with the transaction because they feel the item or seller is illegitimate.

No matter how well intentioned, why would you place yourself in the vulnerable position of having to defend yourself? If it goes sideways, you risk losing a lot ... more than you ever have to gain.

[This message has been edited by chadhaas (edited 07-15-2007).]

I figure when seller REFUSED to let item be picked up by buyer, that killed the sale.
db

String me up.

ebay is not an Auction , I repeat NOT an auction!!

Whenever something goes wrong and ebay is taken to task to make things right, That is what they will always and quickly tell you.

So if you have evidence of someone not honouring their high bid call them on it.

Until then when you see someone trying to stop someone from getting screwed cuz ebay wont stop the auction, why worry about it. If the ITEM IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR AUCTION it is NOT an AUCTION.. it is a scam!! Some people are so blinded by the rules they would rather see an honest person get taken for THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS than get saved from the scam!!

Sure glad I dont have friends like that...

chadhaas............. are you sure mobil100 is legally resonsible & has to honor his bid of $37,000.00 for this fraudulent item ??...

....bummer mobil100 you had better get the check (or western union) in the mail & it will probably go to Europe...

...maybe chadhass & Bob will borrow you the money since they think "it could be real"

i guess if i was mobil100 i would have to say to the seller.,,"SUE ME" which i doubt the seller will do, however ebay may suspend this account because he didn't pay & they are not getting their percentage

you are really in a bind in mobil100

This post has gotten way off track and some have misconstued my statements. First off, can anyone here say with absolute certainty they can tell a fraudulant item 100% of the time? Ofcourse not. Dodo, according to contract laws in all countries ebay operates in, ebay auctions are binding and one can be prosecuted for not honoring an auction. Now 99.9% won't take it any further than leaving negitive feedback, because of the costs involved. In my post I talked about being absolutely positive when making a fraudulant bid on an item, as Mobil 100 said he did. What would have been the outcome if Mobile 100 had been wrong and the item had been real? If he didn't complete the auction, does anyone in their right mind think the seller wouldn't use every avenue available to get satisfaction under the law? All I said was, one had better be 100% correct. Unless I have missed it, I haven't seen too many here on Antiques Roadshow or working for Sotheby's as experts. There was a post in the last 60 days or so in regards to someone who has written books on signs(I'm not into signs) who may have been taken on an auction. If the possibility exists that an expert can be fooled... We are all adults here, do what you need to do. To all of those who say it is okay to have a "bad" bid, would you feel the same if it were your item and someone was wrong about it?

hey Bob , how do you know the guy who wrote the book on signs "got took" ??.... because somebody said it?? .......are you 100% sure???
we are not saying this sign is a fantasy, repo,real, it's a STOLEN PICTURE, have you even looked at it ?? can you tell me the 10 other signs that are in the photo ??
.........if i was you i would stick with what you know & you personnally said "i'm not into signs"...........I am into signs

http://roadrelics.com/ however the best stuff is not shown here.....

I will say 100% "its a "FRAUD" & not a lot of "what ifs"

...i also have a profile with a homepage,occupation & interests, all which you choose not to display......hope i didn't offened you with my opinion



[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-16-2007).]

Roadrelic, is it that you can't comprehend the written word or just not smart enough to quote me correctly? I said in my last post "who may have been taken on an auction". I did not say he had been taken, if you are going to quote someone atleast get the quote correct. I think you just want to muddy up the intent of the post and what I had to say. Also I didn't mention any auction in particular I was talking in generalities. A concept you don't seem to have a handle on. Have all the opinions you want, it is when you "bastardize" someone else's words, that's when there is a problem. Are you an expert on signs, if so by whose measure are you an expert? I would like to learn more about this hobby. I have a small library on "gas and oil" collecting, 5-10 books and am trying to learn more everyday. I am upfront that I don't have the knowledge to determine a fraudulant item. If you are an expert I'm sure that the site will be glad to have you give us all information on how to determine if an item is real. I know I look forward to a 100%, works everytime shortcut to spotting fraudulant items.

there we go calling names again & trying to belittle me.........I'll say it again, Thats "ROADRELICS" to you Boob.......

..if i was you, i'd keep my words to myself as you are really showing your true intelligence.........its not just me saying this, read everybodies posts on this auction, but i guess we can all stop & sleep better at night as Bob has

"The Written Word"

you talk about me not being smart enough, heck you can't even figure out how to edit your posts........its the 3rd button on the top




[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-16-2007).]

My last word about this post. Roadrelics, to be honest I never paid any attention to your name. You belittled Chad for asking a question and voicing his opinions, you belittled me because I don't pretend to have knowledge about the hobby I enjoy. You don't answer direct questions on what qualifications you have as a "sign expert". You throw out thoughts and then hide behind them as "everybodies posts". I saw two peoples' post that mentioned me by name, Chad's and yours, Dodo's was general and not directed towards anyone in particular. As to intelligence, people will make up their own minds. I came to this site to gain knowledge on "gas and oil" items. I ask for concrete answers to help me gain worthwhile knowledge, you give slurry. Are you always sure of the authenticity of a sign, especially one you have already purchased? Ofcourse the answer is no, as your post dated 6/21/07 shows : http://www.oldgas.com/shoptalk/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003091.html As I mentioned earlier my last word on this subject. I hope I have entertained all you who have come seeking knowledge and left with only a parched throat. I wish that I could refresh you with some knowledge, but I am just a novice. As the "expert" said: "if I was you, i'd keep my words to myself as you are really showing your true intelligence". Sorry, I had to quote that section. It has been fun and being able to be a burr, under 'Mr. Peabody's" saddle, made it worthwhile atleast for me. Roadrelics, I didn't make a comment about the auction in question, I have said this over and over. Are you that far gone, as not to be able to understand what I am saying? As to me not putting personal info on my profile I thought that is up to the individual. Why does it bother you? Are you a stalker or something?

[This message has been edited by Bob Richards (edited 07-16-2007).]

PROOF THAT IT WAS A FAKE LISTING
It only took them over a week to react after the listing had ended. the fake seller would have been long gone

here what e-bay sent to me

Item Number - 280129551068
Item Title - Old Westland Service Porcelain Neon Gas Sign w/ Buffalo

Our records show that you placed a bid on this item. We removed this item from the Site and cancelled your bid because it appears that the seller's account has been compromised and used by an unauthorized third party. The seller's privileges to trade on eBay may be temporarily suspended while we investigate this matter further. Due to privacy concerns we will not be able to share further details related to this seller.

If someone claiming to be the seller asks you to complete a transaction outside of eBay, we strongly recommend that you ignore the request. Transactions for items listed on eBay that are completed outside of the eBay marketplace are not covered by the Buyer Protection services offered by eBay and can be highly indicative of fraud.

1. Stop payment with your bank if you paid by check.
2. Contact the Security Department of your credit card company to file a chargeback if you paid via credit card.

[This message has been edited by mobil100 (edited 07-16-2007).]