Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana New eBay Feedback Ratings...........

eBayers,
Did you guys receive an email from eBay about the new feedback changes coming?? Note that "shipping time" will become part of the rating for sellers. To me, this sucks. Who has control over the postal system, UPS and FedEx?? I see problems ahead...

Feedback System Changes
Buyers will soon be able to leave Detailed Seller Ratings (DSRs) on four aspects of a transaction: accuracy of Item Description, Communication, Shipping Time, and Shipping and Handling charges. In addition to the current overall positive, negative, or neutral rating and comment, DSRs will appear on the Feedback Profile page after 10 or more buyers have left them.

Yeah this is going to be interesting. Sounds like you can give poor feedback in those catagories and still give them a positive overall feedback. Also how about sellers being able to give additional feedback on buyers like communications, timely payment, ect??

Keith

Seems like ebay is trying in all the wrong places. I don't like to complain or be negative, but it seems they are doing stuff just to do it and not addressing their real issues. Just my .02 worth of advice.

Most seller's Don't leave Feedback till Buyer does. WHY ?
Or email when item[s] were sent !

Just my .02 worth. I have purchased items on ebay,I don't sell, and they never showed up for weeks. Once I file the complaint, I received the item(s) in 3-4 days. These sellers try to use the dodge that the USPS must have lost the item for a while. This has happened atleast 10 times in the last couple of years, each and every time the postmark on the package has read sent on the day I filed the complaint or the day after. These are the people ebay is directing this directive towards. Will some honest people get hurt, unfortunately yes. But I think that the buyers who give bad feedback would give it for some other reason. Like I said just my .02 worth.
Bob

Bob,
Your complaint is directed at lazy eBay sellers. I'm concerned that bidders may blame the seller if the item is not delivered promptly by the carrier. Here's the eBay qualifier stated in every auction...

*Sellers are not responsible for service transit time. This information is provided by the carrier and excludes weekends and holidays. Note that transit times may vary, particularly during peak periods.

I solve the whole problem by only entering feedback AFTER the bidder. As a seller, I explain to the bidder that his feedback indicates that he is happy with the item and the transaction is complete. I will then reciprocate the feedback. I refuse to be held hostage to negative feedback for circumstances beyond ny control.

Paul

Paul, there are some bad apples on both sides of the ebay conversation. It is not always the buyer who tries to hold up the seller, as it isn't always the seller holding up the buyer. One only has to go to the ebay blogs and read about seller feedback disasters as well as buyer. It seems to run pretty close 1:1. I myself, have been threatened by some of the sellers. Telling me that they will give me neg feedback, if I tell the truth on how they sent my package. I consider myself honest, I will give neg feedback only if any problems can't be settled. It seems to me that you are jumping to a conclusion before anything has been done. Sooner or later I will get that first neg, I know it will happen. I pay for an item within minutes of the auction end. I contact the seller if there is a problem, just as I would want them to contact me. Like I said, not all people whether they sell or buy believe the same as me. The honest buyer will always be honest, same as the honest seller. And a dishonest person will always be dishonest. In my humble opinion, I believe you are painting with a rather wide brush and paint is flying in many directions. Just the way I read it. Not trying to cause you a problem, just looking at things in maybe a different way than you right now.
Bob

Up to now I have strictly been a buyer on e-bay, I always pay within at the most 8 hours of the end of the auction and usually much sooner. When researching a members feedback, quite often I find if one gets a negative then he will usually leave a negative as revenge. Now how honest is that? The reasons for the revenge negative are usually very weak and obvious what they are, so all are held hostage by a policy which was implemented with good intentions but executed poorly. I understand there are nightmare people out there who will never be pleased so I guess I don't know what the answer is, but I will read both sides if I can. Sorry for the rant, I actually started going off on the USPS too but I deleted it, I should save that for another day....broken globe...bent signs...can't track.....not our fault....

Ebay needs to force the seller to leave feedback as soon as the item is paid!
Then the buyer can simply be honest and NOT have a negative feedback held over his head!
That is the ONLY way for honest sincere feedback to be left...
Lastly...If a jerk needs a negative??? GIVE IT TO HIM!!! Don't be scared to get one! Just explain THEY were a deadbeat so you gave them neg and got one in return...
Life goes on...

[This message has been edited by tomzcollectiblez (edited 04-27-2007).]

Archer: "I actually started going off on the USPS too but I deleted it, I should save that for another day....broken globe...bent signs...can't track.....not our fault...."

Actually, 90% of the time damage is the sellers fault due to poor packing. If an item is packed properly and damage occurs, there will be ample evidence of damage to the box. Try making a claim for damage when the box shows no damage and see how far you get.

Tomz: "Ebay needs to force the seller to leave feedback as soon as the item is paid!"

That's total BS!! Why should anyone be FORCED to enter any feedback for anything?? It's always been personal choice.

As a seller, I'm not going to be held hostage to an unreasonable or dishonest buyer who threatens negative feedback with fictitious claims and/or demands.

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 04-27-2007).]

Pablo, Thats my whole point! OVER HALF OF ALL FEEDBACKS ARE NEVER EVEN LEFT!!!
Thus, people that got stung by someone ONLY reported it half the time...
If you hold feedback after they paid then YOUR in the wrong(In my opinion)!
IF you properly described, packed it well and shipped timely then you should have NOTHING to worry about!
IF someone threatens you OR tries to hold a negative over your head then SIMPLY turn them in!!!
I have had people use feedback as a weapon or tool several times! I just turned them in and told them so...Feedback Bribery is a serious offense and will get them kicked off immediately!

The claim on the globe was denied because they said the damage didn't occur while it was in their custody, the carrier wouldn't deliver it to me because it sounded broken, so I had no possession of it, which would suggest the buyer shipped it broken. Not likely but certainly possible. I believe it was not packed well enough, but the Postmaster told me that without a "fragile" label on it he himself would "toss" it. I'm thinking to myself "if all packages were handled as fragile, then we may not be having this conversation". In reality the USPS uses allot of third party carriers and it is impossible to maintain complete control of the operation.
The seller and I worked out a deal and all was OK in the end. No negatives, I understand things can happen and that's just the way it is.
The feedback issue is certainly controversial , perhaps a "time limit" to leave feedback where the seller would have say 10 days ( enough time to receive payment) and the buyer would have 20 days ( enough to receive the item). Or your total number of transactions and any valid claims filed against you through E-bay or paypal. It is a tough subject.

While we are talking about eBay...

I don't get why my total score dose not go up if I do business with a seller more than once. I should get two points if I had two positive transactions with the same seller.

Honestly, I wish there was some real competition for eBay.

Signal, best idea yet. Competition would force better service and clean up alot of the mess. I have also thought that before a negative goes into effect, maybe there should be a cooling off period or a certain amount of days to resolve the issue before the negative comment is finally submitted and made public. Certainly there are enough good ideas out there to make the process better.

Feedback is optional, not required.

I use feedback to let people know the item has been shipped and I am happy. But, if I do that and the buyer is then unhappy and becomes unreasonable...then I am out of luck.

I can see why the seller would wait for the buyer, make sure they are happy.

Fun stuff....

I agree that the seller should leave feedback first, once the buyer pays. At that point, the buyer has fulfilled their end of the agreement. Like has been stated before, if the seller described the item honestly, they should have nothing to worry about. When a seller states in their auction that they don't leave feedback until the buyer does, it actually makes me leery of even bidding on the item. That to me says that they're not confident in the accuracy of their listing. If I pay for an item minutes after the auction ends (as I usually do), why should I have to wait until I've left feedback to receive feedback? My end of the transaction is complete. So...if I'm not satisfied with the item, I'm getting negative? The whole feedback thing is ridiculous. Intentions were good, but the system isn't working very well. Just my .02.
Tara

I for one never leave feedback as a seller until I see from the buyer. I have been the victim of a few cases of buyer's remorse where the buyer complains about things CLEARLY stated in the description, and they are just trying to weasel out. Also, just because PAYPAL says you've received payment, they can still rescind their payment. I think the feedback system should be initiated by ebay, like with an automated e-mail from ebay to each the buyer & seller about 15 days after the auction end. They could just ask a simple are you satisfied, yes or no. Check the box, and they pump your rating up or down.

Seth: "I for one never leave feedback as a seller until I see from the buyer."

That's exactly what I've been saying in my previous commentary on eBay feedback. A few of the buyers out here seem to think that sellers should automatically enter positive feedback once the payment has been made. However, it's not that simple. As we know, some buyers are dishonest, unreasonable or, as you mentioned, remorseful.

Your statement "just because PAYPAL says you've received payment, they can still rescind their payment" is not quite accurate. If the buyer has paid with a credit card, they may attempt to dispute the charge through the credit card company. Typically, a buyer will claim they never received an item and dispute the charge. However, a smart seller will use Delivery Confirmation and/or insurance to prove shipping and receipt of the item. Simply mailing an item with no documentation is an invitation to fraud.

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 04-27-2007).]

I think that feed back from the seller should be a MANDITORY part of the transaction in order to complete the sale. TOO MANY sellers state that they will give positive feedback IF they receive positive feedback. If I pay, as soon as the auction completes, then I should get positive feedback as a buyer. If I buy the Mona Lisa, and I receive the Dogs playing poker, I'm leaving negative feedback. Why should the seller hold the buyer hostage? If I dont get positive feedback as a buyer, I dont give positive feedback...... 'nuff said!

I wasn't going to comment again, but Paul you got me interested in your one sided comments. "Some buyers aren't honest...etc." As a buyer I can say from my experience that some sellers are not honest, but I don't paint all sellers with that same brush. You seem to throw paint all over hell and back. Buyers and sellers are people and in my over 50+ years I have noticed that some people are honest and others are not. It has nothing to do with them being a seller or buyer of ebay items. On a different note: right now I have over 450 positive feedbacks, I have purchased close to 600 items. I have given each seller feedback after the auction was over. Seems to this buyer that some sellers look for the feedback to help drive their sales, but don't feel the need the give feedback in return. I am sure that there are sellers who could give the same kind of numbers, it is a people problem not a seller nor a buyer problem.
Bob

Bob: "I wasn't going to comment again, but Paul you got me interested in your one sided comments."

One sided?? Oh, please!! I've been on eBay since 1997 with over 1000 feedbacks. I was a buyer long before a seller. I clearly understand both sides of the transaction. Frankly, I used to have your opinion on the proper sequence of feedback enries. That was until I discovered the same feedback system that other much bigger sellers followed to avoid problems. The key is to EXPLAIN to the buyer that his feedback will signify that he is satisied with the item and the transaction is complete. Then, at that point I, as seller, will enter feedback. If they don't like the process, too bad. We both move on, no harm done. What's the problem??

No feedback is not a problem. Improper or unjustified negative feedback is a real problem.

I get what each and every one of you is saying, and everyone's opinion is as valid as the next guy.....as to what Thunder posted, I don't feel I'm holding the buyer hostage by not giving him feedback right away...for example, one time, a buyer sent me payment via money order. I cashed it, packed his item and sent it. This was pre-MY EBAY days when you couldn't just go in and click "SHIPPED" which notifies the buyer that it is on the way. I didn't e-mail this buyer and let him know I shipped it. It arrived on time and in good shape and he was satisfied, BUT he left me a NEUTRAL for poor communication. SO, I left him a NEUTRAL for being nit-picky. Here lately, I have been having many repeat buyers and buyers I recognize AND THOSE guys, I give an instant positive upon payment. I maintain, there are way too many loose-canons out there to just give auto-positives, because in essence, it's the only bullet you've got if the deal goes bad. AGAIN, this has nothing to do with doing tit for tat if they are unhappy with condition.

Paul I don't want this to be a ***** between us, doesn't get anyone anywhere. You don't know my position on feedback as I didn't state it. I believe that the seller should GIVE feedback after he receives it. My biggest problem is a seller who gets the feedback, but doesn't feel the need to give feedback in return. To the one who gave feedback and didn't receive any, it is a very big problem. And reread your comments, they are one sided. Your complaints are directed from the seller's point of view, only. Like I wrote, haven't seen you make the comment that some sellers aren't the most honest people. All you have commented on is dishonest buyers.
Bob

Edit to delete unacceptable words

[This message has been edited by Oldgas (edited 04-30-2007).]

Bob: "My biggest problem is a seller who gets the feedback, but doesn't feel the need to give feedback in return. To the one who gave feedback and didn't receive any, it is a very big problem."

I agree. But note that as a seller, I clearly EXPLAIN my feedback process to the buyer and I ALWAYS reciprocate feedback. What you are describing is just a lazy eBayer. Hey, there will always be lazy and irresponsible people in this world!!

I resent the accusation that my comments are "one-sided". Like I clearly stated, I both buy AND sell on eBay. I also realize there are plenty of dishonest sellers on eBay. However, as a buyer I accept the sellers feedback process. If I'm happy with the transaction, I have no problem entering feedback first.

Hey, let's agree to disagree this time!! But check out what other sellers, like Seth, are also saying before condemning the process.

You guys who don't sell on Ebay...or do just a small amount don't seem to realize that there are some strange ,unstable, or just plain jerks out there using Ebay!

Many bidders don't read the description and when they get the item are not satisfied even though the seller did everthing 100% correct.I don't know how many times someone has asked me questions about an item and it is clearly stated in the listing.

The bidders have less to loose from a negative than a seller...it hurts your business if your rating is bad and could be just some ignorant or nasty bidders that blew it for you. When I want to bid on something and the sellers feedback is not great I will look at those negatives and so many times I can see that it was just a jerk who left a negative for some "problem" totally out of the sellers control.

I don't know of any sellers who actually would cancel your bidding if you have a few negatives...but bidders will stay away if you are a seller.

It's no bed of roses dealing with some of these people who you just cannot seem to satisfy...not to mention the MANY who you cannot seem to get to pay.If I leave a negative I am almost guranteed one back.

I think the only revision to the feedback that should be done is a way to get these unfounded negatives removed completely-- if you can prove your case. Some would be a no brainer just by reading them. This multi-tiered feedback is garbage.

Seth's comments are right on....go back and read his.
Jim
(selling since 1998)

As far as the shipping is concerned i always ship usps priority, and have never had a problem. Parcel post can take as long as 10 or 14 days! If i am shipping a globe i will use ups ground, the shipper will have to pay more for an oversize charge because i use a heavy duty 24x24x24 outer box, but the globe will arrive in undamaged. So, if you want to get that smaller ebay item to the buyer fast use priority, they will not complain about the cost if you are on the east coast and it arrives on the west coast in 3 days time.

Mr. Wadhams seems to have a handle on things.

PatL, You're playing with fire shipping globes with UPS!

my problem with the ebay feedback system is the fact if you get scammed on an item and leave negative feedback you also get one. I dont leave negative feedbacks and ususally just eat the item, but my action only throws gas on the fire because it enables them to continue screwing more people. I know they have forums to remove unwarranted feedbacks but it is a slow and vigorous process that old men like myself dont have time to go through

dsmith,
Please explain what you mean by "get scammed on an item"??

Does this mean the seller didn't send the item? If so, you should file a complaint with eBay and enter negative feedback.

Does this mean that the item was misrepresented? Again, you should file a complaint with eBay and enter negative feedback.

Does this mean that the description and/or the photo were unclear as to the condition of the item? If so, yes, you should most likely "eat the item" because you didn't use due diligence in questioning the seller prior to bidding.

It always helps to elaborate rather than throw out blanket comments on the problem. IMO

Paul

PABLO, glad you are an ebay expert, why open a thread when you already have all the answers. Let me make it a little more simple for you to understand. I sold a texaco fire chief helment and the guy ask for a refund and his money back, unhappy with item, so I said pay the return postage and I will give a refund. When the package was returned the speaker had been removed, the guy needed a part. I would not give a full refund because my item was returned incomplete, so I get a neg. and after numerous emails to ebay forums its still on my record.

dsmith, I think you can still add comments to the feedback, used to be able to.

Buyer returned for refund but kept part of item.

That along with your neg would explain things a lot..

YES, You can post follow-up comments on BOTH feedback recieved and feedback left...
Post follow up to your negative and explain it!!! It's all you can do unless you try to get feedback mutually withdrawn...


[This message has been edited by tomzcollectiblez (edited 05-08-2007).]

YES. Follow-up feedback comments should be entered if only to warn others of wrongdoing. Generally, a quick review of the feedback trail will show who's at fault in a transaction. Usually, the scammers or dishonest people will establish a pattern of negative feedback over time.

Unfortunately, "dsmith" was a victim of fraud. Feedback is the only way to communicate this type of problem. I wouldn't have given a full refund under similar circumstances either. However, eBay won't get involved with this type of problem because there is no proof of fraud or deception (unless there are definitive photos of before & after condition, etc).

The problem is that the eBay model is to only act as a facilitator to the transaction. They prefer to leave buyer and seller to consummate the transaction and leave appropriate feedback. eBay only wants to police the forum when it has to (i.e., when too much fraud or loss of fees are at stake). Users need to understand that eBay won't be there to settle every dispute or wrongdoing. That's why it's so important to use feedback appropriately.

I usually got a good idea how ebay works except;

Saw a pump today at 50.00 reserve not met, with one bidder. Now the bidder was listed as BIDDER 1.. so I am thinking the bid had to have exceeded 200.00

Is that true???

Yes. Here is the eBay explanation...

"User IDs will appear as anonymous names when the Buy It Now price is set at a certain level, and will remain anonymous throughout the auction."

WOW....I believe 95% of this feedback problem is "communication"...First of all i don't buy much from other ebayers i don't know until i have made a careful evaluation of their prior sales,& feedback etc. etc....As a buyer i leave positive feedback (if deserved) when i recieve my purchase....if i am not happy with my purchase (which is very rare), i immediately return it to the seller i then get their contact info & give a call direct.....as a seller, i do wait for the buyer to leave feedback & make sure they are happy....if they are not (very rare)i will get it worked out......after 700 positives & 1 negative i have never been stiffed on getting my feedback from the seller.....i ask once for it & if i still don't recieve it i then send them a polite email asking if there is a problem with our transaction i would love to work it out....a very few times i have had to ask 3 times & thats where communication is very very helpful.....lets face it the other ebayers are not nearly as sophisticated as us gas & oil guys.....Good Luck 7 thanks for reading all this.........Darryl