Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana Warning: Argentine fakes being sold in America

Hey guys, there is an eBay seller by the name of Diamondsprings from California selling fakes by the guy from Argentina. I checked his feedback and he bought several items from Wholesalecandyshop. Three are for sale now (Refiners pride, Flying A and Signal).

Please post #'s or link's, so that others won't be taken in.
db

I think these are the ones tagree0 is talking about. 160288096555 160288096558 160288096561

Here is link to one of the auctions. Just check sellers other items to see more. http://cgi.ebay.com/1940s-REFINERS-PRIDE-GASOLINE-PORCELAIN-PUMP-SIGN-8_W0QQitemZ160288096555QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160288096555&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

THOSE ARE THE RIGHT #`S JACK POSTED,,IT`S SURE FUNNY HE STARTED EACH AUCTION WITH THE SAME PRICE $169.99,,HE GIVES POOR DECRIPTION ON THE SIGNS...I LIKE THE HOLES IN THE FLYING -A- TRUCK SIGN,,,TXS ALAN

Yet the seller has over 3000 feedbacks with a 100% rating... go figure?

Maybe this seller ( since 1998) is not aware that these signs are fake ? Looks like he has a good reputation.
( at least up till now )

I emailed and asked if the signal was bought from Argentina or if it came off a pump to let me know. Sure looks like the signal from Argentina? I don't know the seller but is in my neck of the woods. Here is link to the signal. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160288096558
Ted

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Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield

[This message has been edited by troach (edited 10-01-2008).]

Ebay removes all negative feedback. Might as well remove all feedback & just post numbers.

dont believe that to be true db .. even when for some legit reason negative fb is removed you can usually tell by looking at ones history where normally it will indicate this

These are definitely from candyshop. No response yet from Diamondsprings. He does have a good feedback score, so I kinda hope he isn't intentionally selling fakes.

By the way, he bought 4 items from candyshop. I have identified 3 above, but one of his others is a fake too. Not sure which...

got my curiousity... how does one estalish that info?

I recognized the Refiner's plate by sight. The two chips on the right side of the plate. That is a recurring theme with candyshop's stuff. There are usually a couple of chips in the porcelain, always off to the side--just enough to make it look used. It has gotten to the point that these chips are really a signature of the forger. Check the signal plate--a couple of chips, but not in the center. Same with the Flying A.

Anyway, I recognized the two chips from the Refiner's plate and knew right away it was the exact plate candyshop listed a while back. Then I looked at the pictures from the back of the plate. Most, but not all, of candyshop's signs have a distinctive rusty back, another signature.

I then checked Diamonspring's feedback, and sure enough, he has 4 positive feedbacks from candyshop.

I checked Diamonspring's other items for sale and found the Signal and Flying A plates. They have the exact same signature--a few chips off to the side, same rusty backs, and this batch of fakes all have the same gentle curvature. Because they were all cut from the same piece of steel.

What a sick, sad world this is.

For those who don't know yet, Wholesalecandyshop is no longer a registered user. He has resurfaced as cosasviejasmex. Newer signs have a painted black back with little rust. He seems to be drifting away from the really sought after gas stuff to doing more non-petro stuff like beer signs, still with the signature porcelain chips of the front. Maybe he is feeling the heat of Oldgas folks who have had enough of his mess. However, he hasn't finished selling off all of the gas stuff yet. He currently has a mobil sign.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LARGE-OLD-GARGOYLE-OIL-PORCELAIN-ENAMEL-SIGN-MOBILOIL_W0QQitemZ220288162795QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220288162795&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A 1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

I can't say for sure this is fake, but it has the signature rusty back, but without the signature chips on the front.

He also has a fire chief sign with the signature chips on the front, but the rusty back looks different. However, the rusty back of the fire chief is identical to his Bovril sign. Both of these signs happen to be the exact same size. My guess is that he cut the Bovril sign and intended to make another fire chief, but then decided to get away from the gas stuff, so painted something else instead. But that is just a guess. At any rate, the fire chief and bovril were cut from the same stock.

Before a hail storm rains down on me, I want to say that not all signs with a few chips off to the side are fakes. I am just saying that this forger uses that almost like a signature. I personally would be cautious if I see a small sign (like a pump plate) with a rusty back and a few porcelain chips off the face, but I'm not saying that every one is fake. I would just do a little more research before I buy.

The examples above are almost certainly fakes because they have these signatures AND they can be traced with relative certainty to a known forger in Argentina. Once these get into the general population, the only way to know for sure is to really know what you are buying (by doing research).

Good point. I saw a couple of these type signs at the last two shows in CA. Pick them up turn them over talk to older collectors or should I say someone that has been collecting for 10 years plus. My 2 cents. Ted

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Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield

this whole thread about possible non-originals is a most informative read

also from other some other old gasers with alternative views, under another column comes this interesting read titled... Sometimes a REPO is alright



[This message has been edited by ynot (edited 10-01-2008).]

Lets make sure everyone knows the difference between the 2 threads. This one is about the posibility that this sellers signs are reproductions being passed off as originals. The thread about repo's is just that, reproduction and fantasy signs and globes. Dick and others rightfully asked about markings to let the next buyer down the line know that the signs are repo's and fantasy. Decals on metal and markings on the back answered that question, as long as no one takes the marking(decal?) off the back. Wholesalecandyshop was selling his "works of art" on ebay as the real "McCoy", original signs. Now it looks as if someone has purchased at least 4 items from "Wholesale" and may again be passing them off on ebay as originals. Just a "heads up" warning to those just getting into sign collecting that this seller's items may not be original. It is always up to the buyer to ensure they get what they pay for. Man, I'm long winded. lol

I emailed Diamondsprings regarding the Signal pump plate--repop or real--to date no answer-i think i know the answer!

I have been in contact with "diamondsprings" and he has revised his auctions as "reproductions" and lowered the price since he found out the truth about them.He appears to be an honest man.

Yes, I do think he is honest. I received a response this weekend:

Sorry I didnt answer before, I thought you might be trying to get the price lowered. I did buy these from the guy you mentioned (I think he was in Brazil, but whats the difference). I also did some more research and found a link to a website in South America with the signs. I went ahead and revised the auctions (and lowered the prices significantly), and I will notify any bidders in case they were watching the auctions. I should have Googled the bidder id before I bought, not just for the signs.

I got a reply also and he just didn't know. Seems to be an honest seller. Thanks to this site he got an education. He just thought he was getting a good deal from south of the border. Ted

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Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield