#129047
Sat Jan 24 2009 10:30 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12
Veteran Member
|
OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12 |
This guy is advertising this plate as NEW with a buy it now price of $29.99 and the thing is marked IR-1-48 at the bottom!!! He has a White Crown one thats done the same way! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=170269697257 Now that is moving beyond the realm of producing reproductions and moving into the realm of pure FRAUD! Isn't there some agency that this could be reported to? Like I said in one of my earlier threads--this kind of thing will ruin the antique sign business if they're not identifiable! I still believe reproductions have their place but they need to be IDENTIFIABLE!That makes me mad!  KEVIN
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066 |
These have been around for a long time. The originals measure 12" X 13". The repops are 12" X 15" as stated in his ad. There may be other ways to tell them apart that I'm not aware of. Still, it's pretty deceiving !
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,004 Likes: 27
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,004 Likes: 27 |
 Thanks! I didn't realize there was a size difference in these signs repo vs original.
Drive with Care and Buy Sinclair!! I buy Sinclair globes, signs, cans, ect.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12
Veteran Member
|
|
OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12 |
Thanks Scott--I didn't realize the size difference either! I knew there were repos around but I didn't know they were falsely dated!---KEVIN
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,004 Likes: 27
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,004 Likes: 27 |
I did a little checking and I am not sure that the originals are 13 X 12. Every one I have checked on is 15 X 12 repos & claimed originals. Can anyone verify the correct size of Standard pump plates??
Drive with Care and Buy Sinclair!! I buy Sinclair globes, signs, cans, ect.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 683
Petro Enthusiast
|
|
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 683 |
My originals are 12" x 15".
Jim
Wanted: Wadhams - Bartles - O'neils - Items
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,004 Likes: 27
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,004 Likes: 27 |
Thanks. I was pretty sure that was correct after some checking,
Keith
Drive with Care and Buy Sinclair!! I buy Sinclair globes, signs, cans, ect.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12
Veteran Member
|
|
OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12 |
So, if the repops and the originals are the same size and dated the same, what does that tell us? Theres soon to be a whole bunch of very nice originals out there because the fellow selling them, said they were! That leaves the question as to how to tell them apart and justify your findings. The fellow thats selling them on ebay, is listing them as new but what is the next person going to do? It sure looks like fraud, smells like fraud, so what is it?  I don't see PRODUCED UNDER LISCENSE FROM MOBIL anywhere. I'm a fairly new collector and hopefully I've spent my money wisely but this reproduction turned original thing scares me right into non-purchase. I can see it preventing a lot of people from ever starting this hobby with the idea that its a good investment.  The money you invest in a nice sign because its a little rare and you really like it---suddenly turns around and the same sign is losing value every day because someone has reproduced it and noone can tell the difference. Potential buyers are being scammed every day on ebay and bitten enough times---they'll QUIT buying. Maybe I'm out in left field here but it seems to me that if these things aren't identified and readily recognized, it will eventually cause the demise of a great hobby. Kinda like the old fable about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs because it wasn't fast enough! I guess I'd better quit rambling--I'm just frustated! Thanks for listening------KEVIN
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 366
Petro Enthusiast
|
|
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 366 |
So, if there is no size difference, how can you tell if these are repro or not? I have a pair of these that are in near perfect condition, I have always assumed them to be repro, just because of the condition. It would be nice to find out that they were real though. But I doubt it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,519
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,519 |
I would just stay away from those thing unless you are positive where they came from so you know they are real or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,772 Likes: 1
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,772 Likes: 1 |
So, if the repops and the originals are the same size and dated the same, what does that tell us? Theres soon to be a whole bunch of very nice originals out there because the fellow selling them, said they were! That leaves the question as to how to tell them apart and justify your findings. The fellow thats selling them on ebay, is listing them as new but what is the next person going to do? It sure looks like fraud, smells like fraud, so what is it? I don't see PRODUCED UNDER LISCENSE FROM MOBIL anywhere. I'm a fairly new collector and hopefully I've spent my money wisely but this reproduction turned original thing scares me right into non-purchase. I can see it preventing a lot of people from ever starting this hobby with the idea that its a good investment. The money you invest in a nice sign because its a little rare and you really like it---suddenly turns around and the same sign is losing value every day because someone has reproduced it and noone can tell the difference. Potential buyers are being scammed every day on ebay and bitten enough times---they'll QUIT buying. Maybe I'm out in left field here but it seems to me that if these things aren't identified and readily recognized, it will eventually cause the demise of a great hobby. Kinda like the old fable about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs because it wasn't fast enough! I guess I'd better quit rambling--I'm just frustated! Thanks for listening------KEVIN There's no reason for these to be licensed by Mobil. The Red Crown sign is a reproduction of a Standard of Indiana (later Amoco and now BP) sign. The repro Red Crown and White Crown pump signs have been around for a long time. I first saw them in the mid-90's. They may have been around longer than that. SOME of the early repros were marked "reproduction" in red diagonally across the back. I've seen that ground off by dishonest sellers trying to pass the signs off as originals. I believe it was reported in PCM many years ago that you could tell the repros by the color of the back. I don't think that was accurate because I've seen originals with grey or white backs. Whats funny was when the marked repros hit the market they cost more than a nice original. If you're afraid of buying a Red Crown pump plate because of unmarked repros you'll want to stay away from the Pure, Shamrock, Texaco,.......well, you get the idea.
Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros. http://www.lastgas15.com/
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12
Veteran Member
|
|
OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,282 Likes: 12 |
Exactly my point! Being a new investor, if I don't know for sure, I usually pass and someone loses out on a sale. These may have been around for a long time but it was before I was collecting anything and how am I to know about it?
I guess I'm just sore because there are unmarked reproductions out there. I have nothing against the marked ones, I even bought one last month that originally sold for $100 and I gave $500 for it because I couldn't find one!---Thanks for letting me vent----KEVIN
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,066 |
WOW, mass confusion ! When I stated that the originals measured 12 X 13 I was quoting both of my sign books ie : PCM's Guide to GAS PUMP RESTORATION and OIL COMPANY SIGNS A Collector's Guide. I just measured my (original ?) pump plate and it is 12 X 15. Are both books wrong ? Or do we all have repo's ? And, how can we tell the difference ? Anybody ?????
The plot thickens....................
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 539 Likes: 2
Petro Enthusiast
|
|
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 539 Likes: 2 |
I have notations in my books of several mistakes I've found. These Standard signs are one of them. I wouldn't buy a Red Crown or White Crown sign unless I could actually see it in person or I was familiar with the person selling it.
ROD [Mich.]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,772 Likes: 1
Veteran Member
|
|
Veteran Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,772 Likes: 1 |
WOW, mass confusion ! When I stated that the originals measured 12 X 13 I was quoting both of my sign books ie : PCM's Guide to GAS PUMP RESTORATION and OIL COMPANY SIGNS A Collector's Guide. I just measured my (original ?) pump plate and it is 12 X 15. Are both books wrong ? Or do we all have repo's ? And, how can we tell the difference ? Anybody ?????
The plot thickens.................... Yes, both books are wrong. They were written by the same authors. They probably used their notes from the sign book when writing the restoration book. When I saw your post about the repops being a different size I got out my Oil Company Signs book. I found that I had made a notation that the red and white crown pump plates were 12 X 15. I don't remember doing that, but I do sometimes make notations in my guide books when I find additional information. I've got a bunch of guide books about petroliana. NONE of them are 100% accurate. They are guides, not bibles. I'm not sure there is a way to tell the difference between originals and repops. Does anyone know if the gauge of the steel is the same? Do the corners have the same radius? The repops have the same maker and date markings, but are they in the same exact locations as the originals?
Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros. http://www.lastgas15.com/
|
|
|
|
|
