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#13493 - Mon Feb 12 2007 05:47 PM Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
I have owned visibles, clocks,76,36-B,A-38,
62,300,39,541,646,766,966...you name it, but for some reason I had always been fond of the little Bowser Oil Pump I found at the bottom of a pile of visibles....kinda like Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree, it was rough and some of the parts were missing.But I took it home and left the visibles.

Over the years I have collected parts from other Bowser pumps, ones I thought would be correct. Thanks to Jack's book and Gulfiend's pump,I have been able to see that the parts were the correct ones; wood handle, light sockets, and spout.Possibly door handle too. Information on a pump this old and obscure doesn't come easy.

After several hours of searching the patent
site, I finally found the patent for the cabinet of this pump, at least the top...The patent was 1917 for the sheet metal pump and 1911 for the cast model. What the actual production or selling dates would have been, I don't know.

The 241 Red Sentry could have been used both as an oil pump or as a gasoline pump...it has a setting for a pint, and a spout inside the housing.... it was first designed with two


The 245 Bowser came as either a gasoline pump
or an oil pump....two versions....same cabinet. This is the gasoline version drawing. Nowhere on the description is Bowser mentioned that I found. Different inventor also.
Pat. applied for 1917

more to come....
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Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13494 - Mon Feb 12 2007 05:52 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
Here is the oil and gas versions


[This message has been edited by jkyocom (edited 02-12-2007).]

[This message has been edited by jkyocom (edited 02-12-2007).]
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13495 - Mon Feb 12 2007 06:04 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA

The inventors were different...but one was for "guts" and one was for Body, in these . I have not found the 241 body pat. The pump guts should be off same patent for 241 and 245. The 245 should be a later pump than the 241.....consecutivly thinking...kinda like the 40,60,70 Wayne or the 34,36,39 Tokheim
Just wanted to share my findings.
Thanks...Joe

[This message has been edited by jkyocom (edited 02-12-2007).]
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13496 - Mon Feb 12 2007 07:00 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
travis_towle Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Jan 22 2003
Loc: Topeka, Kansas USA
I will have to make notes on this one. Very cool info. I guess that sometimes a little extra searching can get you the correct info.

You are like the king of the Bowser!
Would that make me the king of the Fry? lol


Very cool.


Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

785-357-1004

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#13497 - Mon Feb 12 2007 08:14 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
No just got a king size headache trying to figure this Mystery out....I never new what the cut # for this Bowser was untill I saw it in Jack's book.But I had a handle cast from (mabey)an original,off a gasoline version that was 18 yrs ago. I never saw the pump.This is my "keeper" and if it takes a few more years to find the rest of the right parts....This year should be it's 90 yr birthday.....Mabey I'll have it done by 2017

Hmmm....King Bowser....he was always messin with a plumber....but his name was Mario.

Got any BENJAMIN lamp sockets Travis???
All the Fry pumps I have had , had them.
Thanks......Joe

I HAVE A CURVED BOWSER CUT #63 ID TAG IF ANYONE NEEDS IT.
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13498 - Tue Feb 13 2007 02:27 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
travis_towle Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Jan 22 2003
Loc: Topeka, Kansas USA
I have one of the lamp sockets - and am trying to get them reproduced as I type.

Fun Fun!


Travis E. Towle
Topeka, Kansas

785-357-1004

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#13499 - Tue Feb 13 2007 06:55 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
Something came to me today about this pump.
The pat. date is 1917....the fact that we were in a war at the time may be the reason for the sheet metal version. Also they may not have started producing these pumps untill after 1918.
Just a theory.
Joe
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13500 - Tue Feb 13 2007 07:13 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Your pump could have been made ANYTIME AFTER the last Pat. date. There is something on your pump that was Pat. on that date. Bowser was still in business in 1965.

I have a REAL DOG POUND! 38+ BOWSER's. Starting with 2 Salesmans Sample #32'S thru a #275 1938 ALZACK pump light attachment.
db
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#13501 - Tue Feb 13 2007 07:18 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...neat info, Joe, nice detective work, glad I could help out - I'll have to print it the patent drawings and your post for future reference...
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Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#13502 - Tue Feb 13 2007 09:32 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
bruzer75 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 22 2006
Loc: Grants Pass, OR, USA
I am no expert on patent dates but my buddy told me that a patent date was good for 20 years. So you could figure an item that had a patent date could have been made within a 20 year period of that date. Anybody know for sure?
Mike

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#13503 - Thu Feb 15 2007 04:29 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
That is the whole mystery behind this pump Dick......the pat. dates on the sheet metal version "ID Tag" are the pat dates for the cast RED Sentry.1911 1914.
These dates pre-date the patent date of this pump. My brother has a Cast Sentry and the dates on his are 1911-1914-1916.The actuall pat. date is 1917 for the sheet metal pump...I can only speculate that is why this pump is thought of as older or closer kin to the Sentry. I thought it was older because of the dates on mine.I am not dissapointed, I am elated that I finally found the info I had been searching for.Took 20 yrs to find out! I always thought that they were too different in style(241/245)to be twins.I would like to find out just when they started manufacturing this pump...1916-1918 I would guess.
Have you ever seen an oil version of this pump? Or do you have one in the dog pen???
I have a curved Bowser cut # 63 tag if you need it. Was that the wood box pump????

This post is not a question of how old this pump is...it is about the 245 oil pump.It is not companion to 241 as believed...it is companion to 245? gas pump.Nor did it come out in 1910.All the documentation should speak for itself...but now another question remains...
If the oil pump is a cut # 245, is the gas pump a cut # 245???????
Joe
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13504 - Thu Feb 15 2007 04:32 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
D'Oh

[This message has been edited by jkyocom (edited 02-15-2007).]
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

Top
#13505 - Thu Feb 15 2007 07:17 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Joe,
I don't belive this pump was dedicated for gas or oil. It could be used for any liquid [kerosene, gasolene, oil, paint & paint thinner, ink, etc.]. The basic pump had a SPICKET [for swing spout use], other options were:
HOSE
LIGHT BONNET w/wo GLOBE HOLDER
5gal. VISIBLE attachment.
db
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#13506 - Thu Feb 15 2007 08:04 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
Dick, are you refering to the 241 or 245?
Finding info on the 241 was easy.

Sure, as long as the parts will not be affected by product you can pump anything out of it...You can pump water through a gas pump ...but it will tear it up.
Jack has my pump listed as an oil pump, the other version I was using "gas" as a distinction in the difference between the two 245 pumps in this post.
Mine (245) was made souly for the purpose of pumping a fluid into a container, whereas Gulfeind's pump was made to pump fluid through a hose. Pedestle guts and control guts are different....cabinet is the same.

Ever seen a "cow" meter...It meters molasses to go into feed.
Joe
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#13507 - Thu Feb 15 2007 09:03 PM Re: Mistake of the Sentry.....245 Gas/Oil twins
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Joe,
Refering to the 245.
This is my Gasoline version.

Just looked for a Cut or Fig. #, could not find either. Last Pat. date is '14 [this pump was made anytime after that].

It IS possible that the Castiron & Sheetmetal versions have the same Fig. # for gasoline. I have Bob Lee's BOWSER book printed in 1978, but it list both versions as having the same #.

Hopefully Jack or Ron Scobie have more info. for these pumps.
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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