Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Accumulations, Collections and Collectibles

It's almost 1:00 a.m. and I always get creative at this time in the morning.

I want to start a discussion about where we are going with all this stuff we have out there in the garage or whatever.

I will start with the last thing I posted "Collectibles."

When it comes to the collectibles, these are things that make us remember our past. They can be the things we collect, but they can also be anything that takes us back to what we want to call the good old days. So we look for them, and possibly add some of them to our collection. If you picked Lunch Boxes, and have a room full of them, you lost money, you picked the wrong thing, the bottom fell out of them years ago. Model Ts and Model As are selling for at least 30% less than I was paying for them 30 years ago. It may be a collectible today, but will it be a collectible 10 years from now?

So....you are sitting there and asking yourself, what "so called collectible" should I buy. I'll give you the biggest mistake I ever made: Around 1995 I thought that scratch off lottery tickets would be the next greatest collectible. By 2008 I had 50,000 of them. I put them on Ebay for $50.00 and no one was willing to pay the shipping to get them. They went in the trash. If you are looking for something to sell to put your kid through college you have to be smarter than me.
So again what I am trying to say is we are into collectibles, and we are trying to predict what is the next collectibles. But what I have observed is that what is hot today, may not be hot 10 years from now.

The next thing is "Accumulations." This is what I have said for years is what we all have. I have sold every globe I have ever found (I don't like them, they break). I have a few gas pumps, I have some maps, same salt & peppers, some signs, etc., this to me is an accumulation, not a collection.

Now, "Collections." This is the tough one to describe. For me, I once had over 600 handy oilers, this is a collection. If the only thing you look for when you go to a petroleum swap meet for is salt and pepper shakers, and you have 100s of them, you have a collection. As many of you know I fell in love with literature and have 41 drawers of petroliana related literature, I think I have a collection.

So...lets take a look at the weekly "Antique Roadshow." Someone comes on the show with a ring, they tell them it is worth $60,000, and the response you hear is "WOL." What you don't hear is the next question, "where can I find an auction to put this ring in so I can send my son/daughter through college." That statement that "we are going to keep it in the family" is BS. The ring may have been your grandmothers, but 20 years from now, the kid who finds it in the box has no idea who your grandmother was and gives it to his girlfriend, so if you are smart you sell it now.

Dick Bennett has many times said that we don't own any of this stuff, we are just holding it for the next generation. Yes, but will the next generation have as much interest in what we have as we do?

When I came into this hobby, I told my new wife Cindy (I collect wives also), that everything we found was for sale (actually when we got married we were both broke and we had to get out of this hole). We started buying and selling petroleum items as fast as we found them. At any given time we had a great "Accumulation" out there in the garage, but a year later it was all gone, and another pile replaced it.

So, where am I going with all this? What I am trying to tell/ask all of you is that what is worth $1000 today and you think this is a great investment, may only be worth $500 a few years from now. Remember, Jay Leno asks guests who Bush's vice president was and the average 25 year old doesn't know, so how can you expect someone a few years from now to know who Veedol was?

I have just reread the above and it sounds negative, I don't mean it to be, I just want all of us to really take a look at what we are taking our "very hard earned cash" and investing it in. If you don't have a 401K, but you have a garage filled with ????? that is where you have invested your money. How long should we hold on to this stuff, will it still be worth what we have in it when it is time to send that kid to college?

After again rereading the above, what I want to ask is, what should we be buying that will be at least worth what we paid for it when we decide to sell it?

I do want to add this: My wife once said that she is going to throw, all that stuff in the garage, in the hole with me when I die, maybe I can sell it where I am going since I can't sell it here.

Positive answers only (nah, I'm only kidding).

Jack Sim
The old man of the hobby.

Jack, I must politely disagree with you. I think ALL collectible markets were/are going through a price adjustment period. Some years the Model T's were extremely "hot" and pricing reflected this. Now the prices are leveling out. Same with muscle cars and just about everything else. This collapsing econmy is accelerating price adjustments also.

One should also collect ONLY as enjoyment, not as an investment. I never buy anything because I weigh the future investment of it against a current price. I buy it because I would like to add it to my collection. It's nice to know that our items do appreciate in value but that is secondary for me. The thrill of getting a new item and displaying it for my enjoyment is priceless. If one could predict future collectibles, he needs to work on Wall Street. I think our hobby is doing well for now.

Last night, my wife said something about if I were to lose my job, I could sell just a few items a month from my collection to keep us going. That is not an option!! I told her she would have to get a second job. LOL

Well i will add to this. You have to buy what you like! It might be gas and oil... lunch boxes, star wars, hot wheels and so on you get the picture. If it's worth a lot later down the road great... if not you shouldn't worry about it at least you have something you are enjoying. I have invested "x" amount in my 401k and have less than half now. At least with my gas and oil stuff... i still have it even if my Kan-o-tex Aviation globe is only worth $100 at least i still have it to enjoy.


I don't buy my gas stuff as an investment... some shouldn't look at this stuff as an investment. If you buy some stuff and sell it for a profit great... but to buy it only to hope in 10 years you will be able to retire or buy a condo in FL you might want to find somewhere else to invest.

I have over 20 computer that I call stock.
If you bought for an investment it is stock.

I look at kind of like Jarvis and Gary do. I buy this stuff for me not my future. I will also say that it is our job as a person who collects no matter what it is is to teach people about the hobby, thats how it keeps going. People dont always have to relate to the hobby to like it either. I know alot of guys and girls collect that was for you Tara, because of their intrest in muscle cars. I never have been a car guy and propbably never will. I got in this strictly by chance and it just kind of took over me. I will also say that I hope my investment holds its value, but if it doesnt at least i got to enjoy it.

I collect primarily because of my years as a Marathon dealer and auto tech, it's just an extention of who I am. I only collect Marathon, so I don't know if that's a collection or accumulation according to Jack.
I do try to collect the items that are in better condition and try not to buy lower end stuff. At least that way my family might have the opportunity realize some benefit after I'm gone.
In regard to where the market is going, I have always believed it and still do: the higher quality stuff more times than not is going to hold it's own. I've met some in the hobby that primarily collect mediocre to poor quality items. Unfortunately those items don't seem to sustain value in a down economy.
Having said that, if you're going to collect with recouping money down the road, buy the better stuff.

I agree with the above posts and Ohio Oil is an example of "collecting" because of memories, childhood, etc. For me, I never paid any attention to this stuff and still don't remember globes, visible pumps, or signage...except the Sinclair DINO because I liked dinosaurs. LOL I'm sure a lot of this stuff was still around in the late 50's-early 60's but there visibilty went in one ear (or eye) and out the other.

Then one day I went to the local Harley Dealer and there was a restored Tok 39 sitting there. I fell in love with it. I couldn't exactly recall seeing one nor did a flood of childhood memoroes come flooding back to me. But it WAS neat and I loved it. Not long after that encounter, I owned one and as we all know, things "snowballed" from there.

So you may remember these items or not. They WILL hold interest for some and will continue to do so in the future.

Jack, I've been around a full 60 years and I have to agree a lot with Gary! When any hobby or collection starts to get into the areas of "big money" (a relative term), it seems to draw the attention of people with a lot of excess money available to spend. They seem to enjoy playing on a playground that is familiar to them and consequently they have dabbled in petroleum collectibles for a number of years!
At any time when the economy suffers and that excess cash suffers, the first thing to go is the toys, hence a time of adjustment in values within the hobby! We are currently experiencing this phenomenon and I have to believe its nothing more than a reflection of the economy and really not to relative to the state of collecting gas and oil collectibles!
This brings up another point that is looming in the horizon and that is the interest in this particular hobby for future generations! If you're collecting as an investment, then this should be of consideration to you BUT if you're collecting as I am, and its to enjoy and preserve a bit of my past, then the relative value of the items is secondary. I often get a real bargain and sometimes pay WAY too much, but those items are on the walls of my shop for me and others like me to enjoy!
Hopefully, my heirs will be able to recoup most of my investment or even make a profit but I will be the only one that could answer that and I will be gone! My greatest wish is that there will be a large group of people at my sale with the desire to own a piece of history that the departed had collected in his later years.
This brings me to the direction that I believe I have taken with this hobby! I truly believe that I have been rescuing gas and oil artifacts from the scrap heaps of the world in order to get them into the hands of those that would preserve them for the future generations to enjoy, lest they be lost forever!
This brings up the question of desire for the future generations to continue with collecting things from an era of life that transpired before they were born! Will they even have the desire to continue with the legacy that I left behind?? I truly believe they will because I find myself searching out the really old and unusual items that came from an era that I was too young to participate in. My heirs may not be the ones with the desire to continue this legacy but there will be some younger individuals out there somewhere with the same burning desire that I have and hopefully they will all be standing in my yard bidding on the items I gathered and left behind for future generations to be able to enjoy!
I truly believe that the this hobby is in a healthy position for many generations to come and will certainly experience price adjustments from time to time as the economy and other factors may dictate, but the collecting of true gas and oil artifacts will probably go on forever, given the durability of those items that we are collecting.
Enough rambling for now, I hope you were able to get some sleep after all thos thoughts that went thru your head! I know its hard for me to sleep when theres something troubling me! Maybe putting it in print helped you sleep!
My opinion--nothing more----KEVIN

Jack, I was collecting stuff bout the same time Wayne Henderson started collecting . Hey we both grew up here in Richmond Va. I wanted a Gilbert and Barker -T 176 in the worst way! Ive had to sell most of what I finially was able to acumulate in Dallas years ago during the eighties when the economy went to the "Southern " tip of South America. I only kept a few maps and a few oil cans that were used during 1953 as I still own a 53 Ford Panel Delivery. With things going the way they are currently, I may wind up selling the truck too. I do what I do for my own enjoyment . If it turns a dime , fine if not , oh well. The Yuppie speculatord that ruined this hobby along with model kits discust me no end and personally , I hope they rot in ya'all know where ! Ed Shaver

Interesting discussion!
To me the term "collectible" conjures up images of those Franklin Mint pocket knifes, or Avon bottles. Maybe it's a regional thing.
To me, a "collection" means that you've taken time to learn about the item in question--who made it, when/where/how it was used, what makes it different than other similiar items. Also, a real collection has an inventory. You know what you have and can find a specific article in it quickly.
An "accumulation" is a bunch of vaguely interesting stuff. My maps and postcards are collections, our advertising matchbooks are an accumulation.

Values?
I'm painfully reaching the conclusion that my maps will probably not have any value to my heirs. I'm hoping that the documentation I have with them might at least save them from the dump. I do think that my postcards will increase in price as it's a >100 year old hobby.

Right now I think people are a lot more worried about their job security (or if retired, their traditional investments) than they are about increasing collections. It's certainly not a buyer's market becuase no-one is making it a seller's market.

Well....ED,
Wayne and I are the same age. Once he showed me a pic of him as a small child w/ a toy garage and some oil cans.... you been collecting a long time !!!!!

I would have to say I feel very fortunate to have started messing with this junk as what I still think of as the "golden age". Wayne and I did a lot of trading back then. A poor guy like me could afford to buy all I could carry home in the truck, with a fry on top !!!!...$100.00 FRY pumps, $25.00 A-38's $25.00 36-B's. 3 trips with 2 trucks to pickup $5000.00 of stuff on 99 9/10 a gallon gasoline...THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!!


I have a 22 yr COLLECTION of OBSOLETE Computer parts.....
Maybe the biggest of anyones...LOL

I let one question determine whether or not I pay the asking price for an item- "Can I get that amount of enjoyment out of owning, displaying, and sharing this item with others?"

If there comes a time it is worth many times more than I paid for it, I may consider selling it. If there comes a time the "market" deterrmines I was a financial idiot to buy it, what do I care-I have my original premise to fall back on.

My shop full of stuff investment versus my retirement funds over the last 18 months makes me look like a financial genius and my fund managers look like blithering idiots.

Personaly, my collection is based on the "WOW" factor. When somebody looks at it, and says WOW, I feel that I've done good. I collect CHEVRON stuff, because I worked for two CHEVRON dealers. The stuff I sold there was the post '71 logo, yet the stuff I tend to collect, is pre '71. I dont really know why.

I also have two, Model Ts, a bunch of coffee mugs, 1/64th scale race cars, two old cash registers, enough "vintage" office equipment to set up an "old office, model airplanes, some old "colectable" cards, more than 50 144th scale tanks, (complete with gameboard) antique kerosene lamps, a 60s era Coke machine, Lledo trucks, Matchbox cars, model trains (three different scales) wood planes, old candy machines, two windmills, a sleigh, old milk cans, skeleton keys, a bunch of old bikes, glass insulators, antique hand tools, numerous books (many signed by the authors) photos of airplanes & pilots (also autographed) and some stuff from the Viet Nam War, including a 3.75 folding fin rocket, I even have a Gandy Dancer. None of it, was purchased with the intention of any hopes of increasing value. I bought it, only because I wanted it.

If anything, that I own, is an investment in the future, for my family, its my business. I mean, of course, my company. I will gladly work, the long days, the hard jobs, in the miserable weather, so that my Wife & Daughter, wont have to. The pumps, oil cans, signs, maps, and everything else, are for me.

I also hope that none of this sounds negative. I just picked it up, because I WANTED it.

I think that I need a lunch box or two.... Or maybe just a Silver bullet.... I'll be back later.

Well I agree with this 100% & would of said it like this myself. I also agree with the 401K statement. OUCH & thats all I got to say about that

The pieces that I have acquired, unless I know I am going to do a spec pump, are for me to keep. They are to allow me to feel good about myself for obtaining them and doing with them what I want in case I want to "restore" something. I don't need the rarest pumps, signs, globe lenses, etc. to be happy for my efforts. I want items that have meaning to me. I've told my kids that they can do whatever they want with the stuff when I'm pushing up daisies. I don't have the expectation of making money on any of them. In the financial world and elsewhere, when there is a lot of money being bandied about to get an item (heightened demand), the price is likely to rise. If the interest is not there, the price may fall. Witness the run-up in real estate prices until a few years ago. Who knows if any petro items will see increased demand and increased prices in the future. To be so wrapped up in how much the stuff might be worth in the future as the primary consideration takes all the fun out of it for me. Dave Folck