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mobil100 #149325 Fri Aug 21 2009 02:25 PM
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Sounds like someone in Canada needs to write some books on Canadian pump manufacturing companies.

Are the fasteners [screws/bolts] used on Canadian pumps & air meters SAE or Metric ?

Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Dick Bennett #149336 Fri Aug 21 2009 03:36 PM
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Canada only converted to metric in December 1980. Anything beforem or slightly after this date would be SAE


Colin Latreille
Always looking for Quality Canadian Oil & Gas & Ford Signs
1970mach #149349 Fri Aug 21 2009 04:44 PM
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Bernie,
This is the last thing I am going to post for this topic, it think it like beating a dead horse.

I actually doubt they made ECOs in Canada, they might have assembled them there, but why would you have two sets of dies to press the metal, etc. Also I have proof that all the little parts were not made by SSEC/Bennett, they were made by small machine shops all over Michigan. This is only an opinion, I don't believe any ECOs were made in Canada. Here is a photo, taken in Muskegon in 1947. Note the wheels are metric or what ever they call it in Canada.

One more thing, I have brochures for ECOs in Spanish and Japanese, but they were made in the U.S. The Japanese one is pictured on my website.



This picture also shows that the water option was available since their introduction in 1947.


I suspose they could have done different things in Canada, why, who knows, but I have probably owned more ECO than anyone else, I once purchased 80 from one place and 21 from another, and I have purchased a number from Canada on ebay. I have never seen holes in the base, the screws holding the chrome on always looked bogus to me. I have even seen the studs on the black face ECOs changed to bolts, I have one in the garage now, but you are correct, they may have done things different in Canada.

It appears that Service Station Equipment Co., Limited had offices in Toronto, Montreal, Moncton Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver, and it looks like they had a plant in Toronto. This comes from information dated 1934.

mobil 1, you are also correct, this is why I never included Canadian pumps in my book, because I have never been able to find one piece of gas pump literatue that originated in Canada. Many Canadians sent me pictures of their pumps, but no information, I had no idea sometimes who made them, when they were made or any other information about them. It was best to exclude them rather then guess about their originality.

Jack Sim

Last edited by Jack Sim; Fri Aug 21 2009 05:19 PM.

Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Bernie #149363 Fri Aug 21 2009 05:53 PM
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Bernie
the serial number on mine is (8 U 4370) all the ecos out west here have the 3 outside screws
Andre

Last edited by mobil100; Fri Aug 21 2009 05:54 PM.
mobil100 #149365 Fri Aug 21 2009 06:03 PM
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Newly found and different examples of Signs, Cans, Pumps, and most everything else are found most everyday. Why would the Eco's be any different. No One person can possibly know EVERYTHING, and there seem to be several of these examples to prove there are different versions


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Jack Sim #149370 Fri Aug 21 2009 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jack Sim
Bernie,
This is the last thing I am going to post for this topic, it think it like beating a dead horse.

Jack Sim


That is very unfortunate. IMHO, simply because something does not conform to US standards is no reason to ignore it. When I was in school in the 1950s and 1960s, all our text books came from the US. Perhaps we should have ignored them too.

Quote:
Here is a photo, taken in Muskegon in 1947. Note the wheels are metric or what ever they call it in Canada.

Very interesting picture but metric was not adopted in Canada until 1980. So these are definitely NOT metric meters.

Quote:
I have never seen holes in the base, the screws holding the chrome on always looked bogus to me.

Could you explain to me what looks bogus about the holes and screws in these pics?

My purpose here is not to stir the pot but rather to search for information on my air meter. If that's considered sirring the pot then so be it.

If you share your methodology with me for searching for literature I would be more than pleased to do this here in Canada. Perhaps none exists but we will never know until we try.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread. smile

Dsc00891.jpg Dsc00892.jpg Dsc00893.jpg Dsc00894.jpg

Bernie
Retired but refuse to grow up.
Dick Bennett #149371 Fri Aug 21 2009 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
Sounds like someone in Canada needs to write some books on Canadian pump manufacturing companies.

Are the fasteners [screws/bolts] used on Canadian pumps & air meters SAE or Metric ?


As far as I know they are SAE.


Bernie
Retired but refuse to grow up.
Bernie #149390 Fri Aug 21 2009 07:58 PM
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OK, I lied, here is one more post.

In 1950, the John Wood Company, the Canadian affiliate of John Wood Company, operated four plants and warehouses in Canada. The Canadian plants manufactured a wide diversity of products including computing gasoline pumps, automatic tire infaltion equipment, and other oil trade equipment.

I took a good look at the pictures you supplied above. Let's talk about the upper plate, called the Emblem plate. Notice, the front cover has three holes in it. If they were going to hold the Emblem plate on with the center screw, why did they bother to drill the other two holes? The threaded insert appears to be a form of the old "Nutsert." I still have hundreds of them out in the garage, they are left over from when I built custom cars back in the 1980s. I have one more question, since none of the 100s of pictures of the ECO chrome show holes in them, why would a company spoil the looks of a nice smooth piece of chrome by drilling holes in them and putting a plain old slotted screw in it? Also, why doesn't every ECO in Canada have screw holes in them?

Bernie, you show me one piece of ECO literature with a picture of an ECO with screws through the chrome and I'll buy you a steak dinner and all the beer you can drink, at the "CTO Convention" or Iowa Gas next year.

Jack Sim

Last edited by Jack Sim; Fri Aug 21 2009 07:59 PM.

Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Jack Sim #149395 Fri Aug 21 2009 08:43 PM
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Maybe the guys at eco canada were smarter, I can change out my glass, without taking my eco apart, 3 screws thats all.
The photo of the metric pumps is correct, the rest of the world was metric at this time,except england.
I just do not get it! why it is so hard to except the possiblity that these were made from a canadian eco plant,maybe it was an option you could choose because of breakaged. Example kids or what ever, a 2 minute change for glass sounds great. Who knows why, I would say 4 out every 5 in western canada are this way
The thought that's it's not possible, is unreal, I would open my mind.
The proper thing to say would be (Wow I learn't something new when I thought I new everthing) I know I would be Happy
Andre

Last edited by mobil100; Fri Aug 21 2009 08:52 PM.
Jack Sim #149396 Fri Aug 21 2009 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jack Sim
OK, I lied, here is one more post.

Somehow I was hoping you'd be back. grin

Quote:
In 1950, the John Wood Company, the Canadian affiliate of John Wood Company, operated four plants and warehouses in Canada. The Canadian plants manufactured a wide diversity of products including computing gasoline pumps, automatic tire inflation equipment, and other oil trade equipment.

I was under the impression that parts were not manufactured in Canada. If this is the case, then the front chrome plates could have been modified here, even if manufactured in the US. Again, I believe that the screws were to expedite changing a broken glass. But this is just speculation.

Quote:
I took a good look at the pictures you supplied above. Let's talk about the upper plate, called the Emblem plate. Notice, the front cover has three holes in it. If they were going to hold the Emblem plate on with the center screw, why did they bother to drill the other two holes?

If not done at the plant, who would bother doing it and why? If, as you said previously, gas stations tolerated air pumps but didn't really like them, then why would the gas stations bother do the drilling? Why would a technician carry nutserts around and change the air meters he worked on? If not done at the plant then who did it and why? IMO they are too perfectly done to have been done with a hand drill. the meter I have was removed from the gas station wall by my brother-in-law, stayed in his garage for 20 years and was not altered in any way after it's removal.

Quote:
The threaded insert appears to be a form of the old "Nutsert." I still have hundreds of them out in the garage, they are left over from when I built custom cars back in the 1980s. I have one more question, since none of the 100s of pictures of the ECO chrome show holes in them, why would a company spoil the looks of a nice smooth piece of chrome by drilling holes in them and putting a plain old slotted screw in it?

I'm assuming that the pics you have are of US meters. That would explain the lack of screws.

Quote:
Also, why doesn't every ECO in Canada have screw holes in them?

I own an original numbers matching 1969 Plymouth GTX. It has a VIN plate on the fender. The format of VIN plates on vintage Mopars varied from one plant to another. Same car but different VIN plate format based on the plant. Therefore, the screw holes could have been made at only one plant, even to covers already made.

Quote:
Bernie, you show me one piece of ECO literature with a picture of an ECO with screws through the chrome and I'll buy you a steak dinner and all the beer you can drink, at the "CTO Convention" or Iowa Gas next year.

Jack Sim

Now that's a challenge I can't refuse. Just make sure that it's Canadian beer, eh? grin

If, as I surmise, it was a plant modification, it might be difficult to find an official pic of such a beast. But, never say never. whistle


Bernie
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Bernie #149399 Fri Aug 21 2009 09:13 PM
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...Jack, you might be buying me a steak dinner (or at least one of those killer club sandwiches at the hotel bar in Columbus)...

...is it possible that these 'three screw' Eco's were all remanufactured by a company in Canada?...that would explain the lack of 'brochure documentation', the consistency of the modification, and their pervasiveness in Western Canada...remember, Gulf Oil remanufactured a LOT of their pumps, replaced the tops, took off the corner stainless and, in some instances, filled the resulting mounting holes with lead...

...maybe some enterprising Canadian - say a supervisor of the plant in western Canada that remanufactured the Eco's thought 'if I put the Nutserts in here and use three bolts, I can make it easier to replace the glass next time'...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
gulfiend! #149410 Fri Aug 21 2009 09:27 PM
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There was (and possibly still is) a company in Hartford, CT that rebuilt Veeder-Root computers and Gilbarco and ECO air meters. Their name was PMP. I visited them around 1990 and took a ton of old ECO parts out that they didn't want. I have a drawer filled with probably 200 used ECO hooks, another drawer filled with used Emblem plates, Bezels and Scuff plates, none of which have any holes in them.
When they rebuilt the ECOs they put their own new faces and all new chrome on the rebuilt units, they didn't drill holes and use the old chrome again.

Since most ECOs were not repaired on site, they were taken back to the repairmans shop, anything could have been done there, I think you are correct they were "probably" drilled out by a rebuilder.

This is all, see you all in some other new post. DB has emailed me to shut-up.

Jack Sim

Last edited by Jack Sim; Fri Aug 21 2009 09:28 PM.

Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
gulfiend! #149411 Fri Aug 21 2009 09:30 PM
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gulfiend! Good thought
See now thats what i'm talking about, thiking outside the box. Not automatically saying no way can't be.

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