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What are these holes for?

NOT %100 POSITIVE BUT BEST I RECALL THERE WAS A SMALL BRACKET THAT MOUNTED UNDERNEATH THAT WOULD HOLD THE AIR LINE,LIGHT WIRES ETC.THE TIP OF THE BOLTS WOULD COME THROUGH THESE HOLES SLIGHTLY.THE HOLES ARE THREADED.I HAVE SEEN THIS ON SEVERAL BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.HOPE THIS HELPS.MARK

I have owned over 300 Eco air meters, and have never seen these holes before. I don't think they are factory, probably somebody felt that they were need for something.

Is you wall mount cast iron, or aluminum?

Jack Sim
Author, Air Meter Identification book and

Cast iron.

I have over 300 pieces of ECO literature and have restored over 100 ECOs and none of it shows anything about these holes. They were probably drilled by someone at the service station level, they are not factory. Think about it, if they were factory, why doesn't every wall mount have these holes in them?

Jack Sim

Thanks.

Bernie,May not have been factory as Jack said.I can tell you that I have had at least one and possibly two other meters with the same holes.As I said earlier it was to hold a small bracket in place.I assumed the bracket was to hold light wires or the air line although it did not have anything running through it when I bought it.I routed the light wires through it and left the bracket in place. The last one I had I ground the tips of the bolts off before I painted it so that it was smooth on the visible side.I have sold the meter with the bracket and can't send you any pictures. Did you check to see if the holes were threaded.I know they were on mine(they did not have nuts on the top side).There was definitely more than one meter that had the holes.They may have all been from the same location and the dealer or jobber went to a lot of extra work for such a small improvement.None of the meters I have now have the holes.It is not common to the meters as Jack said. Mark

Thanks Mark,

The holes are indeed threaded. I wonder if this is a trait of Canadian meters? Either Canadian-made or made for the Canadian market.

In addition to the holes, the face plate on mine has the names of 4 Canadian cities; and the upper and lower chrome pieces on the front have screws on the outside (one on the top piece and 2 on the bottom piece) that screw into a fitting on the inside of the cover. An obvious factory-done feature. Apparently, this is not the norm (at least for US meters). I can supply pics of this if need be.

Lastly, the serial number is not a standard US format: 8325E3

It originally came out of a big corporate garage here in Ottawa.

i have had ecos that have screws holding the chrome on and it definetly was not factory, unless it was the hillbilly factory. mine looked like selfdrilling screws just bored into the chrome. i dont know about yours, just speaking about my own experiences. chris

Hillbilly factory??? "I don't think so Tim".

Here are a few pics. Note that the holes in the cover are threaded with recepticles on the rear of the cover to accept the screws; the size, thread and type of screws all match; the holes in the chrome pieces are perfect. This doesn't look like it was done by a hillbilly.

I've had 3 eco's and all mine are 1 screw on the top and 2 screws on the bottom to hold the covers on. check the glass on this eco of mine. air - water

That is a very cool meter!! What is the serial number?

Since you are also located in Canada, this gives credence to my theory that these "external screw" models were either Canadian-made or made for the Canadian market. I am by no means an air meter expert but there has to be a logical explanation for these anomalies other than they were done by individuals.

These are the differences from the norm that I have noticed:

1- mine has a non-standard serial number: 8325E3
2- the upper and lower chrome pieces on the front are held onto the cover by screws driven from the outside
3- the holes in the chrome pieces are machine made as opposed to hand drilled
4- there are threaded "washers or grommets" attached to the inside of the front cover to receive the screws holding these 2 chrome pieces
5- the original colour is white as opposed to red
6- the face plate has the names of 4 Canadian cities on it as opposed to US cities
7- the threaded holes in the wall mount are not the norm

One has to ask why the screws were driven in from the outside. Well a very simple answer would be to be able to change a broken glass without having to take both the front and back covers off. By removing the three screws on the front, the glass could be changed easily and quickly. Perhaps we had more "juvenile delinquents" up here than in the US.

OK guys, you can come up with all the different ways chrome is held on, all the dirrerent ways the glass has different wording on them, but.....

About ten years ago I had access to the files of the Bennett Pump Company in Muskegon, Mich. They told me take what you want.
I know it sounds like bragging, but I have the largest collection of original ECO literature known.

There is not one piece of literature that I have (from 1947 to 2007) that shows any piece of chorme coming from the factory with hole in it to hold it on. This was done by people who service the ECOs, and the easiest way to put the chrome back on the meter was to drill holes and use bolts. Remember, guys, these were not show pieces, these were pieces of equipment that the service station owner didn't give a s.... about. Why, becauwe he had to purchase a piece of equipment in order to give something away, free.
If he left the meter on all night so his customers could use it when the station was closed, customers would throw the hose back toward the meter, and if it missed, it left the meter on, and if there was just one small leak in the system, his air compressor ran all night.
Then there were the customers that drove over the hose on the ground.
Then there was the customer that threw the hose back toward the meter, but missed, he hit the glass with the chuck.
Then there was the customer that came by and unscrewed the hose and took it with him.
This is why, when you find a "so called restorable ECO meter" it looks so bad. The service stations owners did not like them, they did not maintain them (such as draining the water), they just didn't care about them.

I have over 60 of them in my garage, and you wouldn't belive the conditions they are in.

Bernie:
1. Yes, it appears that ECO were made in Canada and they used a different numbering system.

2. No ECO chrome was ever offered from the factory with holes in it.

3. See No. 2.

4. Every early ECO had white fiber washers. Two under the Emblem plate, two under the Scuff plate, four under the screws holding the face on, four under the screws holding the rear cover on. Plus, if the unit is a very early one, there were four screws that held the Bezel on, they also had four white fiber washer under them. This was dropped early on as unnecassary. (I still have a quantity of NOS white washers that I use on the restored units I sell).

5. Most ECOs were sold out of local equipment dealers warehouses. You owned a station, you decided you needed a air meter. You didn't call the pump companies, you called the people who came out and serviced your station. You called them, said you were interested in a air meter. They sent out a salesman, he might bring a salesman sample (to see one, see my Air Meter Identifiation book), most likely he would just bring a bunch of brochures with him. Actually, his company might be a dealer for more than just the ECO, he might bring brochures for the Arno,or the Gilbarco meters also (see my website for pictures). He would show you all the different air meters that were available. You made your choice, he went back the the warehouse, they sent out someone who would install the air meter for you. Regardless, when he opened the box, no mater what company, the meter was RED. Now, if you were Mobil, and you wanted to purchase one ECO for every Mobil staion in Canada, you went to Bennett direct. The first question they would ask was "What color do you want?" I know from experiance that both Mobil and Marathon purchased a great number of ECO Model 90 Series Air meters and they were all white! I know, bucause I once purchased 80 white ECOs that were once used in Marathon stations.
6. Yes, because Service Station Equipment Company had a factory in Canada.
7. Yes, not the norm, just some bogus thing that was done to a few meters. I have, again, over 10 different ECO parts manuals, dating from 1947 to 2007, and none of them show any holes in the wall mount.

And, you are correct, the easiest way to repair them and get back to that brake job.

Today, there are people selling lights that attach to the pedestal, and ECO signs that attach to the pedestal. Twenty years from now, there will be people convinced that these are original.

I try and be very relaxed about the ECO. The dealer didn't like them, they didn't do any maintaince on them. The customers didn't apprecate them and mis-used them. The repairs to them were done at the lowest cost. The service station owner made more money using his floor jack than he ever did from the ECO.

One more thing, not many people know, but most of the rebuilds I do for old ECOs are not from restorers, but from service stations that still have them and are still using them. I have also sold completely restored units to service stations for everyday use.

Jack Sim

Jack,

Thank you for taking the time to provide us with this most informative and researched exposé on vintage ECO air meters. Your expertise in and experiences with them are a service to all of us.

Your points explain some of the anomalies, but perhaps not all.


Could Canadian-made air meter factories not have deviated from the "screwless" chrome front pieces as an efficiency upgrade for their service technicians? These holes are very straight and cleanly executed so do not look like they were made by a manual drill. It is well known that many countries adopt small changes in their manufacturing process to suit their clients/environment.


No ECO chrome was ever offered from US factories. But what about Canadian factories?


These are not washers in the typical sense but threaded metal "lugs" welded onto the back of the front cover to accept the screw. Attachment to the rear of the front cover is expertly done with no welds.


Do you have any documentation/literature on the Canadian factories that might explain these anomalies?


Again, any literature from the Canadian factories?


It's a wonder any of them survived at all.

Do you know where the Canadian factories were located?

Again, thanks for your replies.

canada also had clear vision pumps , just because someone only has literature on american clear vision pumps, It doesn't mean that canadian pumps are bogus. I've had a b/a- a huskey-and a texaco all like this. think of this as a learning expericence, thats the great thing thing about this site you learn things. someone once said bennett didn't have nozzles with bennett cast on them, well I have one. remember canada also had bennett pumps, as well as eco meters

Sounds like someone in Canada needs to write some books on Canadian pump manufacturing companies.

Are the fasteners [screws/bolts] used on Canadian pumps & air meters SAE or Metric ?

Canada only converted to metric in December 1980. Anything beforem or slightly after this date would be SAE

Bernie,
This is the last thing I am going to post for this topic, it think it like beating a dead horse.

I actually doubt they made ECOs in Canada, they might have assembled them there, but why would you have two sets of dies to press the metal, etc. Also I have proof that all the little parts were not made by SSEC/Bennett, they were made by small machine shops all over Michigan. This is only an opinion, I don't believe any ECOs were made in Canada. Here is a photo, taken in Muskegon in 1947. Note the wheels are metric or what ever they call it in Canada.

One more thing, I have brochures for ECOs in Spanish and Japanese, but they were made in the U.S. The Japanese one is pictured on my website.



This picture also shows that the water option was available since their introduction in 1947.


I suspose they could have done different things in Canada, why, who knows, but I have probably owned more ECO than anyone else, I once purchased 80 from one place and 21 from another, and I have purchased a number from Canada on ebay. I have never seen holes in the base, the screws holding the chrome on always looked bogus to me. I have even seen the studs on the black face ECOs changed to bolts, I have one in the garage now, but you are correct, they may have done things different in Canada.

It appears that Service Station Equipment Co., Limited had offices in Toronto, Montreal, Moncton Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver, and it looks like they had a plant in Toronto. This comes from information dated 1934.

mobil 1, you are also correct, this is why I never included Canadian pumps in my book, because I have never been able to find one piece of gas pump literatue that originated in Canada. Many Canadians sent me pictures of their pumps, but no information, I had no idea sometimes who made them, when they were made or any other information about them. It was best to exclude them rather then guess about their originality.

Jack Sim

Bernie
the serial number on mine is (8 U 4370) all the ecos out west here have the 3 outside screws
Andre

Newly found and different examples of Signs, Cans, Pumps, and most everything else are found most everyday. Why would the Eco's be any different. No One person can possibly know EVERYTHING, and there seem to be several of these examples to prove there are different versions

That is very unfortunate. IMHO, simply because something does not conform to US standards is no reason to ignore it. When I was in school in the 1950s and 1960s, all our text books came from the US. Perhaps we should have ignored them too.


Very interesting picture but metric was not adopted in Canada until 1980. So these are definitely NOT metric meters.


Could you explain to me what looks bogus about the holes and screws in these pics?

My purpose here is not to stir the pot but rather to search for information on my air meter. If that's considered sirring the pot then so be it.

If you share your methodology with me for searching for literature I would be more than pleased to do this here in Canada. Perhaps none exists but we will never know until we try.

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

As far as I know they are SAE.

OK, I lied, here is one more post.

In 1950, the John Wood Company, the Canadian affiliate of John Wood Company, operated four plants and warehouses in Canada. The Canadian plants manufactured a wide diversity of products including computing gasoline pumps, automatic tire infaltion equipment, and other oil trade equipment.

I took a good look at the pictures you supplied above. Let's talk about the upper plate, called the Emblem plate. Notice, the front cover has three holes in it. If they were going to hold the Emblem plate on with the center screw, why did they bother to drill the other two holes? The threaded insert appears to be a form of the old "Nutsert." I still have hundreds of them out in the garage, they are left over from when I built custom cars back in the 1980s. I have one more question, since none of the 100s of pictures of the ECO chrome show holes in them, why would a company spoil the looks of a nice smooth piece of chrome by drilling holes in them and putting a plain old slotted screw in it? Also, why doesn't every ECO in Canada have screw holes in them?

Bernie, you show me one piece of ECO literature with a picture of an ECO with screws through the chrome and I'll buy you a steak dinner and all the beer you can drink, at the "CTO Convention" or Iowa Gas next year.

Jack Sim

Maybe the guys at eco canada were smarter, I can change out my glass, without taking my eco apart, 3 screws thats all.
The photo of the metric pumps is correct, the rest of the world was metric at this time,except england.
I just do not get it! why it is so hard to except the possiblity that these were made from a canadian eco plant,maybe it was an option you could choose because of breakaged. Example kids or what ever, a 2 minute change for glass sounds great. Who knows why, I would say 4 out every 5 in western canada are this way
The thought that's it's not possible, is unreal, I would open my mind.
The proper thing to say would be (Wow I learn't something new when I thought I new everthing) I know I would be Happy
Andre

Somehow I was hoping you'd be back.


I was under the impression that parts were not manufactured in Canada. If this is the case, then the front chrome plates could have been modified here, even if manufactured in the US. Again, I believe that the screws were to expedite changing a broken glass. But this is just speculation.


If not done at the plant, who would bother doing it and why? If, as you said previously, gas stations tolerated air pumps but didn't really like them, then why would the gas stations bother do the drilling? Why would a technician carry nutserts around and change the air meters he worked on? If not done at the plant then who did it and why? IMO they are too perfectly done to have been done with a hand drill. the meter I have was removed from the gas station wall by my brother-in-law, stayed in his garage for 20 years and was not altered in any way after it's removal.


I'm assuming that the pics you have are of US meters. That would explain the lack of screws.


I own an original numbers matching 1969 Plymouth GTX. It has a VIN plate on the fender. The format of VIN plates on vintage Mopars varied from one plant to another. Same car but different VIN plate format based on the plant. Therefore, the screw holes could have been made at only one plant, even to covers already made.


Now that's a challenge I can't refuse. Just make sure that it's Canadian beer, eh?

If, as I surmise, it was a plant modification, it might be difficult to find an official pic of such a beast. But, never say never.

...Jack, you might be buying me a steak dinner (or at least one of those killer club sandwiches at the hotel bar in Columbus)...

...is it possible that these 'three screw' Eco's were all remanufactured by a company in Canada?...that would explain the lack of 'brochure documentation', the consistency of the modification, and their pervasiveness in Western Canada...remember, Gulf Oil remanufactured a LOT of their pumps, replaced the tops, took off the corner stainless and, in some instances, filled the resulting mounting holes with lead...

...maybe some enterprising Canadian - say a supervisor of the plant in western Canada that remanufactured the Eco's thought 'if I put the Nutserts in here and use three bolts, I can make it easier to replace the glass next time'...

There was (and possibly still is) a company in Hartford, CT that rebuilt Veeder-Root computers and Gilbarco and ECO air meters. Their name was PMP. I visited them around 1990 and took a ton of old ECO parts out that they didn't want. I have a drawer filled with probably 200 used ECO hooks, another drawer filled with used Emblem plates, Bezels and Scuff plates, none of which have any holes in them.
When they rebuilt the ECOs they put their own new faces and all new chrome on the rebuilt units, they didn't drill holes and use the old chrome again.

Since most ECOs were not repaired on site, they were taken back to the repairmans shop, anything could have been done there, I think you are correct they were "probably" drilled out by a rebuilder.

This is all, see you all in some other new post. DB has emailed me to shut-up.

Jack Sim

gulfiend! Good thought
See now thats what i'm talking about, thiking outside the box. Not automatically saying no way can't be.