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Shell Kerosene flange sign #158896
Fri Nov 06 2009 07:28 PM
Fri Nov 06 2009 07:28 PM
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Carpinteria, Ca. USA
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hotcidr Offline OP
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I have an opportunity to purchase a Shell Kerosene "mint, nos" condition sign. Is there a way to tell an original from a repop? I know there are a lot of phoney ones out there
thanks for your help
Ray

Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #158900
Fri Nov 06 2009 07:48 PM
Fri Nov 06 2009 07:48 PM
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So. Ca.
advertologist Offline
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Hello Ray, I hope your not getting it from Treasureray-
All mine (4) on the inside of the flange at the bottom reads American Artworks Coch. Ohio


RANDY
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: advertologist] #158903
Fri Nov 06 2009 07:59 PM
Fri Nov 06 2009 07:59 PM
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La Porte, In
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There was a couple PHONY ones showed up at the Auburn show!
The guy sold a kerosene flange then put out another the next morning! BEWARE! NONE of these were marked???
He was the same guy from Ohio selling the fake AIR signs and Fake chevy signs!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: tomzcollectiblez] #158957
Sat Nov 07 2009 11:11 AM
Sat Nov 07 2009 11:11 AM
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dallas, georgia USA
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I sent Treasureray a note about his Sinclair license plate toppers and told him he should at least note that they are repo's in his auctions but got not reply. He keeps on selling them and people keep paying ridiculous prices for them. Guess if ya got a good thing going why ruin it huh? Theirs a sucker born every minute.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Rick Berrong] #158959
Sat Nov 07 2009 11:29 AM
Sat Nov 07 2009 11:29 AM
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So. Ca.
advertologist Offline
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I also sent treasureray a question about his pepsi string holder with the same response....when you get that kinda response- YOU DON'T BID


RANDY
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: advertologist] #159104
Sun Nov 08 2009 11:47 AM
Sun Nov 08 2009 11:47 AM
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North Dakota
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Koolmotor Offline
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Hey Ray,

So far, it does not sound as if your question has been answered sufficient enough to actually inform you as to whether your sign is a repop or not. You say there are a lot of phoney Shell Kerosene signs out there - says who - and if you know who maybe they could answer this thread and help us out with some identifying features? If there are a lot of phonies, are they different from each other? I can't say that I have seen any.

I take it that you had the sign in your hands or was the concern just brought forward so that you could have the information when the sign was delivered? If you had the sign in your hands, what was it that raised concern about the sign possibly being a reproduction? Was the sign being offered at a price to hard to believe? I do believe that some people do think that if a sign was offered way too cheap that it must be a repop. Maybe there are deals yet to be had.

We need to actually come up wth some concrete evidence that the sign is not authentic. Was the font incorrect, was the font size incorrect, were the flange mounting holes displaced, was the paint color off, was the metal thickness incorrect?

We all would like to have repop signs marked. So this sign is not marked - many signs are not marked and this does not mean they are repops. Does anyone have any original flange Shell signs with Gasolene or Motor Oil that are marked - I'd venture to say that they are not..

Just because a person has several signs to sell doesn't indicate they are repops. It wasn't too long ago, (and is still posible today) that we were able to get into gas station bulk facilities and find find boxes of globe lenses, a stack of the same sign, and obviously cans.

I have seen several of the Shell Kerosens signs and they appear authentic to me - but then again I'm not an expert. The patina on the signs would be extremely hard to duplicate let alone the appearance of erupted filiform corrosion. The paint color is dead on and indicative of the thickness that would have been applied many years ago. By the way, has anyone conducted a lead test to determine if the paint has lead?

I don't know Treasureray from Adam - I have not conducted any business with him whatsoever. Is it not possible that he did score multiples of this sign? I do understand that if he doesn't provide a response to your reply that you may want to form an opinion that the sign is a repop, but then again it does not actully prove that the sign is a repop.

Let us not make a judgement call until we have unquestionable evedence in hand. And if it was determined that these signs are repops the person selling them may also have been unaware that they are. Remember, we are to presume individuals as being innocent until proven guilty.

Let's find out about this sign and if it is a reproduction then let's get it listed as a known reproduction.

Thanks for reading,

Koolmotor George

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Koolmotor] #159110
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:05 PM
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:05 PM
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Downey , CA
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I currently own a Shell Gasoline flange and have had the Motor oil and Kerosene versions in the past and all have been marked by American Art Works. Treasureray sells many reproduction signs and toppers IMO.


Dennis Leith / Always looking for unusual Gilmore Oil Company items and Automobilia Displays
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: pumpingethyl] #159113
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:36 PM
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:36 PM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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I know treasureray & he has been doing this kind of thing for many years...he has fooled many many people with his repops....

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: pumpingethyl] #159116
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:44 PM
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:44 PM
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North Dakota
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So, American Art Works is the only company that made Shell flanged signs, American Art Works always marked their signs, and Treasureray sells many reproductions signs - therefore the Shell Kerosene signs must be reproductions. OK?! I would then say - if there is any uncertainty in your mind simply don't buy it. If you like the sign, and you don't care if it is a repop or not, and the price is right, - then by all means go ahead and buy it.

I really don't know and I'm not totally convinced for sure if they are real or not. I have one, looks real to me, I don't care if it turns out to be a repop, bought it at a great price, I like it, and until a definitive authority concludes without a doubt they are reproductions I can only conclude they are real.

Maybe it is time the hobby has a certification service just like the coin hobby. Then the gas collectibles could be authenticated,condition graded,and be marked in some type of nondetrimental way to identify the collectible as being certified.

Koolmotor

Last edited by Koolmotor; Sun Nov 08 2009 01:49 PM. Reason: certification comment
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Koolmotor] #159118
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:52 PM
Sun Nov 08 2009 01:52 PM
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Nokomis, Il. USA
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I dont want to rock the boat here but back when I worked for the other company I sold a whole stack of shell kerosene, gasoline & motor tin flange sign for a man who I know for sure cleaned out several bulk plants, he was a big shell collector. This would of been 2002 & 2003. I do not remember any of them being marked anything. But I could be wrong. I have not seen these new repop shell kerosene signs yet, but thanks for letting me know. Dan

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Mattgas] #159122
Sun Nov 08 2009 02:08 PM
Sun Nov 08 2009 02:08 PM
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Four Corners
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I have not seen them in person but from what I have been told the shell repop signs have corners that are to square. Again just what I have heard.


Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: itsagas] #159130
Sun Nov 08 2009 03:12 PM
Sun Nov 08 2009 03:12 PM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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I have seen the repos in person & the metal maybe be different as the original seem more sturdy or it maybe the thickness of the metal, paint is very thin compared to the original...

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #159233
Mon Nov 09 2009 01:00 AM
Mon Nov 09 2009 01:00 AM
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Cheyenne, WY
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Right now on Ebay there is one from treasureray #400084226676 and another from a different seller that says his is original #260502637575 Heck of a difference in price but you can compare the two.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #159254
Mon Nov 09 2009 07:07 AM
Mon Nov 09 2009 07:07 AM
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La Porte, In
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I just looked thru TreasureRay's feedback and he has sold at least 7 in the last few months! Plus look at the buyers!!! Same picture in EVERY auction!
I also compared it to the aged original that is also on ebay and they are very similar...Hole placement is slightly different!
Once they make a repo this close to original it's BEST to avoid all together UNLESS you get one marked by maker...
Just my 2 cents...

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: pumpingethyl] #159782
Thu Nov 12 2009 09:57 PM
Thu Nov 12 2009 09:57 PM
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U.S.A.
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strnge Offline
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I just checked his past sales. He relists the same things every few weeks. He is a con man.


Mike
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: strnge] #160042
Sat Nov 14 2009 08:24 PM
Sat Nov 14 2009 08:24 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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...we should use the power of Oldgas and report every phony listing this guy comes up with to eBay...enough complaints and he'll be gone...

...here's another fake sign being passed off as old...it looks like it might be something Vintage Concepts did a while ago, to judge by the very small code in the right hand corner of both sides of the sign...can anyone confirm?...I know this sign is fake, just don't knnow if VC Signs had anything to do with it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380176010818


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160110
Sun Nov 15 2009 11:12 AM
Sun Nov 15 2009 11:12 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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...$414.09 with a little more than 8 hours left...

...just heard back from VC Signs, and the sign in question was indeed made in 1999, and clearly marked as such...

...I just emailed the seller again, and told him...let's see if he'll 'man up' and tell the unlucky high bidder the truth...he's going to learn the truth one way or another...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160193
Sun Nov 15 2009 08:32 PM
Sun Nov 15 2009 08:32 PM
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So. Ca.
advertologist Offline
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champion sign brought 565.00....whew


RANDY
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160214
Sun Nov 15 2009 10:02 PM
Sun Nov 15 2009 10:02 PM
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So. Ca.
advertologist Offline
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This is a partial email I sent Ray about his reproduction champion flange sign.

RAY SHOPPE, ARE YOU AWARE THE CHAMPION SIGN YOU ARE SELLING WAS MADE BY VC SIGNS IN 1999. RAY TYPE IN OLDGAS.COM....

Randy, I read it ..and was really shocked when I read your wonderful comment you left "Hope you didnt get it from Treasureray" about my Shell signs also?? Whats with that *****?? after all the stuff I sold you over the years?? BTW they are NOT fake and different companies made the Damn shell signs over the years and some WERE NOT MARKED OR DATED?? Maybe yours is.. who knows? I also answered your string holder question.. And the Pepsi String Holders I said were made in the 70s I believe ..I guess you didnt read it before leaving the other damn comment you left!! Especially After I just sold you a super rare PArd Dog Food clock also ,, but you dont even mention how damn nice it was or all the great items you bought from me over the years!! Only BS comments you left,,,Thanks Randy..
And not one of those cheap ***** ******s have ever bought or seen any of my supposed repos...and most of those trailer park hillbullys from NC wouldnt know the difference anyway!!
Ray...

Ray always has some original items mixed with reproductions-

Ray defiantly dosen't think to much of us OLDGASERS



RANDY
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: advertologist] #160237
Mon Nov 16 2009 07:05 AM
Mon Nov 16 2009 07:05 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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...great!...you mean he's reading our forum?....that's awesome - I only hope he decides to come to one of the many gas shows I and my fellow 'NC hillbullys' attend, and introduces himself...after the emails I've received from him, we'll have lots to talk about...

...hey Ray - I'll be emailing your high bidder after he leaves feedback for this sign, and telling him the truth about it...have you decided how are you going to ask him NOT to leave feedback?...won't that be awkward for you!


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160366
Mon Nov 16 2009 09:12 PM
Mon Nov 16 2009 09:12 PM
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Indiana
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t-ray Offline
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First of all, I don't post on forums but thought I would after all the negative comments posted here about me! Yes I buy and sell on Ebay ..and If someone receives an item, doesn't like it when they get it, I will give a refund after its returned. This is my policy and is the way I do business on Ebay. Paypal also protects a buyer as well.
I dont claim to be an expert or "SignGod", like some people here but I try to
describe an item as best as I can with hi-res photos.
Re: Auctions.. I am not deleting an ongoing auction or editing an Ebay description just because someone emails looking at just a photo from my auction, and from that, thinks it might not be an original? Especially when it is "Gulfiend".. the NC Hillbilly I referred to earlier! He sells on Ebay with name "single-g" and just sold an All 100% Original Neon Rexall Sign, item #150386091708 for $2000. After disputing his 70s Clear Neon tubing wasnt original to that Rexall Sign and his laughable BS description,he has been on a mission ever since. How could a 1940s Rexall Sign with all that rust needing sheet metal replaced still have the Original Glass Neon?
And just because "Advertologist" owns 4 Shell signs with AM on it doesnt mean one sold w/o AM isnt original. Mine and This beat up one on Ebay item # 260502637575 doesnt have AM on it so maybe the 4?? "Advertologist" own are fakes?? Why would a collector own 4 of the exact same sign anyway?
Sorry but I never bought any sign that came with a COA either.. especially when your at a weekend swap meet or out of town show! Some dealers ...like "Gulfiend", will take your money and then head for the hills. And good luck getting a refund from them when you arrive to pick it up "seeing in person" your rusted & rotted $2000 Rexall Sign you bought. Of course, His description says "All Sales Final" for that sign so he isnt responsible.
I thought VC Signs only made porcelain signs, so if they did make a Champion sign then I am sure it was only 100 (like the porcelain ones) and now 10 yrs later are quite valuable also. If my buyer doesnt want the sign I will gladly give him a refund, but I will allow him to look it over and then decide for himself.
T-Ray

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160381
Mon Nov 16 2009 11:09 PM
Mon Nov 16 2009 11:09 PM
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Missoula, Montana
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The recent "Frontier Casino" pump topper that ended yesterday, sold for $90.00! I believe it to be a re-production too. I asked "treasureray" if it was original and he said that he bought a large amount of them and a guy he said they were original! Just another example of deception.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: freddiesgarage] #160383
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:43 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:43 AM
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Mass
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T-ray, Welcome to Oldgas smile smile


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: KZ1000] #160384
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:08 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:08 AM
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South of St. Louis, MO USA
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Welcome to Oldgas.com Shop Talk T-ray.
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Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Oldgas] #160396
Tue Nov 17 2009 06:45 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 06:45 AM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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freddiesgarage..... i have to agree with you....after seeing this happen for at least 20 years & pre ebay, you start to wonder....i understand a person getting fooled & buying a repo or fatansy piece a few times however getting stung time after time of multiple items & different versions of the same items seems unrealistic.....then when it happens with clocks, celluloid coca cola buttons, toppers, signs etc. etc. etc., things just get a little suspicious ... ...while it seems very obvious most of these types of sellers know what they are doing, they stand behind, i give full refunds....that is very nice but what about the other 95% of the people who do get this garbage & think it original???.......its also denial when you can't address the problem & throw a smoke screen up blaming the other guy for some insignificant minor problem thats exaggerated & blown out of proportion.......

I love ebay & will never stop buying there.....its a fantastic place to get a bargain & a greatr piece you may never see anywhere else, however its a great place to get ripped off also.....if you don't know what you are buying, do some research & ask some of the experts..........

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160397
Tue Nov 17 2009 06:57 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 06:57 AM
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Goodman WI USA
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Terry Flannery Offline
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Do as I do, don't buy anything off Ebay. I'm not registered on Ebay,never was, never will. Life is good without Ebay guys.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160398
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:03 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:03 AM
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Indiana
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t-ray Offline
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Freddie...YOU BELIEVE??? just because I was honest enough to tell you I bought a stack of them when I was in Vegas?? The Pioneer topper ISNT a Pump Topper.. and excuse me for buying a quantity for resale?? I guess you wouldnt??

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160399
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:09 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:09 AM
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t-ray Offline
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ROADRELICS
I see your still selling those daggone AC SPARKPLUG BIRDECAGES for $975 time after time after all these years? Wow, That must have been some huge Mobil Garage to hold all of those Birdcages in their attic? I saw the one you had in Springfield for just $550.. but I guess that one was a "second" huh? Strange all yours are missing all the "Old Sparkplugs" also? I guess they fell out of the boxes while you were moving them out of the attic, huh? BTW are you and the guy in Ohio still best friends...you know the one that makes entire Neon Cleveland Clocks and repo clock faces?

Why would one garage keeper have so many, as the sales reps gave one to a
customer, maybe two if he was ****ing his daughter, not the hundred or so
that you have sold !!!!!

Strange ALL Your clock faces are always MINT!! Most I have ever seen are worn!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160404
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:53 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:53 AM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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there we go folks "more smoke" from ray..... he has it down pat....


just for fun Ray i'll put a photo here for you of the original boxes they came in, dated with a post office ship date...i usually don't stoop this low to even answer somebody who is trying to put up a smoke screen , however you are an exception.....i don't think you really know me ray , i don't go or setup at the Springfield show however i see you all time at the "indy ad show"...looking for old clock cases & other types of cases to put new faces in....some of us know all of your tricks


as far as talking about my friends from ohio who makes repo neon clocks thats "WAYNE WOODRUM" & most people into clocks know Woody & you're right he is a friend of mine & a stand up guy who tells people his clocks are repo........hey Ray here is one shelf of my many original clocks & i have 100's, i sure don't need to buy your made up fake fantasy stuff....


hey ray, lets see some of your original boxes or any kind of documentation from your many different lines of multiples......i am sure good ol ray will come up with some more smoke how i could get these boxes anywhere & put all these cages in them, then seal them up, then put an original post office tag with the date of 1951 on the big original box.... believe me he will have an answer to deflect the interest in the original topic about the shell kerosene flange which i would bet my life savings, is a repo.....do you wana take me up on it ray??? we will have an independent expert then have a carbon dated paint test....My bird cages against your flanges for all the money ray ??? seems like a good bet to me if you are sure of your merchandice.....

lets see, i will bet he puts up a smoke screen about my porcelain neons next & will not want anything to do with this bet........


just to set straight some of the lies, i have never sold one on ebay for $975, check my feedback, these boxes never came with original sparks plug, the dealer was suppose to put his old ones in which were appropiate , read the display......













Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160406
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:19 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:19 AM
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Guthrie, OK. 73044
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Seth Robbins Offline
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Darryl....there is no need for you to justify, better yet DIGNIFY the accusations leveled by this guy.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160407
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:27 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:27 AM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
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sorry Seth,i know i don't need to justify this to you, however there are some people here who may need some justification.... there are a couple of guys who get me worked up & he is one of them...i just want the people here to know the REAL RAY.......time to leave for the course & relax...it may be the last week we have...

Last edited by roadrelics; Tue Nov 17 2009 09:06 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160413
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:22 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:22 AM
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Indiana
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t-ray Offline
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Indiana
ROADRELICS
YEP YOUR ONE OF THE EXPERTS! Thanks for telling us all how you put birdcages in the new boxes, printed the tag and sealed them with the 1951 tag on it! You know all about it!! Who aged the boxes for you? Funny all the Birdcages are MINT but all the boxes have water damage and stains. But yet the Cages remain MINT!! Hmmm!

Appreciate the Neon clock pics also..just what I am talking about. All the ones you have are MINT and Spotless Clean with perfect Neon !! Did you put the new neon in them when you had them apart?? The DX clearly has New Neon in it! And all your "Outside Spinner glass" is MINT ALSO. Woody sells all of these parts as I am sure you know. Most "Original" Spinner glass have flaked on the ones I have seen with bad neon and transformers..but not yours!! Of course, any friend of Woody's I would expect them to have nothing but mint clocks in their home anyway!!

All my Kerosene flanges arent mint as the few I have left now have paint wear and dark spots. Ill gladly sell you one for $250 and you can do all the testing you want.

NOW TELL US ALL ABOUT all the garbage repops you had made and sold to "Famous Daves Bar B Q Restaurant"?? Like the Orange United sign and others! The Famous Daves here where I live has so much new and worthless signs hanging on the walls ..its pathetic. That must have been a big SCORE For you!!

My Hires sign ..item 380178375302 on Ebay has the original wood crate shown!!

You have sold so much to all the restaurants you can afford to take off for a Golf Day!! Some people have to actually work for a living.

What restaurant are you going to try selling all your neon signs to ...that you cant sell on Ebay?

What a deal..all 58 signs for only 400K!! or get a bargain and buy 20 for only 125K!! Do you deliver?

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160416
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:44 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,038
On the plains of Colorado
Thunder II Offline
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Thunder II  Offline
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On the plains of Colorado
This is getting good...


Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160420
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:10 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Old Iron  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Listen to Jim; at least try to keep it somewhat civil. I try to promote the hobby. How do think newbies and people considering entering our hobby are reactingto this? Just something to think about IMO.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Old Iron] #160427
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:32 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,346
Oneida IL USA
G
gasoildude Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Oneida IL USA
eek eek I feel a lock coming on on this one!


Wanted Owens Motor Oil & Mobiloil Gargoyle.
Brad Ralston & my website is
www.petrobarn.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gasoildude] #160428
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:34 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,038
On the plains of Colorado
Thunder II Offline
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Thunder II  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,038
On the plains of Colorado
Or maybe a set of gloves....


Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Thunder II] #160429
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:39 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Ryan Underthun Online content
Moderator
Ryan Underthun  Online Content
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
As long as there is no name calling and the rules of the forum are followed, this will stay open. It is being watched closely.

Ryan


FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ryan Underthun] #160430
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:39 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 10:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Ryan Underthun Online content
Moderator
Ryan Underthun  Online Content
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
The gloves idea is a good one, we could host the first oldgas PPV boxing match!


FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ryan Underthun] #160433
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:06 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,179
St. Louis, MO, USA
J
Jack Sim Offline
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J
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,179
St. Louis, MO, USA
I think this topic is great as long as it stays civil, both old timers and newbies can learn something here. And that is, have the most knowledge you can get before you buy anything.

Jack Sim


Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Jack Sim] #160444
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:41 AM
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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t-ray  Offline
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T
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
Gloves.. ha ha.. sorry I am a lover and not a fighter! If I could, I would like to clarify Roadrelics "gets me worked up" post above towards me so you may understand why he said this a little better. Maybe he can add to this. I dont know.

Roadrelics bought many years ago a Pepsi License topper from me on Ebay and paid around $500 for it. He gets it and no complaints..so I list another one for sale which didnt sell for as much the second time..and usually never does. Unknown to him, which I didnt tell him either, I bought a stack of these at a Pepsi convention in Indpls. He saw me selling the second one and went raging mad sending me all these emails demanding a refund claiming it was a repop etc etc...all because I have a quantity of them? I refused but finally gave him a refund to get him off my back. He then has made it his lifes goal to post nothing but negative comments about me because of that incident as some kind of retaliation towards me. Dont get me wrong I am not a saint or expert ...and yes I have probably bought & sold a few repops over the years as it is hard not to do these days. Yes I have also put a new face in a Pam Clock also but once you see the original face a repop is almost obvious.

But over the years I have heard so many rumors and facts regarding him that I never posted it until now. He always seems to me to be the all knowing expert when someone makes a post here...when in reality his judgement may be totally wrong.

I personally have no problem with someone wanting to compare a sign I have to another one in person holding both examples and making opinions, but looking at a few pics and then thinking a sign is a repop and posting it here on Oldgas without even holding it in your hands or comparing it in person seems absurd.
t-ray

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160446
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:16 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,515
North Jersey
M
MetroPetro Offline
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MetroPetro  Offline
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M
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,515
North Jersey
"I am not a saint or expert ...and yes I have probably bought & sold a few repops over the years "

Probably?

A few?


Looking for photos, etc from 60s era Shell-A-Rama gas station and Pal's Diner, Rt. 17 Mahwah, NJ
& US or state highway signs, shields, route markers
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160447
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:31 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,038
On the plains of Colorado
Thunder II Offline
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Thunder II  Offline
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Posts: 3,038
On the plains of Colorado
Originally Posted By: t-ray


I personally have no problem with someone wanting to compare a sign I have to another one in person holding both examples and making opinions, but looking at a few pics and then thinking a sign is a repop and posting it here on Oldgas without even holding it in your hands or comparing it in person seems absurd.
t-ray


I dont know either one of you gentlemen, but I DO have a question for YOU Ray. What was it that you said earlier?

"I see your still selling those daggone AC SPARKPLUG BIRDECAGES for $975 time after time after all these years? Wow, That must have been some huge Mobil Garage to hold all of those Birdcages in their attic? I saw the one you had in Springfield for just $550.. but I guess that one was a "second" huh? Strange all yours are missing all the "Old Sparkplugs" also? I guess they fell out of the boxes while you were moving them out of the attic, huh?"

And lets not forget....

"YEP YOUR ONE OF THE EXPERTS! Thanks for telling us all how you put birdcages in the new boxes, printed the tag and sealed them with the 1951 tag on it! You know all about it!! Who aged the boxes for you? Funny all the Birdcages are MINT but all the boxes have water damage and stains. But yet the Cages remain MINT!! Hmmm!"

this is really starting to get funny!!!!


Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: MetroPetro] #160449
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:36 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
When you replace the face in a clock do you advertise that fact in your auctions, or is the clock sold as "original"? Looking at some of your auctions, I get that queasy feeling in my gut, that not all is "kosher" I could be wrong, often am. But, since we're all friends here. I think my money will stay in my pocket, where it comes to your auctions.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #160451
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:47 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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Guthrie, OK. 73044
I think all of us that "deal" in this merchandise have at one time or another come across a "quantity" of original merchandise. I one time found a case of Borden's tin signs, and another time, I found a few cases of Hamm's beer signs.

That's over the course of a 10-year career which saw probably $5 million in sales of original petroliana and it happened to me twice....

Now, I won't say who (being in the insurance industry has made me very cognizant of liability!) but I've seen one of the participants of this thread at shows in Indiana & Ohio with a 29.5" Phillips Ethyl Shield AND a 24" Pennzoil Brown Bell. I personally witnessed each sign sell, and sell, and sell, and sell, and sell.....there was a stack of each (and many other signs) in his/her vehicle. Just another quantity find I guess.....

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160455
Tue Nov 17 2009 01:10 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 01:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
...I'm going to post once more about all of this, as I feel for the most part 'treasure ray' is doing a bang-up job of introducing himself to the Oldgas community... eek

....read the questions asked and 'answered' for the Champion sign:

Nov 11, 2009
Q: Any date or manufacturer name on this sign?
A: Hi I dont see any name or date on it..

Nov 14, 2009
Q: what is printed in small lettering in the right hand corner on each side of the sign?
A: Hi sorry I dont know as I already have it packed up.

...now, anyone with eyes can see a small code in the right hand corner of this sign, in the photos...it's hard to make out, but there's no doubt that it's there on both sides of the sign...and anyone with a brain can see that the 'answers' posted are less than helpful, at best...

Originally Posted By: t-ray
After disputing his 70s Clear Neon tubing wasnt original to that Rexall Sign and his laughable BS description,he has been on a mission ever since. How could a 1940s Rexall Sign with all that rust needing sheet metal replaced still have the Original Glass Neon?

...here's 'treasure ray's' reply after I told him his sign was a fake, and that I would inform the buyer as such if he wouldn't:

Yeah a B-I-G "Oil can and Map" buyer like you couldnt afford it anyway!! I am waiting to inform the buyer of your Rexall sign you just sold also.. re: Clear neon being all original?? Clear Neon is new, moron!! They didnt use clear tubing neon in the 40s or put it on Rexall Signs.

...seriously? laugh...any neon people want to chime in here?...listen, genius - neon glows bright red or reddish orange when lit, that's why the glass is clear...the first neon sign used clear glass!!!

...your little 'neon sign' routine only started after I commented on how convenient it was for your sign to be packed up - so no further information would be available - and that your sign was a fake...my only 'mission' here is to keep a misinformed buyer from getting ripped-off...if you don't tell them, and no one else does, he/she might think the sign is real and old for years, until they try and sell it and learn otherwise...LONG after your 'money-back' offer has expired...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160465
Tue Nov 17 2009 01:47 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 26
Missoula, Montana
F
freddiesgarage Offline
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freddiesgarage  Offline
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F
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 26
Missoula, Montana
I guess one thing that really bothers me personally is when a single item like a rare "Pioneer Club" (Las Vegas)license plate topper (I will use this as an example) hits the market through e-Bay or any other source in high volume, it can bring the value down over time and make it less sought after and valuable by collectors like ourselves. I personally have a original "Pioneer Club" topper that was given to me by my sister in-law when she lived and worked in Las Vegas. I value this topper and had it appraised at between $250.00 to $300.00 because of it's condition vintage. The last one that treasureray sold that ended last weekend ended at $90.00 because of the number he has sold in the last few months.
If I wanted to sell my original in the immediate future, I'm not sure I would get any more than $90.00 for mine!
They no longer have the value they once had and they may never gain back their value in the market.

Freddie

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: freddiesgarage] #160477
Tue Nov 17 2009 03:13 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 03:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,333
Butte, Montana USA
Alex Offline
Moderator, Value Forum
Alex  Offline
Moderator, Value Forum
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,333
Butte, Montana USA
Hey Fred....Greetings from Butte


Alex
Looking for Texaco and Power Gasoline items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: freddiesgarage] #160483
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:02 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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KZ1000  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mass
Originally Posted By: freddiesgarage
I guess one thing that really bothers me personally is when a single item like a rare "Pioneer Club" (Las Vegas)license plate topper (I will use this as an example) hits the market through e-Bay or any other source in high volume, it can bring the value down over time and make it less sought after and valuable by collectors like ourselves. I personally have a original "Pioneer Club" topper that was given to me by my sister in-law when she lived and worked in Las Vegas. I value this topper and had it appraised at between $250.00 to $300.00 because of it's condition vintage. The last one that treasureray sold that ended last weekend ended at $90.00 because of the number he has sold in the last few months.
If I wanted to sell my original in the immediate future, I'm not sure I would get any more than $90.00 for mine!
They no longer have the value they once had and they may never gain back their value in the market.

Freddie


EXACTLY, that is why REPOPS, Dated or Not are useless for this hobby, They all have lowered the orignal's value and will continue to do so for years to come, I have sold a lot of my signs for that very reason, It just isn't FUN anymore.


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160484
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:03 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Old Iron  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Isn't is nice how money always brings out the best in people?Over 1,300 views with only about 25 people posting. Thats not a dissusion; it's a specator sport. Is this good for the hobby? I don't think so. Ryan you might want to rethink your position unless we hear from some of that 1,000 plus views that are watching this.IMO.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Alex] #160485
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:05 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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t-ray  Offline
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T
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
Seth, your implication seems that I was selling signs at a show of some big Pennzoil signs?? I have never sold any large Pennzoil signs with the bell..?? And I Dont Sell at shows. I buy at shows and sell on Ebay exclusive.. This is getting stupid!

And Gulfiend I myself cant even read the numbers in the photo..but yet you can?? You are "The Man with X-Ray Eyes". I knew you had no intention to buy anything anyway,asking me to read it 6 days into the auction as I have had you blocked from over a year ago. You just want to point fingers, argue as if you are the Ebay police!!
Gulfiend, I love the description on that Rexall sign !! You sell a $2000 sign and specifically say the neon is old and 100% all original, quote"And, all of the neon is original and intact" then after it is sold now ask the experts here today for "comments" about the age of the neon.. ??

Shouldnt you ask for Age Comments "Before" you sell it? Talk about misrepresentation?

Since your all about posting emails..Also post the entire email(not just some partial copy and paste..) you got back from VC Signs as we all want to see it.
T-ray Still on the the hot seat!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160487
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:14 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Old Iron  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Ryan, I take it back. Let it play out. At least then everyone will know how this hobby really works and can make decisions accordingly.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160488
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:16 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
Originally Posted By: t-ray
Seth, your implication seems that I was selling signs at a show of some big Pennzoil signs?? I have never sold any large Pennzoil signs with the bell..?? And I Dont Sell at shows. I buy at shows and sell on Ebay exclusive.. This is getting stupid!

And Gulfiend I myself cant even read the numbers in the photo..but yet you can?? You are "The Man with X-Ray Eyes". I knew you had no intention to buy anything anyway,asking me to read it 6 days into the auction as I have had you blocked from over a year ago. You just want to point fingers, argue as if you are the Ebay police!!
Gulfiend, I love the description on that Rexall sign !! You sell a $2000 sign and specifically say the neon is old and 100% all original, quote"And, all of the neon is original and intact" then after it is sold now ask the experts here today for "comments" about the age of the neon.. ??

Shouldnt you ask for Age Comments "Before" you sell it? Talk about misrepresentation?

Since your all about posting emails..Also post the entire email(not just some partial copy and paste..) you got back from VC Signs as we all want to see it.
T-ray Still on the the hot seat!


Why would you think that I was talking about you??

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160490
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:28 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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t-ray  Offline
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T
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
[quote=Seth Robbins
Why would you think that I was talking about you?? [/quote]
Uh.... You mention Indiana..my home state and Im one of the posters.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160491
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:44 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
tray....I would rather express my thoughts as pictures rather than words from here on out.

socony.jpgsocony1.jpg
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160492
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:51 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
Hmmmmm.....

cflange.jpgcflange1.jpg
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160493
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:51 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: t-ray
And Gulfiend I myself cant even read the numbers in the photo..but yet you can?? You are "The Man with X-Ray Eyes".

...no, silly - but I can see that there are numbers there!

Originally Posted By: t-ray
You just want to point fingers, argue as if you are the Ebay police!!

...wrong again, just trying to get an honest answer...and the eBay police will handle you soon enough...a big part of Oldgas is trying to educate people to keep them from wasting their money on misrepresented reproductions...

Originally Posted By: t-ray
then after it is sold now ask the experts here today for "comments" about the age of the neon.. ??

Shouldnt you ask for Age Comments "Before" you sell it? Talk about misrepresentation?

...still mistaken...I posted that for the amusement of anyone who knows anything about neon - and to further illustrate how out of your depth you are...

...as to the email from VC Signs...you (or anyone else) is free to contact VC Signs and ask them yourself - the only part of it that is any of your business is the following:

"The Champion sign is a reproduction. It was made in 1999."

...what does your sign say?...have you 'unpacked' it yet to check?...why not post a photo of it for all of us to see?

...if you're 'still on the hot seat', what little brains you had must be charcoal by now... laugh


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160495
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:54 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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roadrelics  Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
its not surprising but the smoke & now blatant lies are starting to fly..

.Ray i have never bought anything from you,never have & never will, i knew better 20 years ago, i believe your talking about Bob Newman buying the Pepsi topper...Remember ripping him off in indy?? not a very good move, Bob is 6' 7''

ray got one thing right, he don't sell anywhere except ebay, actually he can't sell anywhere but online...if he went anywhere in person, things would not go well for poor ray..

yes ray i do sell to Famous Daves & other chain restaurants, however if i sell them a repo, they know it because i tell them, something you would not understand, THE TRUTH.....yes i am doing well enough to golf ray , because i get repeat customers, unlike you, you need to find new suckers all the time...

all those clocks are in my collection ray & not for sale.... all of the outer glass, neon & faces are 100% original...just another smoke screen by ray

just about everything that has come out of ray's mouth is a lie, as you can see he loves to cover his butt by making stuff up & telling total lies about others........ray can't go anywhere as he would be mobbed by disgruntled customers.......i travel all over the country for shows & there are many people here who can vouch for me, however many of them do not want to get involved in this *****....guess i can't blame them........

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160496
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:56 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 04:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
Where's the guys from CSI Miami when I need them....V-C Signs, V-C 1999????? "We may never know (David Caruso over-acting pulling off his aviator sunglasses), we may never know"

cflange1.jpg
Last edited by Seth Robbins; Tue Nov 17 2009 05:00 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160497
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:02 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
...I believe my 'x-ray eyes' can discern 'VC 1-99' or something to that extent... laugh


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160498
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:09 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
T-Ray do you honestly think you have helped your future ebay sales? Checking just now I see over 10,800 registered users on Oldgas. Of those that check here regularly, both registered and lurkers, I wonder how many are shaking their heads and making notations NOT to do business with you? You are asked questions, but haven't answered any of them, all you have done is attacked. How about pulling out your sign(s) and show us? That way questions will be answered once and for all. Also, you didn't answer my question on replacement faces on your clocks. Do you advertise them as original, even though you say you replace the faces? I don't have a "Dog in this fight", I'm just a member here and an Ebay customer, so either you will answer my question, attack me for asking the question or just ignore my question, which will raise more questions in others.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160499
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:10 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 05:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 105
dallas, georgia USA
R
Rick Berrong Offline
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Rick Berrong  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 105
dallas, georgia USA
Ray, I wanted to ask you about the Sinclair license toppers (and other license toppers) you've sold a ton of on e-bay. I sent you an e-mail and suggested that you tell people they are repops since I've seen you sell so many of them but you're still selling them as originals. Did you buy a box of those and if so could you post a picture? I would like to buy one but don't want a repop. If you can support your claim that they are original I would be interested. Thanks!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Rick Berrong] #160528
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:23 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Online content
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K W FRITH  Online Content
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Devils Lake, ND---USA
As a newbie, I want to explain to all involved, as to what my reactions are! This hobby can be very expensive at times and the thought of being robbed with a reproduction being passed off as original, terrifies me! I work very hard for my funds and to be sold a "pig in a poke" would infuriate me! This whole thing with unmarked reproductions causes me to be so overly cautious that I've often missed out on some terriffic deals because I was unsure.
I have been dealing on Ebay for over 5 years and I have over 500 transactions with 100% feedback, yet I still feel intimidated by some of the articles that get presented. My reaction is to simply steer clear of "ANYTHING" that I'm unsure of! This has to hurt the the hobby as a whole, if there are many more like me and I'm afraid that number is growing every day! Its a sad fact that money can and does corrupt people to the point that they are no longer honest with others or themselves. Very sad!
As someone who has made the concious decision to continue within this hobby, I have no alternative but to educate myself whenever and however I can. I have always known that there were unscrupulous characters out there, that care about nothing but seperating me from my hard earned dollars! I can only hope that I have aligned myself with enough of the "good people" in this hobby, that I will be protected as much as possible! I have full intention of passing everything that I learn to the next newbie that I encounter! If we all do this, possibly it will save this hobby we all enjoy so much.
On closing theres an old law enforcement quote that springs to mind in situations like this-------T-Ray, me thinks thou doust protest too much!!!!!!!!


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: strnge] #160533
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:40 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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ray also likes selling these repo cast brass advertising signs which he has done for years....he says they are old in the ad but i can guarantee you they are not....he has been selling these Pepsi & railroad ones for years now & i see he is expanding his nos find of these to Louisville Slugger .....that Louisville would be worth a fortune if real & original, however i am sure ray managed to find a whole nos box of them.....

Check out these 3 auctions of the cast brass repos......all are new, however in his ad he says they are old
just another LIE
the list goes on & on of rays repos.....BUYER BEWARE !!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-PEPSI-COLA-Bras...=item588465a22d

not original



http://cgi.ebay.com/1940s-PRR-Pennsylvan...=item5d26f8006d

not original


http://cgi.ebay.com/Louisville-Slugger-B...=item588465a2cb

not original




i think we have heard the last of ray for awhile, but don't forget his ebay auctions ...keep the rookies informed

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: K W FRITH] #160535
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:52 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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...yeah - that much different brass in one place, sold over an extended period of time...and NOS Pepsi street buttons that were obviously recast from a well-worn original...more red flags than Mao's birthday in Red Square...

...to be clear here - the Champion sign produced by VC Signs is clearly marked - and the maker was upfront, forthcoming and quick to respond regarding the origins of the sign when asked about it...that's a good thing and should be noted...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160536
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:59 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 07:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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I think there is no gray area when it comes to being a reproduction or counterfeit.
A repro is marked or shaped to make sure one can distinguish the difference.
We all know what happens to folks who counterfeit money!!!


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160540
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:20 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 633
Pueblo Colorado usa
D
DuceCpe Offline
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DuceCpe  Offline
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D
Joined: Feb 2001
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Pueblo Colorado usa
Well said KW Frith.
I agree with everything you said! The unmarked repos scare the HELL out of me.. I too avoid some great items just because of this.
Ric

Last edited by DuceCpe; Tue Nov 17 2009 08:21 PM.

Wanted: Conoco, Marland, Eason, Cliff Brice, Speedway and Oval E stuff!
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160542
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:22 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
here is a coke brass tag that is repo that ray sells', this is an old ebay auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380167267327




wow this building must have had many Louisville Slugger Brass plaques, here is an old ebay auction & i am sure he has sold many more of these...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400073190242



hey ray, what do you got to say about all these repos?????

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160548
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:41 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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Indiana
Originally Posted By: roadrelics
yes ray i do sell to Famous Daves & other chain restaurants, however if i sell them a repo, they know it because i tell them, something you would not understand, THE TRUTH.....


Yeah you tell the truth alright...By you own admission you admit selling Famous Daves repo signs?? Thats classic example of what I am talking about!! Maybe you care to tell everyone here what repo signs they bought from you?? Or yeah I know you'll conveniently DODGE The question.
Re: your clocks I never mentioned "buying them". Yours are all original?? Ha ha That is so funny its pathetic!!


Your the big seller selling 8 items since last year.. People who sell at shows like you for cash only dont have to be accountable like someone that sells on Ebay. I have over 10000 transactions with 99% feedback!! I didnt get it by selling repos and stupid AC Birdcages!

Thanks for posting the Markers!! Funny! The brass markers you have pictured anyone can see the detail and grain as only originals have. SHow the backside also will you so everyone can see how nice they are? Repops have flashing on them and slag on the letters Mr Expert Dumb A**!!
Hey you forgot my Air Signs..
Hey ill give you a hint at where I buy some things and maybe you can beat me out next time..

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160552
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:54 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
So show us the backside of the markers. Do yours have a pat'd date on the back?


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #160554
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:55 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Indiana
Bob, sorry I am too late as veteran Rockem' Sockem Robot expert already asked VC signs and posted the email above..of course most of it isnt our business though?? and Seth posted the pics already for you!! Maybe we can discuss clock faces with Roadrelics since his are all 100% Mint and original..but dont try and buy one because he isnt selling them..................Yet?? I look for a Collection sale later!

There should be a topic showing Roadrelics Neon clock faces and compare them with the repo ones his friend makes in Ohio!! You think? Then everyone can be informed when a repo turns up..

I bet all those "old" transformers in his house have a good smell also! Phewww!!!!!!!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160555
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:57 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 08:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
...hey 'Road Relics', I just wrote the Louisville Slugger Museum and Factory to see what they had to say about the brass plaques...I suggested they forward the email to the archivist or legal department...or both...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160558
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:03 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
Funny my question again, wasn't answered. Just answer my question. DO YOU ADVERTISE YOUR CLOCKS AS ORIGINAL AFTER YOU CHANGE THE FACE????? Seems like an easy question to answer. Unless the answer is yes.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160561
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:06 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
I would be suspect of that Goodyear sign Gulfiend..Do you need better photos?? Keep up the good work!! Damn I knew buying 350 of these was a mistake??

Any luck wiring up that Rexall sign yet? We want to see it light up prety redand orange...

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160563
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:09 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
Quote:
Yeah you tell the truth alright...By you own admission you admit selling Famous Daves repo signs?? Thats classic example of what I am talking about!! Maybe you care to tell everyone here what repo signs they bought from you?? Or yeah I know you'll conveniently DODGE The question.


yes i sell repos to Famous Daves & they know it, the repos are a 36'' United Service Motors....they can't afford the real thing, please call and ask them.....nice smoke screen ray however i admit if i sell a repo & you Lie....thats the difference....

wow ray youy have balls of steel, to sit here a lie in front of 1000's of people who know your lying & still be in total denial & try & lie your way out of it, put up smoke screens to make it look like somebody else is a worse cheat than you....there are not to many people worse & you are near the top.....AGAIN, i will bet my life savings all of your bogus brass markers are repo !!!!any bets ray???




wrong again ray, i don't sell much on ebay or at shows either, however i do have a few GREAT customers that buy in person that you will never have....


Hey ray, you want to buy a real authentic neon clock? just to see what an authentic one looks like???

i have many clocks in the advertising clock book written by Mike Brunner...call & ask him if mine are original & who he trusts in this hobby.....ask him who is an expert repo-ray.........

anybody who is wondering please call Mike Brunner {248-623-4875] who wrote the advertising clock book & ask him if my clocks are real & if i can be trusted, then ask him about Ray Shope


Hey ray, i can get a custom made clock for you in Ohio, custom made & it says " REPO RAYS " i think treasure rays is not acuurate.....as a matter of fact i just talked to Woody on the phone & he will probably be calling soon.....

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #160570
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:28 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 09:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
...yeah, Bob - what's up with that? confused...it's just like the questions about the date on the Champion sign - he did everything but just answer the question...he can't post clear close-ups of the date on the Champion sign because someone else reposted his blurry auction photos?...what?

...ask him about repro clock faces, and he starts talking about bird cages... confused

...RR - it doesn't take 'balls of steel' to hide behind a keyboard and lie...now if he showed his face at a swap meet - nah, he couldn't do that, he'd get run off for trying to pass off fakes as original...

...that crude Goodyear sign was probably made in the same third-world or former Communist Bloc country as those terrible Socony signs...look at the Goodyear lettering - the 'E' and 'A'...really bad stuff...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160590
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:10 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,968
Bardstown, KY USA
philmccauley Offline
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Bardstown, KY USA
I am away from the computer for about 14 hours and wow, 51 responses, I will sit back and keep reading.


Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________
Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160596
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:54 PM
Tue Nov 17 2009 11:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 355
calgary ab canada
M
mobil100 Offline
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mobil100  Offline
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M
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 355
calgary ab canada
funny my (orignal)20 x 30 goodyear sign has a different blue and look how tyre is spelled on mine compared to the one someone has for sale on e-bay 400085745968 someone forgot the word cycle -- last but not least check out the boot and wing - the sole is missing and poor detail--A and R are poor

e-bay sign

Last edited by mobil100; Wed Nov 18 2009 12:15 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: mobil100] #160597
Wed Nov 18 2009 12:28 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 12:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,064
Gualala, CA
Scott Baselt Offline
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Scott Baselt  Offline
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Posts: 2,064
Gualala, CA
Interesting thread !

In case there are some new members out there that are trying to follow this discussion but are unsure of the reliability of some of the posters, here is a little article that may help you to figure out who the good guys are.

Identifying a Pathological *****
Pathological liars, or "mythomaniacs," may be suffering from histrionic personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder. The following comments basically reflect a pathological ***** who has the characteristics of histrionic personality disorder.

Some characteristics

1. Exaggerates things that are ridiculous.

2. One-upping. Whatever you do, this person can do it better. You will never top them in their own mind, because they have a concerted need to be better than everyone else. This also applies to being right. If you try to confront an individual like this, no matter how lovingly and well-intentioned you might be - this will probably not be effective. It's threatening their fantasy of themselves, so they would rather argue with you and bring out the sharp knives than admit that there's anything wrong with them.

3. They "construct" a reality around themselves. They don't value the truth, especially if they don't see it as hurting anyone. If you call them on a lie and they are backed into a corner, they will act very defensively and say ugly things (most likely but depends on personality), but they may eventually start to act like, "Well, what's the difference? You're making a big deal out of nothing!" (again, to refocus the conversation to your wrongdoing instead of theirs).

4. Because these people don't value honesty, a lot of times they will not value loyalty. So watch what you tell them. They will not only tell others, but they will embellish to make you look worse. Their loyalty is fleeting, and because they are insecure people, they will find solace in confiding to whomever is in their favor at the moment.

5. They may be somewhat of a hypochondriac. This can come in especially useful when caught in a lie, for example, they can claim that they have been sick, or that there's some mysteriously "illness" that has them all stressed out. It's another excuse tool for their behavior.

6. Obviously, they will contradict what they say. This will become very clear over time. They usually aren't smart enough to keep track of so many lies (who would be?).



Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Scott Baselt] #160607
Wed Nov 18 2009 06:40 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 06:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
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Posts: 3,230
GA
Face it..... the dude is BUSTED.
He mearly defends himself w/ misdirection instead of the truth...........
The truth shall make you free!!!!


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160614
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:17 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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Indiana
Yeah busted..


ROADRELICS Got Caught MAKING, BUYING and SELLING Fake UNITED SERVICE Porcelain signs. Then scamming and filling up Famous Daves Bar B Q Restaurants with them. If he made 1 sign I bet my life savings he made more. He even admits it!

Its OK though for him though..because he "supposedly" Told Them First. Sounds Hypocritical to me!!

I feel sorry for anyone here that owns an Authentic REAL UNITED SIGN..He just killed them!!

Oh yeah to add..misspelled Goodyear TYRE is definitely foreign from who knows what country!


Last edited by t-ray; Wed Nov 18 2009 07:20 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160619
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:43 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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t-ray  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
Originally Posted By: jkyocom
Face it..... the dude is BUSTED.
He mearly defends himself w/ misdirection instead of the truth...........
The truth shall make you free!!!!


Here I T-Ray sit all by myself in a garage full of birdcages!!
Can SOmeone show me where a Famous Daves Restaurant is? I am Hungry and need to deliver these!!

Tweet.jpg
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160623
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:52 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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roadrelics  Offline
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Posts: 1,246
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oh my gawd, you are really a piece of work...just another diversion & smoke screen folks.......look what he can do with adobe photo shop, take his new repo boxes filled with his garbage & put my name on them....by the way repo ray thanks for all the attention & advertising, i have been getting some calls to sell some originals....great job...

i did not getting caught doing anything....Famous Daves knows they are buying repos & 90% of what they use in their restaurants are repos which they make in there own in house shop..

by the way don't worry about your united service neon signs, we make tin reproduction neons for them, not porcelain which all United Service neons are......


Know to get back to repo-ray again.....click this link http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-PEPSI-COLA-Bras...=item588465a22d & it will take you to a repo cast pepsi cola marker, then report him to ebay & Pepsi so we can get this guy removed from selling there....he is hurting our hobby & praying on the innocent....as you can tell he has no conscious & Scott Baslets description of a pathological ***** fits him perfect....

the reason he is coming down on me so hard is that i have been very vocal towards him ripping us off here & other places.........i don't care that he trys to divert the attention towards me, i think everybody has him fiqured out....i would love to see him removed from ebay & stop this cancer .....


if you have a question about my integrity call Mike Brunner who has written 7 or 8 books regarding our field of collecting....The Porcelain Sign Book 1 & 2, The Advertising Clock Book & a few others....I have not talked to him in quite awhile & i am trying to get his new phone # now...its has been changed, however i will post here as soon as i get it....


time is flying by, i need to get to the golf course, will continue later

Last edited by roadrelics; Wed Nov 18 2009 08:00 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160624
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:01 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,043
Portland Oregon
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Craig Osbeck Offline
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Portland Oregon
WOW !! My wife is chewing on me for watching this computer and reading all the threads on this. Can't help this is so enlightening.
Lets really say what we mean


Craig
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160626
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:13 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:13 AM
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Posts: 25
Indiana
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t-ray Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Indiana
Hilarious on the marker..
Roadrelics manufactures United Service Signs...yet I am ripping everyone off? Talk about Pot calling the Kettle black!! I guess its OK for you since your a member here Huh!!
What other signs have you made for restaurants? Care to elaborate a little so the members here will know when one turns up for sale?

Did you pay or contact the licensee holder of United Service Motors to manufacture signs for Famous Daves? Show it here then since your so honest...

Nobody really Cares about all your clocks with all the mint faces and original neon... that I know are repro!!

Care to Have Wayne Woodrum come on here and verify that he has Never sold you a Repo Clock Face for one of your 100s of clocks you own????

Last edited by t-ray; Wed Nov 18 2009 08:16 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160629
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:21 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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the big difference "rip off repo ray" is that i don't sell mine on ebay or anywhere else as originals...i sell them to a restraunt chain only & the only repos we made were united motors service....


the difference rip off ray is that you have numereous fakes on ebay as we speak & judging by your feedback you have ripped off many people for too many years............

i have known this for years however the gas & oil community is finally getting a clear picture of repo-ray......bad move ray, you should have kept your mouth shut, you have now exposed yourself to the world.....not very bright, for a con man


by the way do you have any reputable references we can call ??? i can guarantee he won't answer that question because the answer is a big "NO"

Last edited by roadrelics; Wed Nov 18 2009 08:39 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160635
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:44 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 08:44 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,462
Indianapolis IN USA
bustermonty Offline
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bustermonty  Offline
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Indianapolis IN USA
Damn, I gotta stick my two cents in. Ray your giving us Hoosiers a bad name.
Darryl is a straight up truthful guy. I don't know you except what I have seen on ebay and this site. This is about YOU not Darryl or anyone else. Yes, on this forum you are completely busted. You can spin it any way you want but the fact remains that this community has been enlightened to your mode of operation.
It is sad that new collectors and some old ones are being ripped off by your semantics and backpedaling when they pose legit questions. Your repeated attacks on Darryl are now comical and make for decent slow day amusement.
As your not so up front ebay life is threatened the BS will continue.
You probably won't change but at least the members of this site now a have better education and some insight on how you conduct business.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160636
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:05 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
T
t-ray Offline
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t-ray  Offline
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T
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Indiana
I guess that means you arent going to answer any of the questions then?

Did you pay or contact the licensee holder of United Service Motors to manufacture signs for Famous Daves? VC SIgns marks his signs as Repo and pays the licensee..of course you are beyond that and we already NO the answer!

Care to Have Wayne Woodrum come on here and verify that he has Never sold you a Repo Clock Face for one of your 100s of clocks you own????

Darryl you dont mark them as such..but it is OK because you tell them they are?? Good philosophy!

I guess nobody here really cares that you didnt mark them repos either though? Glad you all the members here approve!

I added it to the Reproductions page since you forgot!!


References you can call?? Gawd NO..

Yeah, Darryl is a straight up honest guy ...and Im an a**hole! Story of my life!

My Ebay record speaks for itself..dont buy anything if you dont want to.. and if you do I appreciate the business!

I am done with this PERIOD...

Last edited by t-ray; Wed Nov 18 2009 09:14 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160637
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:14 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 9,346
Oneida IL USA
G
gasoildude Offline
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gasoildude  Offline
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G
Joined: Nov 2004
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Oneida IL USA
Then dont keep it going & make other posts about Darryl !!!!!!!!!!


Wanted Owens Motor Oil & Mobiloil Gargoyle.
Brad Ralston & my website is
www.petrobarn.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160638
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:17 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
Originally Posted By: t-ray
I guess that means you arent going to answer any of the questions then?

Did you pay or contact the licensee holder of United Service Motors to manufacture signs for Famous Daves? VC SIgns marks his signs as Repo and pays the licensee..of course you are beyond that and we already NO the answer!

Care to Have Wayne Woodrum come on here and verify that he has Never sold you a Repo Clock Face for one of your 100s of clocks you own????

Darryl you dont mark them as such..but it is OK because you tell them they are?? Good philosophy!

I guess nobody here really cares that you didnt mark them repos either though? Glad you all the members here approve!

I added it to the Reproductions page since you forgot!!


References you can call?? Gawd NO..

Yeah, Darryl is a straight up honest guy ...and Im an a**hole! Story of my life!

My Ebay record speaks for itself..dont buy anything if you dont want to.. and if you do I appreciate the business!

I am done with this kindergarten...


How do you know how V-C signs does business?? You mean, you DO sell repos on ebay and don't indicate them as such?? What about when Gulfiend was asking you about the fact that the Champion sign was a V-C sign and you played dumb and didn't know what the mark in the corner was?? I'm gonna go ahead and say, just based on this....."THE PROSECUTION RESTS"

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160643
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:10 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,784
Lodi, CA.
Signal Gas & Oil Offline
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Signal Gas & Oil  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,784
Lodi, CA.
Does anyone have the contact information for VC signs? I want to get in on the action. Ted


Ted Pam Ethyl & Polly Roach
Lodi CA.
209-210-8971
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160645
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:22 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
...Mobil100...thanks for the side-by-side photos of your Goodyear sign and that...other one...

...I knew that thing was just a crude fake...this is a good education for everyone...well, only those who are willing to learn...


Originally Posted By: t-ray
I guess that means you arent going to answer any of the questions then?

...why bother? you haven't answered any of ours truthfully yet!...

Originally Posted By: bustermonty
Ray...This is about YOU not Darryl or anyone else.

...EXACTLY! laugh

Originally Posted By: t-ray
Yeah, Darryl is a straight up honest guy ...and Im an a**hole!

...wow...that's the first honest and truthful thing you've posted...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Signal Gas & Oil] #160646
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:24 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
Is the VC signs being talked about on this thread, the VC Signs in Pittsburgh, PA? If so, then their web address is www.vcsigns.com

Hope this helps anyone trying to follow along.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Signal Gas & Oil] #160647
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:25 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
http://www.vcsigns.com/

...again - they clearly mark their stuff and were forthcoming and honest when I asked about the Champion sign (which IS marked and dated...

...beat me to it by a minute, Bob! wink

Last edited by gulfiend!; Wed Nov 18 2009 10:26 AM.

Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #160648
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:27 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 10:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
S
Seth Robbins Offline
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Seth Robbins  Offline
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S
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,911
Guthrie, OK. 73044
Right...but tray acted like he didn't know what the eff Mark was talking about when asked about the markings on the repro champion flange he sold for $565, but then magically invokes how V-C marks their signs when bagging on Darryl.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160657
Wed Nov 18 2009 11:40 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 11:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Ryan Underthun Online content
Moderator
Ryan Underthun  Online Content
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Originally Posted By: roadrelics
the big difference "rip off repo ray" is that i don't sell mine on ebay or anywhere else as originals...


Come on now, lets keep the name calling out of this subject. Please read the rules of the forum again if you cannot remember them. This post is going to be locked if the name calling continues.

This has been a good discussion in my opinion, other than the name calling.


Ryan


FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #160658
Wed Nov 18 2009 11:51 AM
Wed Nov 18 2009 11:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,903
smyrna, de USA
THERMOMAN Offline
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THERMOMAN  Offline
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smyrna, de USA
jeepers creepers....just checking in on all the action. the thing i hate most about good money spent on repos, is that it takes real $$$ money out of our hobby. someone spent $500+ plus on the champion flange, and didnt spend it on a legit piece from a legit dealer. im sure he will put the $500 to good use???? i am one of the guys who feels that repos have a place in the hobby if marked and priced accordingly.

cant believe people arent knocking on this guys door by now???


see me at Mason Dixon Gas, Spring Carlisle M114-115, and Hershey C4E-35.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: THERMOMAN] #160659
Wed Nov 18 2009 12:10 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 12:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
T-ray has put up a (IMO) vague photo of a United Service Motors sign that he says is Darryl's in the "Known and Suspected" area. Wouldn't he have been more honest/as honest by posting photos of the items he has for sale on eBay that are or suspected of being re-pops? Darryl notes that his signs for this restaurant are re-pops, I'm not sure if they are marked or not. (I hope they are, but that's just me) T-ray when are you going to answer the question poised about your clocks and when are you going to show the back side of your Pepsi markers? Also, you never answered my question about a Pat'd on the back of your markers, is there one?


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #160661
Wed Nov 18 2009 12:22 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 12:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Online content
Veteran Member
K W FRITH  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
Bob--Here is the ebay number for one that he has on ebay right now and it shows the front and back of the marker. I have no idea if its a real one or not??? Thats why repops scare me so much!
Ebay# 380178375213


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: K W FRITH] #160667
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:09 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
Thanks Kevin, that's what I was looking for. IMO it looks good, except for the lack of wear and the cast mark. People find NOS items as Seth and others have said, but few of T-ray's markers have any wear.

Here is a photo of my 7up marker I picked up here on Oldgas earlier this year. I don't notice such a cast mark on mine, I have nothing else to compare with.
Looking further on eBay I see the markers with and without the casting mark, but all almost everyone has wear from being used, so I have no idea, anymore, LOL.




Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: K W FRITH] #160668
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:10 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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roadrelics  Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
Thanks Greg & others for the support.........i am so happy this person & subject is finally getting some good exposure....

now to answer rays questions

I only made a few 36'' United Service signs for Famous Daves Restaurant & only them.....they are hand painted on tin & they have my business card on the inside of them, however they are not marked on the outside....ORIGINALS are fired porcelain on steel & no i was not
licensed , i only made about 6 or 7....i never even thought of marking these as they are so crude (hand painted with a brush} anybody can tell the difference, even Bob R...LOL.........

i have never bought a repo advertising clock face for any of my clocks & i'm sure Woody would not want to get involved, just like some of my other buddies here......however i did just speak to a good buddy of mine who plays in the band "Rare Earth" & his name is Michael Brunner, who is an author of at least 7 or 8 advertsing clock & sign books...he has personally come over & took photos for his books......he would be more than happy to stand up for my character & clocks........ i told him about ray slandering my clocks & he is not happy with ray ....you can call him at 248-425-3223 or send him an email at "abott4girl@sbcglobal.net" & he will give you the truth.........

hey ray have you even found ONE person who will vouch for your integrity???.....you made a big mistake by lying & trying to con this bunch....

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160669
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:15 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
What a low blow, Darryl, true but still low, LOL.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #160670
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:32 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 639
So. Illinois
oldgoaly Offline
Petro Enthusiast
oldgoaly  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 639
So. Illinois
Wow! 7 pages of.... I hope the discussion stays fairly above the belt, And We(newbies, really old farts, and everyone in between) can glean some good info out of this discussion. Carry on! tt

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: oldgoaly] #160676
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:53 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 01:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
???????????????????????????????
If you are selling repro's as real, and someone calls you out on it....well,,,,, are you or aren't you?
That is a yes or no answer....
Not ...well,,,,,,, so & so is doing it too.....grow up, man up and answer dadgum the question!!!!!!
Are you or aren't you selling repro's as real??????????????.

This is not about what someone else is doing this is about what YOU are doing.....c'mon.


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160688
Wed Nov 18 2009 03:04 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 03:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,903
smyrna, de USA
THERMOMAN Offline
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THERMOMAN  Offline
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Posts: 1,903
smyrna, de USA
i think someone should start a poll

IF YOU THINK THIS AUCTION ITEM IS AN AUTHENTIC OLD PIECE CHECK YES???


see me at Mason Dixon Gas, Spring Carlisle M114-115, and Hershey C4E-35.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: THERMOMAN] #160695
Wed Nov 18 2009 03:43 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 03:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
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Posts: 3,230
GA
Well, T-RAY the whole site is waiting on a yes or no.....
What's the matter ???? no mud to sling at me.?
You know why??????
I had all my signs marked. I did not try to pass them off as real, also I am an honest man. I used MY capital to have them made.....I'm not out there trying to pass off someone elses work as old either.
I'm not a N.C. HILLBILLY, Just a dumb 'OL GA. CRACKER , but at least I am an HONEST CRACKER !!!!!
People in the south are not idiots.
Apparently you have NO IDEA HOW MANY people in the south you have offended by calling Gulfiend a hillbilly.
Boy.....you Really know how to win customers.
After the hillbilly comment I would ROT IN H*LL before I spend one penny with you !!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, we also know how to read and write.
T-Ray,,,,,
How about you, Gulfiend and I go out gator hunting? LOL

Sorry if I have offended anyone (with the exception of T-ray)
... this guy has REALLY p*ssed me off!!!!!!


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160696
Wed Nov 18 2009 03:58 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 03:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Old Iron  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Hi Again Guys,
If you rember I'm the one who tried to "calm troubled waters"a few pages back , then changed my mind to ley it play out.

Now I agree with Oldgoaly. Clear the air on it so that we can move on but finish it to everyones satisfaction. At least beginners are watching us "air our dirty laundry" in public.Not taking sides on that; I don't do much on Ebay so I don't really have experience in that area of the hobby.

PS KW Frith, You ain't no newbie. IMO.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Old Iron] #160710
Wed Nov 18 2009 05:16 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Online content
Veteran Member
K W FRITH  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
Sorry but the professor from California informed me that I am indeed a newbie. In fact I think he reinforced it with about 7 or 8 newbies in a row on one of his posts on this very forum!! LOL
And from what I understand, the professor is rarely wrong so that probably makes me a newbie.LMAO


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: K W FRITH] #160723
Wed Nov 18 2009 06:20 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 105
dallas, georgia USA
R
Rick Berrong Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Rick Berrong  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
R
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 105
dallas, georgia USA
Well Ray never answered my question on his Sinclair license toppers. I was trying to play nice and get an honest answer but I guess he couldn't give one. Didn't think he could. Everyone here is right, the question posed to him was a yes or no answer and he couldn't answer it so he has been exposed. People on here do make some repo items but they describe them as such and don't try to con people. This is the basic difference Ray between you and people who have posted on here. I think you know that, you have just tried to put up a smoke screen instead of answering the question honestly. You have not proved your case in any way, shape or form and have only hurt your credibility further. Man up and advertise your "stuff" correctly and you won't have these problems. Case closed, bailiff next case!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Rick Berrong] #160724
Wed Nov 18 2009 06:38 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 06:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
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Posts: 3,230
GA
wink


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160735
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:41 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 07:41 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 433
Nokomis, Il. USA
M
Mattgas Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Mattgas  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 433
Nokomis, Il. USA
Well I am just like Phil, away from the computer for a day and see what happens. Who every this t-ray is, I will tell you that I know for a fact that Daryl's bird cages are real because he called me before the auction and asked me what they were worth. Just my two cents.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160741
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:09 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,073
citrus heights ca.95610
hawkike Offline
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hawkike  Offline
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citrus heights ca.95610

Thought you would like to see an authentic PORCELAIN SHELL KEROSENE sign.I date this from the 30's era.I personally got this from a Shell bulk plant in San Andreas Ca. in the early 70's.It is a bit smaller than the tin signs that i have seen.Do not know if it is rare but i have never seen another like it.


Frank Jordan
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hawkike] #160744
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:42 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 09:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 727
OKC, OK
publicenemy1925 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
publicenemy1925  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 727
OKC, OK
I usually don't read the posts that i have no interest in (shell) for one, but when i seen how many posts it has in such a small time i had to post myself. I had bid on a item with Ray this week and i'm happy to say i got outbid. I can't bring myself to do business with poeple who aren't willing to be truthful.

Last edited by publicenemy1925; Wed Nov 18 2009 09:43 PM.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: publicenemy1925] #160751
Wed Nov 18 2009 11:07 PM
Wed Nov 18 2009 11:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 841
DFW metro area
P
Pegasus Offline
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Pegasus  Offline
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P
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 841
DFW metro area
Interesting topic. Just wanted to add this in defense of a friend. Please don't confuse the main "villain" here.........T Ray..........with T-way, who is an honest businessman & frequent contributor to this forum.

Richard






Last edited by pegasus; Wed Nov 18 2009 11:08 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Pegasus] #160762
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:11 AM
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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roadrelics  Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
i just recieved an email last evening from a lurker who knows t-ray & his whole operation very well.........i won't quote him directly '''''''''


You guys are a hoot!!!!! FYI All the bronze being cast for the Pepsi, Coca Cola, 7-up, Louisville Slugger etc. etc. are being done by a little foundry in Louisville. It`s the same one that used to decorate all the TGI Fridays.....if you have ever ate at Fridays you have seen these brass plaques & buttons..Keen Cutter & others were used



The painted signs are being screened locally too. They are a small run, non factory made,likely the same process as Mike Boggs uses. The inks are not thermal set and cured,therefore if exposed to bad weather or excess moisture,the inks will peel off like a banana skin.

they have a tool and die shop doing the beaded edges on the Sunbeam Bread and a few others,but they don`t have die capabilities yet,so that`s why the signs are not embossed.

The tool shop explains the toppers,flanges,and frame work for the Pepsi string holders. I know who does his artwork for the screened signs also,but am not at liberty to say.

He is ALWAYS a shopper at the Louisville Ky. Stewarts New Years Eve show so maybe you and some of the Hillbillies might like to visit him in person. You can take all I tell you to the bank......



this person knows t-rays operation well & i beleive everything he says,,,,,it appears he does most of his work in the Louiville
Ky. area........i think t-ray lives right across the border in Indiana......

hey ray,i know your lurking, why not respond to all the questions & all these acusations ??.....

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160785
Thu Nov 19 2009 10:50 AM
Thu Nov 19 2009 10:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Dick Bennett  Offline
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Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
There is NO reason to NOT DATE A REPRODUCTION other than to Defraud.
Knowingly representing a NEW item as OLD is Fraud.

EDITED TO ADD:
There is NO reason to NOT DATE ANY NEW ITEM, FANTASY or 1 OFF.
Removing the DATE/Markings on any item is an attempt to Deceive buyer into thinking item is older than it is, GREED.


Last edited by Dick Bennett; Thu Nov 19 2009 03:46 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Dick Bennett] #160807
Thu Nov 19 2009 01:59 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 01:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Online content
Veteran Member
K W FRITH  Online Content
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Posts: 11,645
Devils Lake, ND---USA
Well said professor!


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: K W FRITH] #160822
Thu Nov 19 2009 03:29 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 03:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
I think he got a fair trial....
He could not answer the first question of the prosocution without being out of order.


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160829
Thu Nov 19 2009 04:07 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 04:07 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,229
Interlaken, NY
5
59fairlane Offline
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59fairlane  Offline
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5
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,229
Interlaken, NY
Wow, don't get on here for a few days and look what happens.

I looked at his ebay listings and I was very suspect about that Sunbeam sign.

I'll go back to my duck decoys now. Later.


Always looking for Ithaca Gun and Lucky Sam soda items!!!


Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160849
Thu Nov 19 2009 05:21 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 05:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Old Iron  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Hi DB,
I was wondering when you were going to weigh in. Your edited to add was the important off all!!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Old Iron] #160857
Thu Nov 19 2009 05:48 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 05:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
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Posts: 3,230
GA
He should face criminal charges.
What is the difference between passing fake antiques and passing fake currency...you are still scr*wing people out of their cash.


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Dick Bennett] #160867
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:27 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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roadrelics  Offline
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Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
There is NO reason to NOT DATE A REPRODUCTION other than to Defraud.==== thats a very bold statement
Knowingly representing a NEW item as OLD is Fraud.====i agree

EDITED TO ADD:
There is NO reason to NOT DATE ANY NEW ITEM, FANTASY or 1 OFF.
Removing the DATE/Markings on any item is an attempt to Deceive buyer into thinking item is older than it is, GREED....thats fraud also



should all new stuff be dated ?? decals etc. .......... how easy is it for somebody to do away with the dates on cans, signs, globes etc. ???

how about restorations, should these cans, signs be marked so somebody won't be defrauded years later ?? if you put a new top on a can should'nt that be dated so the buyer knows the whole can isn't original.....how about if i put a new clock motor in a clock, should the outside of the clock be marked, new motor 11-19-2009....

Last edited by roadrelics; Thu Nov 19 2009 07:00 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160872
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:38 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,675
Carpinteria, Ca. USA
H
hotcidr Offline OP
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W O W...did I start a hornets nest or what. I just read all of these and, if you all remember, I'm the one who first asked the question. I love it. I've bought from Roadrelics for years and he is as honest as anyone I've met. PLEASE don't confuse T-Ray we me...just plain Ray...hotcidr
Love you guys and love this site

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160880
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:54 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 06:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Thanks Ray......good job for finally getting this t-ray guy to come forward ..............i don't think anybody here ever thought you were t-ray....bookmark treasureray to see some of the new repos

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160883
Thu Nov 19 2009 07:10 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 07:10 PM
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Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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What will happen to the decor items @ Famous Dave's Bar B Q Restaurants when it changes ownership or they switch to a different decor ? Will they fill a landfill or auction it off to to re-decorate ?

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Dick Bennett] #160888
Thu Nov 19 2009 07:44 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 07:44 PM
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Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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LOL...don't think i need to go thru all this again but will post again just for you ..Famous Daves wanted ONE copy of a 36'' United Service sign in 6 or 7 restaurants, so i hand painted them with a brush...the originals were porcelain not hand painted..... NO OTHER REPOS WERE EVER MADE BY ME, however Famous Daves has its own in house paint,wood,metal shop that turns out repos for their stores by the hundreds..
I did 6 or 7 signs with neon as they don't have a neon shop....

I'll tell the Famous Daves decorators that you are very concerned about this and I will have to get back to you with their answer...LOL


should'nt these restored cans be marked so that years later somebody is not defrauded??? or should these fill a landfill also....How about dating the re-lidding of cans, or should decals be dated ??.... how about all these repo pump parts that are being repoed, are all of these dated ??


how long do you think it would take t-ray to remove the printed date on your cans & put them into circulation on his ebay site??? he has done it with other items already....


Don't get me wrong, I DO THINK REPOS SHOULD BE DATED!!!! but please give me a break, my 6 or 7 signs in no way represent a repo ,THEY WERE HAND PAINTED & anybody with a brain cell can see it!!!!

i am not the one who continues to pump out repos

Last edited by roadrelics; Thu Nov 19 2009 08:08 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160894
Thu Nov 19 2009 08:30 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 08:30 PM
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GA
jkyocom Offline
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The Bowser signs I had made had the date high into the sign to try to deter anyone from chipping it off the bottom corner to defraud.

Roadrelics.....
YOU were NEVER on trial here.
HE was out of order from the first question.

To quote Homer Simpson.....
"Who do you think you are, Judge Judy and Executioner"...LOL


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #160896
Thu Nov 19 2009 08:46 PM
Thu Nov 19 2009 08:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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jkyocom.......YOU were NEVER on trial here either........


I realize i was never on trial here & I applaud the way you marked your signs, however there are a few things i won't tolerate & one is being call a fraud.......... after one pm to each other i really don't appreciate being called a fraud, because i hand painted 6 or 7 signs....then having the other person post here instead of talking to me, well, i'll post here as well.......


i think you should direct this to somebody else & i think its rather obvious..."Who do you think you are, Judge Judy and Executioner"...LOL................

Last edited by roadrelics; Thu Nov 19 2009 09:21 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160909
Fri Nov 20 2009 12:12 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 12:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 740
Cheyenne, WY
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67Chev4X4 Offline
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Cheyenne, WY
A couple of months ago I ran into Flory Mendicino at a local swap meet and he was selling a repro United Service neon sign. He said a friend of his was making them. I did not ask him if they were dated, or who was making them. never thought about it. A few of you out there know who Flory is. So the United sign tray was talking about may not have been the ones that Roadrelics made. From a distance it looked real but I didn't look at it closely. I wouldn't know the difference anyway. Flory is also the one who had the Frontier lenses without dates made up in the early 80's. He told me close to 10 yr's that was one of the worst mistakes he ever made. Don't quote me on this but I believe he said he had two dozen pair made. Mitch

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: 67Chev4X4] #160917
Fri Nov 20 2009 01:34 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 01:34 AM
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Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Mitch..........i just ran into Flory at the Chicago coin-op show & he had among others the United Service neon sign...it was the 3' version & i could tell instantly it was not real as it was tin & not porcelain....i did not see a date an did not bother to ask as i already knew it was a repo & Flory would have told me the truth either way...

..One thing for sure is I did not call Flory a Fraud, because he is not...i think if anybody did call Flory a fraud would be opening a big can of whop-***** & i would back him 100%...

I know some will say, what about 10 years down the road when some newbie wants to buy this sign.....it will be no different if they buy an undated restored oil can that is not marked....or if they buy a total repo oil can with the date removed.....peoploe including t-ray remove these dates & resell as originals........i have seen many signs that have been conveintly scratched down in the right corner among other places to remove the date.....the oil cans are even easier as they are marked on the seam......
i do still belive all repops should be marked , however lets use a little common sense.,...before you go buy a $3000 neon sign, oil can or anything else, do a little reasearch.../.. BUYER BEWARE

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160918
Fri Nov 20 2009 01:54 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 01:54 AM
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Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Online content
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Ohio Oil  Online Content
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Northwest Ohio
I think we should legalize drugs and teach our chidren the benefit of safe sex vs. abstinence. I mean seriously, everybody is going to do it anyway.

Saying that crooks are going to remove dates anyway that are placed on recreations, reproductions, fantasy items, etc... is by far the weakest argument for not dating something.


I agree with the statement.."there is no reason NOT to date it"
Obviously we can't control an item once it leaves our hands...but that should not prevent any of us from doing what is right.

In regard to what should be dated, ie...signs, stickers, repops, fantasy items, that has been debated ad nauseum here in the past.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ohio Oil] #160920
Fri Nov 20 2009 03:15 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 03:15 AM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ohio Oil
I think we should legalize drugs and teach our chidren the benefit of safe sex vs. abstinence. I mean seriously, everybody is going to do it anyway.
In regard to what should be dated, ie...signs, stickers, repops, fantasy items, that has been debated ad nauseum here in the past.


wow, I'm sure glad we got what should & should not be dated cleared up...sure you did'nt miss anything???

how about gun control, i'll bet you have the answer there too...


who ever argued that anything should not be dated,, show me one place where i EVER argued that....go back & re-read...heres what i really said, & i have said it many times in previous posts.......

Quote:
i do still belive all repops should be marked , however lets use a little common sense.,...before you go buy a $3000 neon sign, oil can or anything else, do a little reasearch.../.. BUYER BEWARE


thats about the weakest attempt of somebody trying to put words in my mouth

Last edited by roadrelics; Fri Nov 20 2009 05:17 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: t-ray] #160921
Fri Nov 20 2009 04:51 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 04:51 AM
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Posts: 1,486
Albuquerque, N. M.
HI-OCTANE Offline
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DA DA !! Some one finely said it, use a little common sense. Buy the books , talk to other collectors look at flea bay, RE.SEARCH INVESTIGATE.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: HI-OCTANE] #160925
Fri Nov 20 2009 05:40 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 05:40 AM
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Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Online content
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Trust me...I get your point and I'm not putting words in your mouth. You was sure to point out how crooks can easily rub the date off....to me that's a non issue in regard to dating ANYTHING (repop, recreation, or fantasy pieces) in the hobby. Why bring it up....it's a weak argument any way you look at it. Wish I would have thought of the gun control angle to further my point, that's more dear to my heart. smile

You're saying if you recreate something not made with original materials, in other words it's unlike the original it doesn't have to be dated. If it's obviously not genuine to most collectors...the buyer should use common sense..."buyer beware" is the term you used.

I remember several months ago when a recreated globe body wrapped in neon showed up on here. They were made with materials unlike the originals and obviously were not old. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY on here argued that although we all knew they were recreations and not real...those coming after us might not....so the right thing to do was to date them.

Interestingly Darryl...I was in the vast minority making the same argument as you are now, common sense ... and that the buyer needs to do their due dilligence.

The point of my post was that in the hobby we have to understand why we do and don't do things like dating stuff. Let it never be about our concern that someone will just rub the mark off anyway or that we only made a dozen of them as compared to cranking out a hundred.





Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ohio Oil] #160928
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:07 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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I don't belive rubbing a mark off is a non-issue.....My point is to make a mark that can't be rubbed off & thats why i bring it up....


once again my stance is "DATE ALL REPOS"

Last edited by roadrelics; Fri Nov 20 2009 06:17 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ohio Oil] #160930
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:10 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:10 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,978
Evansville, In
Jarvis Offline
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I am with Ohio oil, if you make it DATE IT! It shouldn't matter what it's made of or swapping colors. If you make it on wood and your painting it put a date. If people don't like dates than put copy, if you don't like copy than buy an original!

I will use an example of why stuff should be dated. My dad likes going to auctions, he sees a sign and bids Not always the brightest thing to do but he he likes it he buys it. He did that with several items of coke stuff and had some people tell him after the fact a few things are repop. He went and bought a book on coke stuff since he many pieces now and after getting burned he hasn't bought a coke item since. Does he have to become a "expert" to buy a few pieces? Some guy goes to an auction and decides to buy a sign or globe he shouldn't become an expert to buy a few items for the garage.

Dealing with flat out crooks, people removing dates, making items that are not real will have there day. Pay with USPS money order and if you get taken file a complaint for fraud. Enough people file they will go after the people. I know bevause i got taken last year at this very time and the guy is now getting what is coming to him!


Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #160933
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:20 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:20 AM
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Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Online content
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Originally Posted By: roadrelics

I know some will say, what about 10 years down the road when some newbie wants to buy this sign.....it will be no different if they buy an undated restored oil can that is not marked....or if they buy a total repo oil can with the date removed.....peoploe including t-ray remove these dates & resell as originals........i have seen many signs that have been conveintly scratched down in the right corner among other places to remove the date.....the oil cans are even easier as they are marked on the seam......


To me part of your defense of not marking a RECREATION is that it's no different than buying an unmarked repop or the fact that crooks rub the marks off anyway. What I'm saying is that's a non issue. No matter how sophisticated we get at putting marks on them the crooks will figure out a way to get em off. Whether or not to date a recreation has nothing to do with what the crooks will do.

You keep bringing the argument back to repops...show me where that's the point I was majoring on.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ohio Oil] #160936
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:34 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:34 AM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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i have not defended not marking re-creations & have said in the repo sign section that if i ever make a re creation again i will mark it... refer to the locked thread there.. http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160608#Post160608 .......what i do say is use common sense, read books, look at ebay, talk to people, but be very informed before you buy something & don't blame your mistakes on somebody else & take resposibilty for your own actions.......I'm out of here, to the golf course.........

Last edited by roadrelics; Fri Nov 20 2009 06:57 AM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Jarvis] #160951
Fri Nov 20 2009 07:43 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 07:43 AM
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Oneida IL USA
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gasoildude Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jarvis
I am with Ohio oil, if you make it DATE IT!



THIS SUMS IT ALL UP RIGHT HERE!!!!!!! I AGREE 100% WITH YOU THERE JOHN!!!!!


Wanted Owens Motor Oil & Mobiloil Gargoyle.
Brad Ralston & my website is
www.petrobarn.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160972
Fri Nov 20 2009 09:28 AM
Fri Nov 20 2009 09:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1
New Mexico USA
U
UN1203 Offline
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New Mexico USA
Every time one of these sign makers produces a "Repop or Limited edition run" without dating it. They are devaluing all of our collections. It is no different than counterfeiting there is absolutely no reason not to date a repop sign, except for future fraud.


Hauling Gas
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ohio Oil] #160989
Fri Nov 20 2009 02:30 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 02:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,675
Carpinteria, Ca. USA
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hotcidr Offline OP
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Since I started this subject I'm requesting that the moderators now end, remove, delete it. This has gotten WAY too personal and not in line with what we need to read and review. No one can benefit for this to keep going on.
Ray....the real Ray

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #160992
Fri Nov 20 2009 02:56 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 02:56 PM
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Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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IMO, as a collector I have an obligation to "look out" for future collectors. Whether that collector starts collecting 5,10 years from now or starts in 10 minutes. I think, that thought is pretty uniform by the replies generated by this thread. "Let the buyer beware" will always be something that future and present collectors will deal with. But, if it is in our power, lets "lift a hand" and make it easier for the next "generation" of collectors. It would be nice if the children and grandchildren of those on this site wouldn't have to "cut through the chaff" to find an original item. Reproductions and fantasy items do have a place in this hobby, just mark the damn things. Real easy to do. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, just stating what I think is an oblivious statement. No matter what one's items are worth, they shouldn't have to worry about "scumbags" that are just out to defraud. Or at least, again, that is MY OPINION. By the way, I don't think any of the regular members here as "scumbags", I know that there maybe some here that think the "scumbag" label fits me at times and they would be right. LOL

T-Ray, if you read this I don't know you. I do think you are just out to "rip people off". You could care less about the history or the preservation of gas and oil related items. I do believe that sooner or later you will, rip off the wrong person and you will be sued or worse. I don't want you harmed, but I do want you gone.... Because I don't see you being honest with those that buy from you. Again my opinion, no one else's.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #160999
Fri Nov 20 2009 03:31 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 03:31 PM
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Guthrie, OK. 73044
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Seth Robbins Offline
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I think a point that many on here are missing is that the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of reproduction and/or fantasy items that are available are made not by collectors, purists, hobbyists, etc but by just your average run-of-the-mill businessman that is looking for a profit. Take a company like Ande Rooney. They've been making small porcelains for 30 years!!! They don't mark or date, they just put a sticker on the back with the history of the company & logo being used. For as long as they've I've been around this hobby/business, I've occassionally witnessed people spending original type dollars on Ande Rooney signs, which is silly since the back doesn't have porcelain on it at all and there's not shelving (just screen-print over white porcelain). They are the single biggest producer of repo porcelain signs in the world. But, they aren't the problem. People like me who made repo parts, decals & globes for restorations aren't the problem. Guys like Darryl aren't the problem. Guys who either a) make reproductions and then age them in a pre-meditated attempt to get original prices for repo items -AND- b)people who take the Andy Rooney type signs, shoot them with a bb-gun and throw vinegar on them to age them.....THESE ARE YOUR PROBLEMS. You guys can say, "if you make it, date it" til Jesus returns, and it's not going to make the problem stop, heck it really isn't going to help.

Has anybody stopped to ask themselves, why this is even a problem to begin with? The answer is, because this type of collectible got SO POPULAR and SO EXPENSIVE!!!!! That's the paradox, conundrum, damned if you do/damned if you don't situation this hobby and other collectible hobbies will always face. You can't have your cake and eat it too!?!?!?! As the values of your collections has risen, so has the amount of fraud that goes on in the advertising collectibles hobby! If this stuff wasn't so rare, desirable, and valuable, there would be ZERO incentive for crooks to counterfeit & deceive.

The last thing I'll address is this type of statement: "the only reason you wouldn't mark a product is for future deception". I call BS on that. I made literally thousands of pumps parts & decals, repo pumps and other decor and the majority of the time, there was no de-notation that the items were made in modern times. 99% of the stuff was so glaringly new, it never occurred to me to mark it. Heck, there are members of this VERY FORUM that COMPLAINED about the merchandise that WAS MARKED!!! And I think they had just as good of a point. A lot of guys didn't like to put a pair of pump faces or a globe on pump that said NEW, REPRODUCTION or 2001 on it. They said, it queered up their restoration, and really if you think about, when's the last time you saw a new bumper on a '67 Corvette that had REPOP stamped on it??

All I'm saying is, what happened here on this thread....basically the "outing" of a major violater helps the 10,000 people that look on here and that's about as good as your going to do. As long as the temptation is there (i.e. $$$) there will be people that either counterfeit OR doctor up repos made with good intentions. How do you mark something well enough that somebody can't alter it and make it look real AND still be able to sell it??

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #161005
Fri Nov 20 2009 04:14 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 04:14 PM
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Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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This whole thread does confirm that Reproduction SIGNS, not pump parts, pieces, etc. are a problem whether they are marked or not, They will always be tampered with and used to decieve, My opinion has always been, and especially after reading this thread that Repro SIGNS are NOT good for the collectors of original Signs. Again, dating them is not the answer, stop producing them, There are way too many already.


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Seth Robbins] #161012
Fri Nov 20 2009 04:43 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 04:43 PM
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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very well said Seth & with class......in a perfect world all of the repos , fantasy items would be marked....I would be willing to bet that 90% of the repos are not marked , that doesn't make it right but that is reality....

That would be a great idea KZ., our originals would sky rocket in value.....


My first collectibles were neon clocks & other advertising clocks... i watched them increase in value for years & then a few people started reproducing them & it just killed the market for them...I've got a couple hundred originals that are worth half of what they were & it doesnt bother me to much as i have a great love for them & don't plan on selling...I never did condemn or hold it against the people who did these repos as they did not do it to defraud, however once in the wrong hands people were defrauded & thats the problem, the people, not the clocks....it again comes down to knowledge & common sense

the coin market is now being flooded with undated repos from China.... i can tell you one thing if i decide to buy coins i will surely do my homework & chances are very good i will not get ripped off...if it happens that i do, i will learn from it & take resonsibilty for my actions.....

what really gets my goat though are people who set up high on their pedastal hiding behind their personnal beliefs of what is right & wrong, condeming most everyone else, then shamelessly do the same things & even worse....





Last edited by roadrelics; Fri Nov 20 2009 05:20 PM.
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #161035
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:52 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 06:52 PM
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Posts: 26
Missoula, Montana
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freddiesgarage Offline
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Missoula, Montana
Not much has been said about eBay and what they might possible be able do to slow down re-production stuff sold as original. If you go into eBay and click on "Merchandise & Memorabilia" then go to "Signs" as an example, the first thing is asks is "Original or Re-production"? If you go into eBay and click on "Gas & Oil", none of those categories asks "Original or Reproduction" !!
If a seller was to receive "negative feedback" from a buyer due to misrepresentation of a item, there should be a penalty given against that seller with even more strict penalties in the future like not allowing them to sell again on eBay. Would this stop the problem we are faced with? No, but it might help slow it down together with other controls. eBay is making lots of profit on items sold on their site that are misrepresented, I really don't think they want to be in that type of business for the long haul. I wonder if any of the eBay top executives have read all this thread??? I think they might be very surprised on what honest buyers have to say.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: freddiesgarage] #161039
Fri Nov 20 2009 08:38 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 08:38 PM
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Northwest Ohio
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freddie: I think you make a valid point about ebay. They are certainly making their fair share of money on all this. Seems they are not willing to police their own auctions...don't want to stop the revenue stream.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Ohio Oil] #161044
Fri Nov 20 2009 08:51 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 08:51 PM
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Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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KZ1000  Offline
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Posts: 3,259
Mass
Yes, But ebay is only an auction site, Like any auction anywhere, buyers must know what they are buying. It is not ebays responsibility to determine what is real or repro, just like Any auctioneer will not always guarantee what they are selling, that is why they have previews, for the buyer to determine what they think of an item. It has been said on here Many times, BUYER BEWARE


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: KZ1000] #161049
Fri Nov 20 2009 08:58 PM
Fri Nov 20 2009 08:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 12,110
PECONIC BAY, L.I., NY, USA
THE AMERICAN GARAGE Offline
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THE AMERICAN GARAGE  Offline
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PECONIC BAY, L.I., NY, USA
GOOD NIGHT IRENE! wink

(HEY I HAD TO SAY SOMETHING HERE EVEN IF IT WAS DUMB....)


DOC @ THE AMERICAN GARAGE
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: THE AMERICAN GARAGE] #161055
Sat Nov 21 2009 12:43 AM
Sat Nov 21 2009 12:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 740
Cheyenne, WY
6
67Chev4X4 Offline
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6
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Posts: 740
Cheyenne, WY
Roadrelics, I did not want to imply Flory was doing anything wrong only that I had seen him trying to sell the sign. That's how dumb I am about signs I didn't know even the size of them. I did work for Flory's dad over 50 yrs. ago. He had a shoe store here in Cheyenne. Flory is a respected businessman here. His body and paint man that works on his pumps and other things was my instuctor out to the community college and helped me restore my first pump. I was just trying to point out you were not the only one to reproduce the United Service sign. Mitch

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: 67Chev4X4] #161059
Sat Nov 21 2009 06:03 AM
Sat Nov 21 2009 06:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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roadrelics  Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
I am with you 67chev4x4...Flory is a good guy & certainly no fraud....there are many people who are repoing the neon United Service,,here is a double sided one on ebay right now

http://vi.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...ie&caz.html


the question is he committing fraud??? i say no , he says in the ad that its a repo.....
somebody years ago repoed this 36'' neon United Service in porcelain, they are very well done & difficult to tell between the original...There are ways to tell, but if you don't know, Beware...there is also a repo 4' Ford oval porcelain neon with the original makers name on it....it is an excellent repo , but again there are ways to tell, Buyer Beware....

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: roadrelics] #161080
Sat Nov 21 2009 09:19 AM
Sat Nov 21 2009 09:19 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 987
Spokane, Washington
hillsideshortleg Offline
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Posts: 987
Spokane, Washington
My 2 cents: If people raised kids to truly respect others, less people would be out there trying to decieve others to fill their pockets. Every one knows what their own intentions are. If it's to mislead people so they can make money there is some thing wrong with them and they are adding nothing positive to this world.(IMO) They will answer for the things they've done.It's obvious there is no shame in the dude selling all the ***** on ebay. Every city has there own. Even Spokane Washington.
Show your kids the adult making money off screwing people over, use it as an example to help them become better people. Certainly not perfect myself but I try not to justify screwing some one over THEN DOING IT.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hillsideshortleg] #161345
Sun Nov 22 2009 10:19 PM
Sun Nov 22 2009 10:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400087253905

...this sign has been chemically aged - the typefaces used to recreate this sign are way off...beware 'treasure ray' on eBay...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #161349
Mon Nov 23 2009 01:53 AM
Mon Nov 23 2009 01:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,396
MN United States
T
Tankar Online content
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Tankar  Online Content
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T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,396
MN United States
I know this is an original,

texaco.JPG
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Tankar] #161369
Mon Nov 23 2009 08:03 AM
Mon Nov 23 2009 08:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 639
So. Illinois
oldgoaly Offline
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oldgoaly  Offline
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Posts: 639
So. Illinois
I think I see a difference in the type fonts, now how much lettering can vary with porcelain? from the firing/fusing process? tt

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Tankar] #161384
Mon Nov 23 2009 11:01 AM
Mon Nov 23 2009 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Minnesota
S
SULLY Offline
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SULLY  Offline
Active Member
S
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Minnesota
Don't know if it has been mentioned yet
but how does a guy like TR get a satisfaction
rating of 99.8 with almost 10,000 transactions?


Sully..........

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: SULLY] #161400
Mon Nov 23 2009 02:21 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 02:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,259
Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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KZ1000  Offline
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Posts: 3,259
Mass
Because most people do not realize they have a Fake until months later, the ones that do find out right away, probably get a refund from Ray to prevent neg. feedback. And a LOT of people just do not leave feedback


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: KZ1000] #161402
Mon Nov 23 2009 02:31 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 02:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,184
Plover, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
J
Jolly-John Offline
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Jolly-John  Offline
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J
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,184
Plover, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
BIG difference in the type faces between the original and the repro TEXACO pump topper in question. The repro is definitely using more "modern" fonts (I worked in graphic design for many years.) Also note the difference in the positioning of the periods on "U.S.A." between the two toppers. Details! Details!

Hopefully, we can all still have a wonderful Thanksgiving. My best to everyone, John in Wisconsin

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Jolly-John] #161406
Mon Nov 23 2009 03:08 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 03:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
The biggest thing that jumped out at me on both of these toppers is the "Black T". Texaco dropped the "black T" completely by 1943. T-ray's topper, he says, is from the 60s, 20+ years after the "symbol" was dropped. Tankar's topper also, has me questioning it. The toppers I have seen in person and in books, all are without the "Made by Texas Company". Signs from the 20's and very early 30's have that signage, but toppers?

Erol Tuzcu had arguably the largest Texaco collection around. Not one of the largest, but the largest and most complete . I know personally the party that bought his collection. Plus the book "A Tour with Texaco" is based 98% on Mr. Tuzcu's collection. I figure that if such a topper existed he would have had it. He collected Texaco items for almost 30 years before selling his collection. So like I said I have some questions. But I have been wrong, before.

Oh, by the way the signage with "Made by....." the periods between U.S.A are just like I typed them. For those with "A Tour...Texaco a couple of these signs on are page 41. Checkout the 1932 sign where it reads "Made By The Texas Company" the USA portion has been dropped. Just something to ponder about.

Like I said I have some questions.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #161410
Mon Nov 23 2009 04:07 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 04:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 948
Sunbury, PA, USA
lordparaffin Offline
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lordparaffin  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 948
Sunbury, PA, USA
This will always be a hotly debated topic and at this point I feel trying to add anything of merit seems to create even more dispute which makes this no longer a healthy debate, but simply one of those unfortunate instances which gives lurkers and those with reservations fuel to not get involved. Let's agree to save face at this point for a greater good.


........Dave
___________________________________________________
Looking for old, rare, auto light bulb tins
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #161414
Mon Nov 23 2009 05:35 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 05:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,396
MN United States
T
Tankar Online content
Veteran Member
Tankar  Online Content
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T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,396
MN United States
Then Bob your Texaco friend had a repo. as well look on page 32 lower right bottom one, his sign is like mine the dots are between the letters.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Tankar] #161418
Mon Nov 23 2009 06:17 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 06:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Tankar I said, I have questions. Still do. I didn't say yours wasn't original, I have questions. I voiced my questions here and said "But I have been wrong, before." I am going to drop this because it does no good to get angry. But try reading, the whole reply next time.

Oh, my friend doesn't have any repops, that I know of, but again I could be wrong.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #161421
Mon Nov 23 2009 06:29 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 06:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,396
MN United States
T
Tankar Online content
Veteran Member
Tankar  Online Content
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T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,396
MN United States
I know your not implying that mine is a fake, I understamd that you may have questions no problem there. , I am just saying it is the same as your friends in the book so either there both fake or both real that's what I was getting at. I am done as well. going to watch the football game.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #161432
Mon Nov 23 2009 07:16 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 07:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 867
Alabama, USA
Dale Stephens Offline
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Dale Stephens  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 867
Alabama, USA
[quote=Bob Richards] Signs from the 20's and very early 30's have that signage, but toppers?



These signs are not toppers. They go on "lubster" attachments. All this type I have ever seen have the black outline around the green "T". Probably dating from the teens through the thirties. I could be wrong on this but it is just my opinion...Dale


Wanted: Champion Spark plug, Shell, Pennzoil, Kendall, and Woco Pep signs...Dale Stephens
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Dale Stephens] #161443
Mon Nov 23 2009 07:48 PM
Mon Nov 23 2009 07:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
I was under the impression Tankar's was a topper, I was wrong. No wonder I was questioning it, am I ever right? I made the mistake of not reading the auction correctly. Sorry for the trouble my questions may have caused. Thank you Dale for pointing out that I was wrong in a polite way, LOL.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #161513
Tue Nov 24 2009 01:13 AM
Tue Nov 24 2009 01:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,064
Gualala, CA
Scott Baselt Offline
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Scott Baselt  Offline
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Gualala, CA
Originally Posted By: gulfiend!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400087253905

...this sign has been chemically aged - the typefaces used to recreate this sign are way off...beware 'treasure ray' on eBay...


I see Tray revised his listing............

"On Nov-23-09 at 18:51:50 PST, seller added the following information:

It was brought to my attention this may not be made in the 60s but from the 80s or so. The collector

I am selling this for has had it installed outdoors on a Texaco pump for at least 20 yrs"


Maybe he's turning over a new leaf ?!? laugh smirk grin



Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Scott Baselt] #161550
Tue Nov 24 2009 07:17 AM
Tue Nov 24 2009 07:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Posts: 5,015
Raleigh, North Carolina
...again, from the Aumann Auctions website, to show how they were attached...these date from the 1920's and 1930's...

027.jpg

Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #161570
Tue Nov 24 2009 09:30 AM
Tue Nov 24 2009 09:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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jkyocom  Offline
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Posts: 3,230
GA
It's amazing how many folks find religion after being incarcerated.


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #161577
Tue Nov 24 2009 09:55 AM
Tue Nov 24 2009 09:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 105
dallas, georgia USA
R
Rick Berrong Offline
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Rick Berrong  Offline
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R
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 105
dallas, georgia USA
I looked at all of Ray's listings last night and it seems he may have turned over a new leaf. He seems to be listing his stuff honestly now. Good to see. Funny what a good spanking from Old Gas will do to ya! Next subject please, this one has been beaten to death!

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Rick Berrong] #161585
Tue Nov 24 2009 11:11 AM
Tue Nov 24 2009 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,230
GA
jkyocom Offline
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GA
G'night John-Boy.....LOL


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: jkyocom] #161589
Tue Nov 24 2009 11:40 AM
Tue Nov 24 2009 11:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,270
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Bob Richards  Offline
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Longview, WA
My friend gave me a tip on how to tell an original from a repop in his own words; "I hope if you post this that you'll correct yourself and tell them I only purchased a small portion of Erol's collection.

These 5" plates are for a lubester, not a topper. Tankars is the real deal, and T-Rays is a fake. The way to tell real from repo is the star points. On a real plate the star points at 3 & 9 o'clock point directly to the round white circles on the border... The star points at 5 & 7 o'clock extend into the wording Made By The Texas Co. U.S.A. ...."

My questions have been answered, LOL.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #161605
Tue Nov 24 2009 02:24 PM
Tue Nov 24 2009 02:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 639
So. Illinois
oldgoaly Offline
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oldgoaly  Offline
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So. Illinois
Bob, Thanks to you and your friend! Now I see a big difference! That nugget of knowledge should hold true on all Texaco items. Take care! tt

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: oldgoaly] #161613
Tue Nov 24 2009 03:12 PM
Tue Nov 24 2009 03:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Ryan Underthun Online content
Moderator
Ryan Underthun  Online Content
Moderator
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Posts: 4,812
Duluth, MN U.S.A
This is the reason we like to keep these kind of topics posted. There sure is a lot of information in this one thread.


FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Bob Richards] #161638
Tue Nov 24 2009 04:59 PM
Tue Nov 24 2009 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 867
Alabama, USA
Dale Stephens Offline
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Dale Stephens  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 867
Alabama, USA
Originally Posted By: Bob Richards
I was under the impression Tankar's was a topper, I was wrong. No wonder I was questioning it, am I ever right? I made the mistake of not reading the auction correctly. Sorry for the trouble my questions may have caused. Thank you Dale for pointing out that I was wrong in a polite way, LOL.



Bob:
I thought about what I said today and was afraid I might have offended you. If I did in any way, I'm sorry....Dale


Wanted: Champion Spark plug, Shell, Pennzoil, Kendall, and Woco Pep signs...Dale Stephens
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Dale Stephens] #161722
Wed Nov 25 2009 06:45 AM
Wed Nov 25 2009 06:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 727
OKC, OK
publicenemy1925 Offline
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publicenemy1925  Offline
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Posts: 727
OKC, OK
This has been a very informative thread. I'm glad it wasn't closed. Somethings need to be hashed out.


Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Rick Berrong] #161786
Wed Nov 25 2009 11:35 AM
Wed Nov 25 2009 11:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,784
Lodi, CA.
Signal Gas & Oil Offline
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Signal Gas & Oil  Offline
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Posts: 1,784
Lodi, CA.
Maybe turned over a new leaf for this one item but these new sunbeam signs and the orange crush signs sure scream repop. IMO Ted


Ted Pam Ethyl & Polly Roach
Lodi CA.
209-210-8971
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: hotcidr] #161914
Thu Nov 26 2009 10:39 AM
Thu Nov 26 2009 10:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Minnesota
S
signguy85 Offline
Member
signguy85  Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Minnesota
I just wanted to give some info on the birdcage signs, as I am the other person who has a few of them. They are 100% original, with original boxes. They came from rayvic garage in minneapolis minnesota. Yes, the boxes are very worn, but I am sure that cardboard doesnt outlast a metal sign. Some of them do have slight rust, but the majority are in near perfect shape. google image search "rayvic repair" and that is the garage. Thanks

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: signguy85] #161946
Thu Nov 26 2009 05:08 PM
Thu Nov 26 2009 05:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 666
Wisconsin
Mr.Wadhams Offline
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Mr.Wadhams  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 666
Wisconsin
I remember seeing the auction on line. They sold in lots of between two 2 and 27....over 125 of them were sold all together. I was amazed when I saw the auction! I did not get any...darn!
Jim


Wanted: Wadhams - Bartles - O'neils - Items
Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: Mr.Wadhams] #161969
Thu Nov 26 2009 09:22 PM
Thu Nov 26 2009 09:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Minnesota
S
signguy85 Offline
Member
signguy85  Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Minnesota
I put one on ebay today, no reserve, just trying to move them.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: gulfiend!] #162470
Mon Nov 30 2009 01:55 AM
Mon Nov 30 2009 01:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 740
Cheyenne, WY
6
67Chev4X4 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
67Chev4X4  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
6
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 740
Cheyenne, WY
I see tray as got another Shell kerosene flange sign on ebay #380183164891 tonight. Same add and pictures as before. Must of had two signs exactly alike.

Re: Shell Kerosene flange sign [Re: 67Chev4X4] #162471
Mon Nov 30 2009 05:34 AM
Mon Nov 30 2009 05:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,978
Evansville, In
Jarvis Offline
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Jarvis  Offline
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Posts: 4,978
Evansville, In
Chevy, This is the 3rd or 4th sign "nos" he has found. How would like to bought the first one and then see the others? What he is doing is fraud and if people would pay with USPS money orders and if a few complained about the fraud the USPS will go after him. I know because i had a guy 1 year ago this month rip me off and USPS is going after him as we speak.


Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.
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