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Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
There is NO reason to NOT DATE A REPRODUCTION other than to Defraud.==== thats a very bold statement
Knowingly representing a NEW item as OLD is Fraud.====i agree

EDITED TO ADD:
There is NO reason to NOT DATE ANY NEW ITEM, FANTASY or 1 OFF.
Removing the DATE/Markings on any item is an attempt to Deceive buyer into thinking item is older than it is, GREED....thats fraud also



should all new stuff be dated ?? decals etc. .......... how easy is it for somebody to do away with the dates on cans, signs, globes etc. ???

how about restorations, should these cans, signs be marked so somebody won't be defrauded years later ?? if you put a new top on a can should'nt that be dated so the buyer knows the whole can isn't original.....how about if i put a new clock motor in a clock, should the outside of the clock be marked, new motor 11-19-2009....

Last edited by roadrelics; Thu Nov 19 2009 07:00 PM.
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W O W...did I start a hornets nest or what. I just read all of these and, if you all remember, I'm the one who first asked the question. I love it. I've bought from Roadrelics for years and he is as honest as anyone I've met. PLEASE don't confuse T-Ray we me...just plain Ray...hotcidr
Love you guys and love this site

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Thanks Ray......good job for finally getting this t-ray guy to come forward ..............i don't think anybody here ever thought you were t-ray....bookmark treasureray to see some of the new repos

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What will happen to the decor items @ Famous Dave's Bar B Q Restaurants when it changes ownership or they switch to a different decor ? Will they fill a landfill or auction it off to to re-decorate ?

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LOL...don't think i need to go thru all this again but will post again just for you ..Famous Daves wanted ONE copy of a 36'' United Service sign in 6 or 7 restaurants, so i hand painted them with a brush...the originals were porcelain not hand painted..... NO OTHER REPOS WERE EVER MADE BY ME, however Famous Daves has its own in house paint,wood,metal shop that turns out repos for their stores by the hundreds..
I did 6 or 7 signs with neon as they don't have a neon shop....

I'll tell the Famous Daves decorators that you are very concerned about this and I will have to get back to you with their answer...LOL


should'nt these restored cans be marked so that years later somebody is not defrauded??? or should these fill a landfill also....How about dating the re-lidding of cans, or should decals be dated ??.... how about all these repo pump parts that are being repoed, are all of these dated ??


how long do you think it would take t-ray to remove the printed date on your cans & put them into circulation on his ebay site??? he has done it with other items already....


Don't get me wrong, I DO THINK REPOS SHOULD BE DATED!!!! but please give me a break, my 6 or 7 signs in no way represent a repo ,THEY WERE HAND PAINTED & anybody with a brain cell can see it!!!!

i am not the one who continues to pump out repos

Last edited by roadrelics; Thu Nov 19 2009 08:08 PM.
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The Bowser signs I had made had the date high into the sign to try to deter anyone from chipping it off the bottom corner to defraud.

Roadrelics.....
YOU were NEVER on trial here.
HE was out of order from the first question.

To quote Homer Simpson.....
"Who do you think you are, Judge Judy and Executioner"...LOL


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jkyocom.......YOU were NEVER on trial here either........


I realize i was never on trial here & I applaud the way you marked your signs, however there are a few things i won't tolerate & one is being call a fraud.......... after one pm to each other i really don't appreciate being called a fraud, because i hand painted 6 or 7 signs....then having the other person post here instead of talking to me, well, i'll post here as well.......


i think you should direct this to somebody else & i think its rather obvious..."Who do you think you are, Judge Judy and Executioner"...LOL................

Last edited by roadrelics; Thu Nov 19 2009 09:21 PM.
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A couple of months ago I ran into Flory Mendicino at a local swap meet and he was selling a repro United Service neon sign. He said a friend of his was making them. I did not ask him if they were dated, or who was making them. never thought about it. A few of you out there know who Flory is. So the United sign tray was talking about may not have been the ones that Roadrelics made. From a distance it looked real but I didn't look at it closely. I wouldn't know the difference anyway. Flory is also the one who had the Frontier lenses without dates made up in the early 80's. He told me close to 10 yr's that was one of the worst mistakes he ever made. Don't quote me on this but I believe he said he had two dozen pair made. Mitch

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Mitch..........i just ran into Flory at the Chicago coin-op show & he had among others the United Service neon sign...it was the 3' version & i could tell instantly it was not real as it was tin & not porcelain....i did not see a date an did not bother to ask as i already knew it was a repo & Flory would have told me the truth either way...

..One thing for sure is I did not call Flory a Fraud, because he is not...i think if anybody did call Flory a fraud would be opening a big can of whop-***** & i would back him 100%...

I know some will say, what about 10 years down the road when some newbie wants to buy this sign.....it will be no different if they buy an undated restored oil can that is not marked....or if they buy a total repo oil can with the date removed.....peoploe including t-ray remove these dates & resell as originals........i have seen many signs that have been conveintly scratched down in the right corner among other places to remove the date.....the oil cans are even easier as they are marked on the seam......
i do still belive all repops should be marked , however lets use a little common sense.,...before you go buy a $3000 neon sign, oil can or anything else, do a little reasearch.../.. BUYER BEWARE

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I think we should legalize drugs and teach our chidren the benefit of safe sex vs. abstinence. I mean seriously, everybody is going to do it anyway.

Saying that crooks are going to remove dates anyway that are placed on recreations, reproductions, fantasy items, etc... is by far the weakest argument for not dating something.


I agree with the statement.."there is no reason NOT to date it"
Obviously we can't control an item once it leaves our hands...but that should not prevent any of us from doing what is right.

In regard to what should be dated, ie...signs, stickers, repops, fantasy items, that has been debated ad nauseum here in the past.

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Originally Posted By: Ohio Oil
I think we should legalize drugs and teach our chidren the benefit of safe sex vs. abstinence. I mean seriously, everybody is going to do it anyway.
In regard to what should be dated, ie...signs, stickers, repops, fantasy items, that has been debated ad nauseum here in the past.


wow, I'm sure glad we got what should & should not be dated cleared up...sure you did'nt miss anything???

how about gun control, i'll bet you have the answer there too...


who ever argued that anything should not be dated,, show me one place where i EVER argued that....go back & re-read...heres what i really said, & i have said it many times in previous posts.......

Quote:
i do still belive all repops should be marked , however lets use a little common sense.,...before you go buy a $3000 neon sign, oil can or anything else, do a little reasearch.../.. BUYER BEWARE


thats about the weakest attempt of somebody trying to put words in my mouth

Last edited by roadrelics; Fri Nov 20 2009 05:17 AM.
t-ray #160921 Fri Nov 20 2009 04:51 AM
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DA DA !! Some one finely said it, use a little common sense. Buy the books , talk to other collectors look at flea bay, RE.SEARCH INVESTIGATE.

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Trust me...I get your point and I'm not putting words in your mouth. You was sure to point out how crooks can easily rub the date off....to me that's a non issue in regard to dating ANYTHING (repop, recreation, or fantasy pieces) in the hobby. Why bring it up....it's a weak argument any way you look at it. Wish I would have thought of the gun control angle to further my point, that's more dear to my heart. smile

You're saying if you recreate something not made with original materials, in other words it's unlike the original it doesn't have to be dated. If it's obviously not genuine to most collectors...the buyer should use common sense..."buyer beware" is the term you used.

I remember several months ago when a recreated globe body wrapped in neon showed up on here. They were made with materials unlike the originals and obviously were not old. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY on here argued that although we all knew they were recreations and not real...those coming after us might not....so the right thing to do was to date them.

Interestingly Darryl...I was in the vast minority making the same argument as you are now, common sense ... and that the buyer needs to do their due dilligence.

The point of my post was that in the hobby we have to understand why we do and don't do things like dating stuff. Let it never be about our concern that someone will just rub the mark off anyway or that we only made a dozen of them as compared to cranking out a hundred.





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I don't belive rubbing a mark off is a non-issue.....My point is to make a mark that can't be rubbed off & thats why i bring it up....


once again my stance is "DATE ALL REPOS"

Last edited by roadrelics; Fri Nov 20 2009 06:17 AM.
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I am with Ohio oil, if you make it DATE IT! It shouldn't matter what it's made of or swapping colors. If you make it on wood and your painting it put a date. If people don't like dates than put copy, if you don't like copy than buy an original!

I will use an example of why stuff should be dated. My dad likes going to auctions, he sees a sign and bids Not always the brightest thing to do but he he likes it he buys it. He did that with several items of coke stuff and had some people tell him after the fact a few things are repop. He went and bought a book on coke stuff since he many pieces now and after getting burned he hasn't bought a coke item since. Does he have to become a "expert" to buy a few pieces? Some guy goes to an auction and decides to buy a sign or globe he shouldn't become an expert to buy a few items for the garage.

Dealing with flat out crooks, people removing dates, making items that are not real will have there day. Pay with USPS money order and if you get taken file a complaint for fraud. Enough people file they will go after the people. I know bevause i got taken last year at this very time and the guy is now getting what is coming to him!


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