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Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17828
Sat Aug 18 2007 07:14 AM
Sat Aug 18 2007 07:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 78
Ontario, Canada
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silent chief Offline
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silent chief  Offline
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Posts: 78
Ontario, Canada
I read this whole thread with interest. I would have to say T Way has come closest to my way of thinking.
I agree that reproductions are necessary and for the stated reasons - outdoor display, restaurant and rec room "themes", originals are wasted here - and nowhere near as available or affordable. People see these reproductions, and maybe it piques their interest in the original side of the hobby.
One can also use original artwork on reproduction globes, decals, etc., to finish a project pump that would otherwise not be possible for the collector of modest means.

But passing off a reproduction as original in a business transaction is fraud.

Knowingly passing off a reproduction as original, in your house or garage, to your friends, neighbors, visitors, co-workers..., well, that is another thing altogether... but up to that person.

Know anybody that wears a fake Rolex? Why would they do that? Same reason, I would think...

That's not the sort of "hobbyist" we're talking about on this board, I don't think.

But hey - if you are a purist, own nothing but originals, and wouldn't have it any other way, well, that's great too! You're a gatekeeper. Every endeavor need experts and purists.

I would guess that most petro collector fall between the two extremes. I know I do.

Just my opinion.

[This message has been edited by silent chief (edited 08-18-2007).]


Always looking for Texaco Canada, Supertest, White Rose, McColl Frontenac, and Miller Oil Co. info.
Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17829
Sat Aug 18 2007 08:41 AM
Sat Aug 18 2007 08:41 AM
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Posts: 3,352
Kelowna British Columbia Canad...
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dodogas Offline
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Just a few thoughts..

If there was no reproduction parts, complete pumps would be far and few between... and just think where the prices would be at.. most of us could never afford a complete pump if that where the case..

Now I appreciate the fact that you can by aftermarket parts for pumps, but it also holds down the price on originals.. which can be good or bad..depends which end of the deal you are on...

Now I am thinking of a problem that will show up, and I am not slamming the dealers when I say this. How many times are pumps sold to buyers as real and all complete when they may have 1/2 dozen or more repo parts on them?? They parts as far as I know are never marked and it largely gets ignored...

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17830
Sat Aug 18 2007 09:03 AM
Sat Aug 18 2007 09:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Santa Paula, Calif
OR
a WAYNE 60 CHANGED to a DUMMY 866
or a TOKHEIM 36B CHANGED to a DUMMY 36B-DP !
IF you don't disclose the change,
ARE YOU NOT COMMITTING FRAUD ?
YOUR SELLING A FAKE !

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17831
Sat Aug 18 2007 09:07 AM
Sat Aug 18 2007 09:07 AM
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Posts: 3,352
Kelowna British Columbia Canad...
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dodogas Offline
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Exactly..

When youbuy an incomplete National duplex, you may put 6 ot more recast parts on it. What you say when you sell it, is what matters..

In the end its all about honesty & disclosure..

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17832
Sat Aug 18 2007 09:43 AM
Sat Aug 18 2007 09:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,913
Guthrie, OK. 73044
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Seth Robbins Offline
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Interesting twist Dodogas. I'm not a car guy, but how does that same question apply to a '32 ford or a '69 camaro. I've heard terms like "all original" or "survivor". Does all original simply imply the motor & trans, body & chassis are all original to each other?? It's definitely food for thought.

I will say, that some if not a majority of repro parts are at least easily discernable from original. I.E. old faces mostly porcelain / new faces screened aluminum, most old castings aren't aluminum, etc. I know that doesn't completely solve the problem since just because I can spot the difference, doesn't mean Joe Blow can.

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17833
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:27 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
Raleigh, NC
BBQ Chicken Offline
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BBQ Chicken  Offline
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Posts: 700
Raleigh, NC
Also, think about this angle....... our time period, in the previous century(1900's)and the seven and a half years of this century(2000's). From the late 1800's through, say, post world war II, it was a pretty remarkable time period as far as technology, commerce, graphics, and advertisement, design ... that time period is the most applicable to what we are talking about as far as the items of discussion........things we collect ...... Now that time period, 1897-1946, that time period in the scheme of things, meaning the overall time table, ain't squat. What I mean, it's not really that "old" in the scheme of things. But it is to the collectibles that we all collect. Well, pause and jump back to a time period a LONG time ago, Mayans, Aztecs, Egyptians, BC/AD, Jesus/God, Old as popcorn dust farts days, ok....... now what about when a tomb is discovered now, or a piece from back in the pyramid days is discovered??? You don't see all these archeologists running and picking up the phone to call there buddy to put in an order for a repro arm, ear, or leg that was missing from a sculptural form or doll from that tomb find do you??? They aren't repainting all the walls in all these rare caves and tombs where these murals are. You don't take items that are original, from a specific AND SIGNIFICANT time period, and just start "destroying" them or sterilizing them. The big Sphinx pyramid that you always see that is half lion or tiger or whatever and half Egyptian that's in all the pictures(I don't get to Egypt much), you don't see them running out there with crews to put the half of his face back on that has eroded away. It just eroded away, it's gone, that's that, they don't fix it or repair it anymore because THEY CAN'T!!! IF THEY DO, IT WILL RUIN IT !!! IT WON'T BE OLD ANYMORE !!! YOU STRIP IT OF ALL THAT IT IS. DEFACE - deface it's ORIGINAL purpose and existance. They don't repair the pyramids do they? Why??? They could, but they don't! IT is what IT IS. You have to say sometimes, I am lucky to have what I have, even though it's not all there, atleast it's true and original. In the high dollar world of antiques, whether it be rare piece of furniture or a gold fish from King Tut's tomb, you don't touch it, you leave it alone. In essence, you guys that don't think of the stuff we collect as significant, and JUST as significant and valuable as other items from other time periods, need to stop and think about what you are doing and teaching. You guys that support repros and the work being done with repros, are saying, "hey, our items and treasures from OUR significant time period, aren't worth preserving to the truest, purest form that we can preserve them." I think they are.......they are. We won't see that fold in time and it probably won't be for another hundred years, maybe two, or three hundred more years, but I do know this; if somebody that has a brain about value and true worth, HISTORICALLY, as well as monetary, found a pump that was left by one of us two hundred years from now, which pump do you think he would rather find or own???.....some repainted, all new sheet metal pump, with plastic and aluminum parts all over it, fake, wierd fantasy globe, new decals that usually never existed in the first place, OR a totally untouched all original pump that has some parts missing??? Same applies with globes and signs...one lens good,one cracked globe with a rusty body and some wear, or a repro globe dated 2006??? just think about it........ what would we all love to drive up on today, or see leaning behind a barn somewhere? I can't wait to go out and find some perfect condition repro stuff leaning behind a barn this weekend! Yaaaaayyyyyyy !!!

[This message has been edited by BBQ Chicken (edited 08-18-2007).]

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17834
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:52 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,785
Lodi, CA.
Signal Gas & Oil Offline
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Lodi, CA.
WOW Just lurking on this one. Ted

------------------
Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield


Ted Pam Ethyl & Polly Roach
Lodi CA.
209-210-8971
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17835
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:55 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 12:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
.......lets go even farther back to the dinosaur age, they were wiped out with tremendous force & many of the bones were lost, destroyed & just plain turned to popcorn fart dust, ok..........when they restore these oldest & rarest items they do use repo bones, they just don't put up a half a dinasour,......


they have restored the mona lisa & many other great paintings, if they hadn't there would be a pile of popcorn fart dust at the bottom of the frame....If you go to the Louve museum in Paris you'll notice they have a full restoration room & i am sure most of the top museums in the world have the same...all these people do is retore all day long....
we are getting away from the point here & should be foucusing on people that are commiting this fraud.........thats where we need to foucus.......

------------------
Roadrelics.com

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17836
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:14 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,352
Kelowna British Columbia Canad...
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dodogas Offline
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Big difference between a national treasure, and something a private party owns outright!

In the country where I live We can do what we like with what we own. I am thinking in the USA it is the same, if so be thankful...

Myself I enjoy a nicely built old bike where they started with a motor and some rusty frame and fork pieces. I have a 14 Harley twin I plan on doing this too, Sorry I dont have 45K to go buy one.. just life!!

Sounds like some on here would rather see an early engine on diplay alone, than a restored vehicle...

Somehow I cant see too many on here that would pay 3-7K for a rare pump and then take a chance that the rest of your life you never see it finished!!.. not likely in my mind..

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17837
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:16 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
Raleigh, NC
BBQ Chicken Offline
Petro Enthusiast
BBQ Chicken  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
Raleigh, NC
half a dinosaur...... sweet !!!

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17838
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:20 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,352
Kelowna British Columbia Canad...
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dodogas Offline
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Are you a chicken modifier???

Some of us prefer originals...

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17839
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:41 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 01:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,246
Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
roadrelics Offline
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Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
no i'm not a chicken modifier, i'd rather eat dodo birds for lunch..............

i also would prefer an original over a repo.....

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17840
Sat Aug 18 2007 02:14 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Santa Paula, Calif
Ebay needs to be Held accountable for allowing the FRAUD to continue. UNTILL THEY ARE, THE FRAUD WILL CONTINUE. It's too easy for them to say the seller is Accountable for items they list.
There NEEDS to be a BETTER way of reporting KNOWN & SUSPECT ITEMS.

WE use to be able to contact a bidder about repo/fraud. Ebay STOPPED THAT.

WE use to be able to retract a bid WITH OUR REASON. Ebay mandates you use 1 of 3 reasons; #1 entered wrong amount,
#2 seller changed description
#3 cannot contact seller.
B.S.
[I want to retract my bid because it's a suspected repo].

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17841
Sat Aug 18 2007 02:26 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 02:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
Raleigh, NC
BBQ Chicken Offline
Petro Enthusiast
BBQ Chicken  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 700
Raleigh, NC
I'm gonna BBQ me some dead chicken in about an hour, and I tell you what, you boys don't know what you are gonna be missin' !!!!!! My dream is to open a restaurant one day that just sells barbecued chicken...... and of course homemade sides....... 'cause I makes it real good like! ....maybe someday...... and the inside is gonna be decorated with a bunch of weird parts of old stuff that you cant tell what it is. You guys are too much!!! Eat chicken, Raise hell!!!....... See all you old bastards at Dixie Gas! Dave

Re: Check out the fakes this guy sells #17842
Sat Aug 18 2007 06:21 PM
Sat Aug 18 2007 06:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,064
Gualala, CA
Scott Baselt Offline
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Gualala, CA
BBQ Chicken.....I hope you're not going to run the restaurant like the Soup Nazi!! LOL



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