Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Storage tanks-above or below ground

Here is a question for all of you!!

Dave R, Darin and I have been doing research on old Hy-Flash and Hi-Speed Gas stations in Ohio and Michigan. We have found alot of the old stations had above ground storage tanks. What is the regulations concering above ground storage tanks anymore?

Are above ground tanks legal anymore?

Railroad tank cars also? Is that legal?

I know that they take alot of space and below ground tanks they are out of sight and mind.

Is it like curbside pumps being a safety issue?

Thanks
randy

Randy;
Above ground tanks are prefered to below ground for small applications. (liability cost I think).

Above ground tanks must have a Secondary containment equal the amount of the tank plus a certain percent to allow for rain water if open.

I suggest you start here: www.epa.state.oh.us

Chuck

Hi, we fabricate above and underground fuel storage tanks. Regulations vary from state to state, some allowing retail from above ground tanks still today, many states do not. Many states require underground tanks to be double wall. Some still require full service (NJ?)
Most large above ground tanks we build are to store diesel for bus and truck companies for fueling their own fleet, or for bulk plants, or industrial/chemical applications.

tokheim;
You might be just the person to answer this question for me. On any given day I may deliver gas to as many as 6 different size ±10,000 gallon tanks.

Why don't they build a 10,000 gallon tank that holds 10,000 gallons?

Not 9,816 or 10,152 or 9,728 etc.... I know internal components change the volume. Just never could figure that out.
You would be amazed, the number of discussions I have been in over the last 20+ years with Station Managers and Owners that their 10,000 gallon tank does not hold 10,000 gallons.
Chuck

Gaspedler, good question. UL makes the manufacturer label the tank capacity based on the shell length only, not counting the capacity in the heads since that is a manufacturing variable, how far they stick out or in etc. To make things more complicated there are striker plates in the tank at least under the fittings... that means the gauge pole is not really on the bottom, it's up an inch or so. So our tank charts compensate for both (some mfg. do some don't)and show that when your gauge pole reads 95" in an 96" "10,000 gallon" tank, it's full and you have 10,117 gallons including the head capacity.
Hope this helps.

tokheim;
That does explain it. I always wondered.

We have a 4" thick binder at work that contains charts for all the tanks we deliver. I can go online and get them from the companies we buy the tanks from for our new builds (recently that is Xerxes).
So when my stick gets an inch short after about 90 days of use maybe I shouldn't replace it for a new one, It may actually be more accurate....lol.

Chuck

Randy;
The late 1980's here in Indiana saw a lot of "Mom and Pop" type stores go out of business, due to new Government regs.
Underground steel tanks had to be replaced or lined with fibeglass and owners were required to carry multi million dollar insurance policies to cover any leakage that may occur.
After that, steel piping had to be replaced with fiberglass lines to the pumps. And in some areas Stage I and Stage II Vapor Recovery required another expensive upgrade.
Most of the bulk plants I've delivered to over the years all had above ground tanks. Bulk plants generally have much larger tanks for storage. All have an earth dike or concrete wall surrounding them as spill containment.
Maybe we can get some old station owners to shed more light on why one was prefered over the other....especially years ago.
The "Tankcar" stations are a good example.
I know they are lurking.
Chuck