Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana Most of us all know but reminder Beware

A local collector to me in massahusetts has started a large inventory auction on ebay last night with gas oil signs clocks toys. I am going to be respectable in my posting. I have been on ebay for many years but have never seen prices jump to rediculous amounts in less than 18 hours from the start of an auction. for the vets they already know but for the novice or beginner gas oil collectors please be aware that prices and bids on ebay are not always honest. And this really stinks for the vast majority of us are 100% honest with all aspects of ebay, and others abuse it which to me should be a criminal offense FRAUD. please if others feel my irritation i know we have spoken about this before but later in the auctions lets nip this in the bud and let everybody know early on and spread the word. Schill Schill Schill.
and if the gentleman is following posts on Primarily Pet. PM me and i would be happy to speak or have a coffee with you I wont hide behind the computer.

DID SOMEBODY SAY SCHILL? I KNEW WHERE YOU WERE GOING AFTER THE 3RD SENTENCE....NOT GOOD.

I retracted my simple response because within 3 minutes of posting I recieved a Threatening phone call left on my answering machine, It scared the ***** out of my kids that were home. If that isn't strange!

I hate shill bidders! If you knew for sure you could report it to ebay.

SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS...SOMEBODY IS ACTUALLY WATCHING US!?
AND THAT SAME SOMEBODY HAS YOUR PHONE NUMBER? THAT'S CREEPY!

Let's be sure of a serious accusation before pointing out a violator. I detest shill bidding as all of you do. But knowing for sure and being suspicious are two different things.

I was kicked off this site for exposing this a couple years ago. Yea, I may have gotten carried away a little, but we all know the truth. I keep myself toned down now, but it is what it is. No way around it. I believe today, buyers are more aware than ever, so let the items get run up, because not many will get the final bid from a legit bidder to "meet reserve". These actions do hurt the hobby and give it a black eye for sure. Just sayin......

If I could only get half the amount of bids on my auctions in 7 days that he gets in 1 day I would be a very happy seller.

In case some of you don't know...shill bidding on ebay is actually a pretty risky and difficult thing to do (and get away with) these days. Ebay has tons of ways of catching it from IP addresses to geographic tracking and computer log ins....and on and on. It is still possible to do one time, with one person, but to do it on any kind of semi-regular basis would be the kiss of death. To get caught is now an instant life-ban from selling on ebay. And with the new regulations required to sell on ebay these days, SSN, bank account, etc.....it's just about impossible for an individual to get kicked off and get back on. So, for those who scream shill....keep in mind, it's a lot easier to scream shill, than it is to do it. Check out ebaystealth.com if you want to learn more about stuff like this.

wow never heard of this ebay stealth..........i don't understand your point..you say it very difficult to get away with schilling, then you give us ebay stealth which lets you create 1000's of identies with friends computers all over the place virtually making it impossible for ebay to catch you or do anything about it, guaranteed.......


it is very easy check & come to your own conclusions if somebody is schilling........just go to the auction, click on the # of bids, then click on the bidders name & it will bring you to a page that tells you the bid activity percentage with that particular seller & even then you can keep your percentages low with these 1000's of names you can create on ebay & paypal.............

Not quite......even the users on ebay stealth will tell you that shill bidding can't be done these days.......so...to spell it out for you...I'd bet 10 to one that the person who is being accused of shilling...is not.....is that clear enough for you??

no, its not all clear at all,i must have missed the part where they say ......"even the users on eBay stealth will tell you that shill bidding can't be done these days"..
& as a matter of fact i am really confused now..ebaystealth tells you how to create & i quote......

"EBay Stealth is a complete 100% guaranteed to work no bull guide to creating new unlinkable fully anonymous eBay and PayPal identities using fully legal methods."


sounds like you know this ebay stealth well... where does it say schill bidding can't be done these days ??? i am sure they are not promoting schill bidding as its illegal, however i didn't see anything about not doing it & it appears that creating all these accounts anonymously is for some other reason than listing violations ????.....i'm just curious as to why you would need all these fake names, fake social security numbers , credit cards in anybodys name & be fully anonymous, etc. etc. etc. ???


here are a few more things they say & are direct quotes from ebay stealth.......

"Of course anyone can show you how to make a thousand accounts, but what good are they if you get suspended again and again. I outline exact step-by-step methods to take in order to keep your new anonymous accounts working. I show you what to do after creating your new account to gather feedback, stay under the radar, and to sell the things you sold before with less chance of being limited or suspended again"


"Learn to be Fully Anonymous You will learn how to cloak your online presence, not only for eBay but for anywhere else you might go online"

"Stay Under the Radar I give you tips and techniques you can use to stay under the radar - minimizing your chances of getting suspended again."

You're confusing the AD the guy posts there with the people that post on there. Read it for a week or so and maybe you'll get it...but probably not. I did not mean to endorse the guys ad...the people that post on there are just people who, most of them, know ebay ins and outs pretty well...To really spell it out for you...the guy posting the ad, is pretty much saying anything he can to sell you his product...but maybe you aren't savy enough to get that...or maybe I didn't make myself clear enough the first time........if your "simpleton" approach to identifying shill bidding is all it took...well...I can't even find word for that.

oh i love it, now comes the name calling & belittling----you sure are getting worked up about this specific thread & it being your first post , WOW ---LOL-- do you have something to gain here????

...ok , i just love your wording & i quote again "the guy posting the ad, is pretty much saying anything he can to sell you his product"

what happened, in your last post you said & i quote "even the users on eBay stealth will tell you that shill bidding can't be done these days" , really where do they say this in their ad??..

..are you saying you can't schill bid, BUT, you can create a 1000 different names , fake social secuity #'s, fake address's. fake names on credit cards & be completely anyomous, however don't try & schill bid LOL LOL, Why bother with all the fakeness then ??



oh, by the way i'm not confusuing the ad with the customers quotes....even i can get that straight

you sure like to mis-quote, use words like pretty much, pretty well & put words in other peoples mouths....looks like your a pro at double talk,
trying to confuse & muddle things up however you won't confuse me buddy, its all in black & white

ok buddy check this out.THERE IS SCHILLING ON EBAY & ITS RAMPANT, OK. DO YOU GOT IT NOW!!...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to fiqure that out... don't try & use your lines like pretty much,pretty well & put words in others mouth because you won't fool me & others..its happening OK.....i have not & won't accuse anybody of it, none of my business, however it happens , OK

By the way, whats your ebay name & how many feedback do you have??? you registered yesterday with no information at all.....

ebaygenious, SO easy to hide behind an Anonymous User name & say anything you want.

Lets keep in mind here guys,,,, if the accusations that guys are saying on here in regards to schill bidding wouldn't be enough to standup and convict someone in a court of law then they shouldn't be made in this public forum. Just my opinion..

A few years ago there was a discussion on here about someone shill bidding on ebay. The guy that was doing the shill bidding got on here and defended the practice! He had multiple user ID's that he would use to shill bid. He also mentioned at least one other person (his son) that would shill bid on his items and the person's items this topic is about. He also posted that the seller in question would shill bid for him as well. I searched and can't find the topic. I suspect it was moved to the moderator's forum.

Lets becareful as we all know what happens when personal attacts take place. Threads get locked and people get suspended.
Lets get back to the original topic... buyer beware! This thread was started to let guys know what was happening... bidding high and early. Not the normal for gas and oil ebay auction unless it's rare stuff.

All I see are olddgas guy guessing why.

I just wish I had some of the signs, beautiful signs and great toys. Just think of the fun of finding or buying such great items, and great to see them on ebay or any other place just to know what is out there.

Craig... not me! I like being a collector way more than being a dealer. Those are to totally separate hobbies.

Bottom line is ...

If you have proof of something phony going on in an eBay auction, click the Report link there to tell eBay about it.

If you are suspicious of a seller, the auction item or the bidding activity, keep your money in your pocket and your fingers away from the bidding button. But if it is something that you are highly motivated to get, bid with both eyes open and only up to what you are comfortable with. Don't let any person or situation push you into a place you may regret.

And ...

OMG, if I ever get in trouble, I hope nobody comes to my "defense" by posting a link and methods on how to do objectionable things.

Jim, Thanks for bringing us back on Topic...i agree it is always "buyer beware" no matter if its an undated repo, schilled, no matter what "buyer beware" or at least protect yourself.......Unfortunately not everybody has the knowledge or expertise to do so & thats where this forum & thread become invaluable.....I just learned about ebay stealth..LOL

I can agree with that

Please tone it down a notch. Nobody appreciates comments like this on Oldgas.

Ryan

I have seen these items and yes they do have a lot of bids. My honest opinion is most of the gas and oil signs on ebay are not top quality. It is very rare you see a "Mint" sign on ebay. Most of the signs I have seen are anywhere from a 3-6 on a scale of 1 to ten. Most of the bids do come at the end, but this seller does have some rare items and the condition of them is very good. It is odd to see an item jump so fast, but even as a novice collector I know that quality items sell fast. I have seen so many poor signs on ebay sell for crazy prices and I think "who is buying these signs for that price. I was at an auction a few weeks back and repro mobil pump plates were selling for $300 +. Most of these items are quality and some are rare. It is always good to be on the look out- especially the way this hobby has grown and the inflated prices of these gas items. Just my 2 cents.

I guess that somehow some way somebody took my reply to this wrong. I was mearly saying that the signs were great and finding them would be also great. Does not mean that you would have to sell all, I certainly do not. I can only afford a few things and sometimes have to sell in order to proceed with other things in life. I wish that after seeing all that I have sold over 25 years, I could have kept it all. Would need a big place though, and lots of dollars to restore it all.

Guess I am as dumb as a bag of hammers. Would someone PM me an auction number so I can look and judge for myself? i will keep it confidential. Thanks

HERE'S ONE OF THE AUCTIONS FOR STARTERS: 390267512767

oh.....thanks

Many of the items being sold by this person were purchased on ebay, all you have to do is compare his feedback items to what he is selling. I know the vertical Pontiac neon was listed on ebay at least twice before selling.

I usually do not comment on these discussions however Jim said it well: don't get pushed into anything you can't afford. My recent light purchase just proved that point. With ebay things which once were thought to be rare ... is like a train or bus wait a week and another one will be along. Yes even the "rare" item though it might take a bit longer. Believe me I see things, especially with todays economy ending fairly cheap and often think to myself that I could buy it and resell it - but where would i sell it - on ebay where it just was. Then why didn't someone bid higher. And I know darn well I can't afford to sit on it until the economy gets better. So the more power to him thinking that he can buy something on ebay and resell it so quickly and make money on it - which is why he thinks the assisted bidding thing works in his favor. For as many times as his auctions ends without meeting the reserve I don't see how with the listing fees he makes any money in the end (course I was talking about the old days when ebay charged a listing fee - unlike today's which are free cause they are feeling the pinch too.) Is it wrong.. yes but as long as you only pay what you are willing to then whom is it hurting. I can not stress the patience thing enough. For 99.8% of the items on ebay there WILL be another one. John

I had seen these items as well, and was quite impressed, i wish mine were that hot of an item!!!! but yeah that thousands in hours

I like being both ! ( Collector and Seller )...

wow, i also just recieved hate email & threatning phone call regarding this thread, ..ouch, that really hurt.... LOL LOL

Darryl--Really? I don't get it? Everyone in the world has differing opinions on the way things should be done and thats the nice thing about this forum. I don't always agree with posters, but I try to keep an open mind and look at things from others viewpoints! I always feel that the more information available, makes for a more informed decision regarding any subject!
I just don't think theres any place for threats in this subject or any other for that matter!

I looked at the percentages of bids each bidder has had with that seller. I see several High percentages.......30%, 41%, 50%......and so many more. To me that says SCHILL!!!!!!!!! Hell one I found was 57% and all his bids are in three fields only......Gas, soda and only one car. The last bid he did is on a car that has just over 4 days left on it. Miraculously someone has a car for sale and the price in one day has gone up almost $50, 000. So you do the math!

You guys sound like your having more fun than me, wish i would get some threats once in a while. Would anyone like to clue me in on why someone would pay 580 for a stop sign???

I used to think this guy got premium prices because he put out such a great book. Thought some people might think a sign purchased from him could appear in the pages of a new book???

You guys have schooled me on this fellow before. Anyone remember the crisco sign or the homeade Indian motorcycle sign??

Why hasn't anyone used a name ? The sellers name is Amistadie He published books as price guides on high dollar advertising pieces.

What I think is that his name alone carries the same prestige for some collectors as being able to say " Oh I got mine at Barrett Jackson " To some perhaps that sort of thing is worth paying whatever it take to buy something.

Or on a more practical note, perhaps some buyers feel they can be assured of quality because the seller will not risk his reputation by mis-repesenting a piece. So with these thoughts in mind, I don't think shill bidding is a factor in this case. But I could be wrong.

Or on a more practical note, perhaps some buyers feel they can be assured of quality because the seller will not risk his reputation by mis-repesenting a piece. So with these thoughts in mind, I don't think shill bidding is a factor in this case. But I could be wrong.

LOL

The guy does get lots of GOOD THINGS.Whether he buys them at noon for a thousand and sells them at noon thirty for 10 thousand makes no difference. He had the brass ones to buy it for the thousand AND ask the big number. Can`t fault him for that. He does have an attitude,but don`t we all? My thoughts are if you want it,buy it.If not stay away.Simple as that. Why spend all day griping? It`s a beautiful winter day and we should all be out playing in the snow(if you have snow) Sounds like a little jelousy and old animosity here. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

IMO
Shill bidding can be done and is probably still done on ebay.
The seller is pretty well known which might attract high bids and most of the stuff is pretty nice.
Some guys just don't know about sniping and continue to drive the price up during an auction.
If I suspect shill bidding is taking place I just stay away from the auction and who cares because maybe there is more than one shill so who cares as they will get stuck with it.
No confrontation here just MO. Ted

Tydolwave, i am typing this with much respect to your coment & I'm not trying to offend or attack you or your comment in any way as many of your points are valid....hey if you can buy it @ noon & get $10k by evening thats a beautiful thing. Can't fault anybody for that, unless its done illegaly..you are right, Most of us have attitudes, except for great people like KW who is just a good genuine, honest person at heart with zero bad intentions...there are also many here like KW & you never see a bad word from them.......you are very correct when you say, if you want it buy it, everybody should know there limitations however there are many new people (with money) in this hobby who don't have the knowledge of value & there philosophy is , if somebody bid $9000 for this great sign it must be worth $10k, just like at many auctions....

.....The problem comes when you break the law... using these programs like ebay stealth to create many idenities with many fake ebay accounts to bid on your own items & using friends and family to do the same, thats illegal....If you want $10k just ask $10& quit all the games.....why produce these fake identities here on old gas like "ebaygenious" & "Bongo Uddin" LOL LOL, sorry but that one still cracks me up..... I am not one of the jealous ones of him, i have a great life, health & am very fortunate to have great friends & family and in the end it kind of boils down to that...no amount of money can buy it
so again i want you to know that i am trying to be very respectful to your response & in no way show want to show you any disrespect...thanks DT

i would also like it known that i am not accusing anybody of shilling, however these new old gassers {"ebaygenious" & "Bongo Uddin"}LOL that just registered with no names or contact info look suspicious, i wished they would clear it up & tell us who they are ???? i am getting slammed from these guys with lies & it just seems strange that they hide there identities, unless they have something to hide... stand up be a man & use your real idenity......

We are done talking about shill bidding on this topic. If you have proof, than present it to ebay. Guessing and trying to discredit a seller will stop now!

I believe the point was made that buyers beware of possible inflated prices.

I am 100% in agreement to this:



I have left this topic open and unedited to allow the person who feels he is the object of unfair suspicion to post his side of the situation. He has called me a bunch of times insisting he wants to post a reply. I have personally supplied his lost password to him.

Please keep in mind the "person who feels he is the object of unfair suspicion" can not personally attack any members. He is more than welcome to post and tell his story but no personal attacks!

Mr. Daryl,thanks for your kind reply. Mostly you are correct.However Ebay is just like a "real" auction. The rules are in place,we all know what we SHOULD do and mostly we do. The problem arises when that itty bitty little thing called money comes into play. We`ve all been to real,live auctions and seen the guy in the corner bumping his own goods,with or without the explicit help of the auctioneer. And, no fingers pointed,but we all know someone that does it,whether we admit it or not.Call it a reserve,munimum or buyers premium,it all adds up to protection and it`s the rare individual that will let sopmething that he`s paid 5 k for sell for a few hundred--IF he can help it. I stay away from auctions that I don`t stand a chance at,but play the game at the ones where I can at least have a small chance.Most times something sneaks through.Same on Ebay. I`m cautious, I bid what I want to pay and go to bed. If I get it,great.If not,theres more fish in the pond.Why bother fighting? I must say though that Bongo and a few other newbies I see here seem like they are solely here to provoke. Think like a dog: Sniff him a little,growl a little then forget him and go play in the snow. You`ll be much happier,and you`ll live longer.

I'm not going to comment specifically about the seller in question.

Don't think for a minute that every "sale" on ebay is completed. There have been cases where shill bidders drove the "apparent" sale price up but the transactions were not completed. What does this accomplish? It raises the "perceived" value of that item. For example: A legitimate bidder may bid $6000 for an item, but a couple shill bidders can run the item up to $10,000. The item doesn't really sell for $10K but it raises the perception that the sign is now worth $10K which makes it allot easier to sell to someone else for $9K!

Then there are cases where the shills run the price up and drop the item on an unsuspecting buyer for an artificially inflated price.

These things do happen, and it they are illegal. I have a friend that teaches at an auction school. He says that the penalties for shill bidding are quite hefty and can include jail time.

Good points were made all around.
Buyers need to be aware of all issues that can affect their purchase.
Mr. Amistadi has declined to post a response.
This topic will be locked.