Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Poll: Value Questions moved to New Forum?

Another forum category has been proposed for Petroliana Value Questions. They have been part of the General Petroliana Discussion forum.

Vote your preference to make a new forum or keep value questions in General Discussion.

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Split off petro collectible value questions into a new forum? single choice

Make a new forum for Value Questions (64%, 53 Votes)

Keep Value Questions in General Discussion (36%, 30 Votes)

Total Votes: 83 Voting on this poll ends: Fri Jan 21 2011 09:00 PM

A Value Forum would be great IF comments were kept just to the value.
Would make for easier scanning w/o;
"I like your sign"
"would look good in/on my Barn/Fence/Wall/Collection/etc."
"I bought mine 5yrs ago for $XXX in better condition"
"here is what it looks like in better condition"

yes i agree with DB only if it were for asking "hey, what's this sign/can worth" and getting a response that applies to todays market. ex: Q= hey guys whats this can worth? A= $25 IMO.

We would have to come up with some guidelines so that it stays on track and doesn't turn into a mixture of For Sale, Showcase or General Discussion forum.

Here are the Guidelines we should go by........

I agree, it's to easy to get off track. Value only...if that's possible!

DB is right on,Value only. When some of us veteran collectors that's been around awhile state a value, our opinions are based on knowledge gained from years of being in the hobby, going to swap meets,car shows,antique shows,auctions and trends over time. most of this is in our heads. While my opinion on something may be different from DB in california,KZ in the east or Paddy in the south, it's our opinions based on our personal experience. So whoever asks for value on an item, expect to get differing opinions and weigh them all collectively to draw your own conclusion as these are just that, our opinions. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;Ron

Could be tough.

If you add a new forum, you'll need the additional guidelines to keep comments focused on value....and the moderators will have to devote more time to making sure those guidelines are followed. Jim & Ryan, do you really want to add to your work load? It's easy to sit back and say the site should have this or that, but the people saying that aren't the ones that have to spend their time making sure the rules are followed. More guidelines or rules = more work for the mods. The mods will have to edit or delete more posts which = which will give more members something to complain about.

Another guideline should be no "I saw someone ASKING $$$$$ on Ebay or Craigslist" ....only sold for should be accepted. This one is really one of my pet peeves!

Jim

FIRST AND FOREMOST ARE DECENT PICTURES OF SAID ITEM LOOKING FOR VALUATION. ALOT OF TIMES ONLY ONE PICTURE IS PROVIDED OF A CAN, SIGN, GLOBE OR A PUMP. SEEING/VIEWING ALL SIDES OF AN ITEM IN QUESTION IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO GET AN HONEST OPINION. CLOSE-UPS OF TROUBLE AREAS AND DATES/MFGRS ARE ALSO A PLUS SINCE MOST OF THE APPRAISERS
CAN'T BE THERE TO HANDLE THE ITEM. JM3C!

I voted for the new forum on values because I would hope the seperation might encourage more interesting discussions under the regular forum.If you recall,there have been a few recently that made us as a group really think,analyze and try to help people with what I considered worthwhile projects.

I think that is an area where our knowledge and experience can really be of benefit to newbies and veterans alike.

My pet peeve is people who get on here and ask the value on EVERY item they purchase. Like stated above, there are other places to do your own research. I'm not saying I haven't asked values before either, but it does get old seeing the same people post "what's it worth" all the time.

I agree with Tara. Like I just replied to JimmyD's post on globes, do LOTS of studying and leg work before jumping on here every 5 minutes asking what the item is worth. The internet is a wonderful tool, for sure, on so many levels. It should take about 5 minutes on Ebay to see what a common can or item is worth in today's market. I use it all the time to get ideas of value and I work from there and make my own decision.
I too have asked over the years for values, but generally those have been in regards to really top grade or hard to find items which are harder to research the generic easy ways, and the help of experts in our field is my best option.
Darin

Amen.

The sub forum would be a asset & then all the grumpy old men could just stay away if they don't want to share there experience with anyone else ,or anything helpful,instead of making a comment that might turn a newcomer away from the hobby,"AND HURT THERE FEELINGS" they won't understand that it might just be someones "SINCE OF HUMOR" or there "CHARTER DEFECTS" & be turned away for good!It's a shame because it's "THE GRUMPIER OLD MEN" with all the "TANGIBLE EXPERIENCE"......anyways, I'm all for the section!Jim has a good point ,about other venues & what sellers are asking,we all know there are alot of folk's that are "VERY" proud of there stuff & put prices that make no since,current market is "ALL"that matters to me & what someone is willing to pay! I would really like to see the forum make it! It just burns some of these folks hemorrhoids up to see a young whipper snapper get a sign in the wild & then come to the board & get a price and not sell it to them ,THEY wanna be the one who is "BEATING" you out of your sign "that's all"and lash out when you ask about info & value! The young little urban kid's here down south call them type folk's HATERS! LOL...........

Tara is right. It can become board spam. How about limiting value request to a certain # per month? (Although it might be a nightmare for the mods to monitor)

...yep...

I post on a tractor forum that has a wonderful feature that could alleviate some of the pet peeves some of us have on this site. The tractor site allows users to add people who encourage dispute, or are just plain annoying to an ignore list.

You don't like reading the "what's it worth" topics from the same people every day? Add them to your ignore list.
Don't like reading posts by grumpy old men? Add them to your ignore list.
Don't like seeing someone post photoshopped pictures? Add them to your ignore list.

How 'bout it Jim? Can you add an ignore feature?

I noticed that the price questions come in two categories...

1. What is this worth? (I am thinking of buying)

-and-

2. Was it worth what I paid for.

I am guessing #1 is asked by folks with a little bit of know how--at least to ask the experts on this forum--and can easily go into a separate category with concise pricing answers, and if # 2 is an impulse buy from a regular forum member, then that seperate category could work for #2.

Alot of the #2 questions though seem to start "I am new to this..." What if #2 is by a newbie who has no idea...

For the new person asking number 2, someone sending a pic "Here's mine in better condition" or "here is a similar product from the same company" might be more educational and could lead to follow-up questions about restoration, etc. How would the moderators stop the new person excited (or now mad) and about a purchase from follow up questions?

Also where would you put the duel questions such as -is this a repo and how much is it worth?- Would that be under the more stream lined category?

Something to think about...

What? Did you say something to me, Bob? Let me turn off my "Ignore Everybody" filter for just a moment. lol

Sorry Bob, but that's not a feature available with this software. A new major upgrade has been promised for the UBB.threads software we use but I have no solid date for it to be released.

We do have some members who are "grumpy old men" and some very grumpy younger folks as well.

Its good to know that members here are not willing to help a new person. There are many items I have asked about and I could not find a value on at ebay, or they were priced way too high to get a fair market value. I am glad to see this pole favors the new forum, because I would hate to make these grumps see another post titled whats the value, which apparently would ruin their whole day.

Thanks Oldgas for considering adding a new forum!

Jim:

I beg to differ - that feature is currently available on this site.

Simply 'Click' on the registered users name on any of thier posts and select 'View Profile' from the drop-down menu.

Once their Profile loads - the 'Ignore this user' button/text is in the middle of the page in the 'tan' band. 'Click' on the text and you will no longer see any text in that user's future postings.

Later . . .

Jim

If we had that, I would not be able to ready any posts, LOL


Im torn weather to support this idea of another section or not. I think it would encourage more people to ask "what is this worth?" and I already think there is way to much of that going on. I also dont think that the moderators need any more sections that will need constant attention, especially if there are a bunch of guidelines for that section.

Its easy to say we need this or we need that. Put yourselves in my shoes for a day. Sometimes (especially lately) I spend literally hours editing, deleting, and moving topics. Adding yet another section with a bunch of rules will only increase this, in my opinion.

I dont know that I hate the idea, but Im not in love with it either. There have been some good points for it either way, but right now, I would have to say no.

Thanks, T-way!
I was not aware of that because that option is not available to me as a moderator. I guess I'm doomed to have to see everything no matter what. lol
I just checked and saw a regular member can indeed block certain members just as you said.

Ok, I will weigh in here, for what its worth. I am an "enthusiast" more than a real collector or buyer/seller. I enjoy coming here and just seeing what everyone is collecting and restoring.
Isn't this new proposed forum going to be a nightmare to monitor? Suppose a new guy to the hobby asks what a sign is worth and posts a pic. Maybe some guys think it isn't worth much because they believe its a repro. The new guy will ask why they think its a repro. Discussion ensues on if its original or not..and on and on.
It seems this all started because some people are apparently abusing the good graces of the experts here asking " whats it worth" all the time. Isn't the simple solution to simply not respond if you don't want to? That way we can help out sincere people/new guys and just ignore those who you think are taking advantage.
Finally, I will just add that I think the issue is deeper than this. Its obvious that some guys here do not like each other for whatever reason and take their shots when they can. We are a diverse bunch of people here, and it can't be expected that we will all be buds, but we all have one thing in common so we should try to focus on that.
Who wants a beer?
John

Hi John;

A beer sounds good to me! Next time I am in your area (I have not been to Vermont yet however!) I will give you a call and stop in for a cold one!

Seriously though folks, the Oldgas site is about exchanging information, sharing our latest purchases, and getting to know collectors who share the same passion we do. Do I like everyone I meet at shows or everyone I this site? The answer is NO. However, I am always glad to help ANYONE with advice.

I don't have strong feelings either way on whether to add another forum but it just sounds like more work for Jim and the rest of the Moderators.

I grew up in Hard working, God fearing family and I was always taught that if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all! Jim, if you want to add another forum that is ultimately your decision. In the meantime my advice to all collectors whether new collectors or veterans, is the same - Buy what you like and can afford and have fun collecting!

There, thats my 2 cents!

Lonnie

There are very good points across the board here & I agree with all of them. I think the biggest thing that rubs someone the wrong way is the negative or sarcastic remark about there idem or for them even asking the value question. I have very recently talked to members here that have had this happen & it really has rubbed them wrong the wrong way. So I think if the topic of the value of a item or items stays directly on the value of it will work out better for everyone. Also remember if someone lists that item on Ebay or Craigslist that is there choice & that it is there idem to do with as they please. JM2C

John & Lonnie very well put! quote:I was always taught that if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all! AMEN!

Thanks for the info T-way....Hmm, who should be the first on my list?

Ryan, BTDT. I'm one of the few that know how much time it takes to moderate this site. I remember when Jim asked me to be a moderator. He jokingly posted that I accepted the job before he could tell me what the pay was (nothing).

When I need a price on something I try the following:

Search COMPLETED auctions on ebay. It's useless to search current listings because most serious bidding happens in the last few minutes of the auction.

I look at the auction results that Matthews Auctions sends me.

I also look at auction results on Aumman Auctions website but for the most part their info is not current.

Or I call or email dealers or other collectors.

I think it could be helpful but a couple of things I would add is :

1. I would find a new moderator just to manage the new category. That way things would be less likely to spriral out of control.

2. It should be clearly understood it is not a category to try and attract buyers to the item in question. I can see that opening up a p.m. message fest with the possibility of people getting hacked off.

deep subject.. lol

I voted "leave it alone."

I also feel that adding a section for values will just push the hobby further into the realm of a for-profit business. There's already too much of that, and it's only encouraged by shows like Roadshow and Pickers. Because in real life we can't see a screen pop up that says "Paid 50, Value 100, Profit 50" immediately after buying something, people are turning to the forum for this info with increasing frequency.

At least now, in General Petro, most people ask "history, time period, and maybe value" because they either care, or are trying to look like they care, about the history and dates. With a forum dedicated just to values, there will be no shame.

I guess I'm just disgruntled with the recent increase in commercialization of the hobby. I know it's always been that way, but it's getting worse.

But, in the end, this is not a democracy. I think it's really up to Jim whether to do it or not.

Wes

I don't think a lot of these guys mind helping and answering questions about what's it worth, its just a lot of the common stuff that comes up all the time. Like they said go back and look at ebay under completed or the Matthews Auctions. Now something you don't see every day that's different. What get's me is they want to know what it is worth and they just use this sight and take it some where else to flip it. and don't even give us a chance to buy it. I think lot of these guys on here are in this hobby to make a buck. I'm just more of a guy that likes collecting gas& oil stuff for my own enjoyment and displaying it. I think these moderators have a full time jobs and this is just creating more work for them.

I think collectors buy a few things with an eye towards selling for a profit as a way to fund their personal collections. There has to be a certain amount of commercialization in our hobby or none of us would ever be able to buy anything. I have a very different view of shows like Pickers. Even though their values can often be off, the fact that they make the general public aware that people collect oil cans, signs, etc keeps allot of stuff from going to the scrap yard.

After some thought I won't be giving my opinion on value questions any more. You younger fellas have a wealth of infomation at your fingertips, e-bay, auction results the internet etc. Us older members did'nt have the information you younger members have,we learned the hard way. I just don't think you appreciate that we're trying to be helpful. Someone said in an earlier post that fair market value is all that matters, please explain how you determine this, It's basically how bad do you want it. This stuff is'nt on Walmart shelves. As far as a new forem I,m neutral, if you do it Jim your a glutton for punishment. I'm not going away because I'm not too old to learn. ;;;;;Ron

I agree Ron. It boils down to how bad you want something. One year at Peotone I paid nearly a grand for 3 rusty cans that most guys would kick out of the way to get to the shiny stuff but they were extremely rare cans that fell within the focus of my collection. I was happy to have the opportunity to buy them.

another small problem that I have seen more of recently is a post will go on for 2 pages with a poster trying to pin down the value of an item, when someone shoots a price they come back with "Oh good because I only paid $$ for it" If you start the post off with I just bought this for $$, how do you think I did, You'lll get a much better response

OILEASE55 wrote

Someone said in an earlier post that fair market value is all that matters, please explain how you determine this, It's basically how bad do you want it. This stuff is'nt on Walmart shelves.

Couldn't of said it better.

The buyer's thinking a buck, the seller's thinking a 100 bucks. Reverse the rolls played, reverse their thinking !!!

Market Value ? No such thing as far as I'm concerned. There's way to many variables involved.

Leave it be Jim, nothing but more trouble and work in my book....

oilease55, you are right....it is how bad you want it,however i can get caught up in the moment with that kind of thinking at a sale,auction,ebay or private sale,PRIOR TO BUYING!if i do not get a good idea of what the "market is doing" RIGHT HERE & RIGHT NOW"& do my due diligence, i might over pay,heck,I WILL OVER PAY,i no longer thumb through the books for value,i have used as a rough guide,however those prices are in la la land & are old,on anything i spend a red cent on i treat as a investment & watch current & past sales to base my decision on what i will spend on that item. I make sure that if i bail out of the investment, i will re-coop my money and some! Somebody said that's it's hard to determine market & there's a lot of variables ,i could not agree with you anymore ,your exactly right & that's probably why i miss out on a lot of pieces that i run across,i rarely get emotionally attached & get into the, "I HAVE TO HAVE IT" kind of thinking!I just try to be wise with my money that's all and meant absolutely no disrespect to you oilease55,when you do chime in ,i am all ears! i appreciate your input & everyone else that is here to better the hobby & help others!

note : the book i was referring to are the advertising books!

After reading all the comments I voted to leave as is.

I think maybe a better option would be to pin a post to the top of the General Discussion section with "suggested" guide lines for posting Items seeking value.
Many of the postings are from "Newbies", who found this site looking for an answer. Pinning a post at the top would place it in a very conspicuous location up front they would see.
I think there are suggested ideas already on the site, but many people don't take time to research a websites resources, they want a quick answer.

I would hate to see too many restrictions put on a new forum. I have seen several postings "I found this in my grandfathers garage, is it worth anything?" and it turns out to be a very rare piece with interesting discussion.

Adding a new forum would just add more workload for the moderators.
M2CW
Chuck

I voted to add a new forum so all those items would be in one location. The only requirement I would add is for the person who is posting. They should list what the item is in the topic heading. Moderators can just be sure the topic heading is correct and change it if necessary. Just my opinion but they have too much to do already. If it turns out the item becomes available for sale, it doesn't matter to me. Just leave it where it was originally posted.

Who responds and how they respond to the post is no different than any other category and membership rules get enforced. I must be the only sick one out here that occasionally enjoys the discussion between x's and y's. Different opinions, different styles of communicating, it will always be a part of this forum and it's my choice to read or not. The moderators do a great job of cutting off the discussion when it is going in the wrong direction. So, let the moderators do their job without any additional restrictions in the category.

Personally, I would like to see a separate forum for Prayers which is moderated by Tara. I just think it would be easier for all of us to go to one location - all the time.

Lastly, I miss the quick reference of the number of posts for each member. I know how to get the info but miss it being quickly available. Why? I like the fact I can see how many new people are coming into this addiction.

I just went back and reviewed this entire thread.The more I think about it,the more I agree with Nicole and Gaspedler regarding a rare piece that someone found.The value doesn't concern me because we would probably be guessing anyway,but at least we can enjoy seeing it and it may lead into some interesting follow-up disscussions.

Maybe Gaspedler's idea for "suggested"guide lines,if gently reminded to someone when necessary be the moderators,would work.I could live with that to get to see some more rare stuff.

Am I changing my vote?Not yet,but I'm sure thinking about it!!

I am new to this hobby and find the "what's is worth" threads very educational. I am so impressed by the wealth of knowledge on this site. Yes, there is a lot of info that can be found elsewhere online, but I am not well-versed enough to find it, or I don't believe it to be as trust-worthy. (There have been many times where I see comments about how people can't believe how much someone is overbidding on ebay.) I also understand the idea of paying what it is worth to you, but I don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of because I don't have years of experience. I have gone to the Peotone show several times but am hesitant to buy anything because I assume that the item is overpriced, otherwise someone would have bought it already! I want to continue to learn from this site and hope that those of you with the knowledge and experience don't become too upset by some newbies and let them ruin it for others.

Hey lv2xlr8: Welcome to the hobby and this site. I like your comments. I have been colecting for over 10 years and i still scratch my head sometimes,(OK, most of the time) trying to figure out a fair price. (either buying or selling) I come to this site and value everone's opinion, even if I don't agree with it. LOL. Feel free to ask questions.

Take a chance on buying something. if you like it buy it. Do some research on ebay and some of the past auction sites that are listed here on oldgas.

Quite frankly I'm amazed at the general tone of how annoyed many of the members, especially senior or well experienced members are at the questions posed on matters of value. I was of the opinion that Oldgas membership prided itself on helping others. I didn't realize only when it was deamed "important enough" to meet your high standards. "Back in the day" , as many of you old timers have boasted how you could find truck loads of items for little money. You also benefited early in the hobby of not having to deal with the mountains of reproduction an knock off material flooding the market. Valuation drives much of our hobby. Yes, there are those who seem to be looking to turn a buck. I'll bet there isn't person here who either hasn't sold an item or traded and did this based on "known" or perceived values. Don't misunderstand me. I'm all for someone doing some research/homework on their own and asking continually for values on everything they own can be overdone. Yes there may be some extra work on the part of moderators (who do an excellent job in my opinion) but I've always believed that work pays off in the end with a full service site that can't be outdone. I've benefited many times over from asking questions even when I was feeling a little stupid about the questions I was asking. I can say this much after reading through the majority of the posts, I'll certainly try not to waste anyone's time asking questions about value so as not to put anyone out based on their comments put down here.

I agree...

I certainly think by having a separate forum for pricing would eliminate the complaints against those wanting prices to resale, add to their collection or just whatever. Those that do not wish to participate in helping another members regardless of their motives do not have to open the link and can continue enjoying the sight as they see fit. I have benefited from others not only at this sight but from collectors that do not use the internet and have found it helpful and could base a decision accordingly. This can be an expensive hobby and stepping in to start buying signs globes gas pumps can be very intimidating. I consider myself a collector and it has taken me 7 years of buying and selling to get me to the point where I feel satisfied with the quality, rarity and quantity that I have been able to assemble over the years. I have lost money and made money on the items I have purchased but I understand that when I buy frequently you are not always going to win on every deal. This is also a part of the educational process and you do your best to minimize the mistakes. I do not mind helping the people who are in this hobby no matter how long they have been collecting because we simply can not know everything about every sign globe gas pump etc. that is out there. I experience buyers/seller remorse often and know that will not change. I love this hobby and will always find room for one more sign, gas pump or globe!

A "volunteer" has agreed to be the moderator for the new forum. We will try the forum out to see if it is an improvement that is worth the effort.

I'll work on guidelines with the moderator and set up the new forum over the weekend. Hopefully this specialization will allow those who are willing to help, a place to do it as well as those who are annoyed by some aspects of it, to ignore it.

Thanks for all your ideas and opinions.