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#233110 - Sat Feb 12 2011 03:32 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
Bud Miley Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 02 2011
Loc: Greenup, IL
Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
WE don't care that REPOP's are being made. WE would like to see ALL REPOP's MARKED/DATED in a permanent manner.


Dick, That is a very broad We Donít Care statement I think.. Let me ask you, You make and sell high dollar oil cans, and whats going to happen when your cans show up with scratched off dates .. spot rusted etc in the market? It will happen if not already. Do you emboss stamp the metal with the date or just print it? Are your cans permanent marked? How can you tell the difference between your cans and the originals...Curious. Thanks

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Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#233112 - Sat Feb 12 2011 03:45 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Gary Drye]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Originally Posted By: Gary Drye
I have been a member on this site since its infancy and original vs repo has been discussed so many times I can't count them. One question has never been clearly answered IMO, except for the affordability issue. Why would anyone even want a repo/fantasy item?

I fully understand the necessity for repo globes and the 12 inch signage for restoring a pump. Bought many myself when I used to restore pumps. A guy wanting a Polly pump is not going to pay for an original globe and decals...if they could even be found. So I have no problem with this segment of the hobby.



Gary,

Are you even hearing what you're saying? What's the difference from a fake repo pump plate sign from a repo sign on a wall?

Is it the fact you stuck it on a pump make it all OK? You can't have it both ways. The exact way you feel with regarding to having a fake sign on a pump is the way other collectors feel about having the same sign on their wall.

There is no difference!

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#233114 - Sat Feb 12 2011 04:07 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Bud
Quote:
How can you tell the difference between your cans and the originals.

I make COPIES of high Dollar cans, I don't make High Dollar cans!
My cans are made w/ water slide decals NOT lithographed printed directly on to the can. ALL the cans I use have a Welded seam, not soldered or crimped like originals.

Throw me some more rocks! LOL

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#233121 - Sat Feb 12 2011 04:28 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
Bud Miley Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 02 2011
Loc: Greenup, IL
Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
Bud
Quote:
How can you tell the difference between your cans and the originals.

I make COPIES of high Dollar cans, I don't make High Dollar cans!
My cans are made w/ water slide decals NOT lithographed printed directly on to the can. ALL the cans I use have a Welded seam, not soldered or crimped like originals.

Throw me some more rocks! LOL


TX, more rocks. Any chance of posting seam pics.. I seriously dont know the difference. How and where are the cans dated or marked?

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#233132 - Sat Feb 12 2011 05:22 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bud Miley]
souperhigh Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 23 2006
Loc: Tulsa,Oklahoma United States ...
Now that was a good comment !!


Edited by souperhigh (Sat Feb 12 2011 05:30 PM)

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#233140 - Sat Feb 12 2011 05:56 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bud Miley]
Thunder II Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jan 20 2006
Loc: On the plains of Colorado
Originally Posted By: Bud Miley
I seriously dont know the difference. How and where are the cans dated or marked?


Water slide decals are what we put on our model airplanes, that we built as children. A DB copy, on the shelf, looks great. In your hand, it looks fake...
_________________________
Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....

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#233152 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:13 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Thunder II]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Bud, you asked a good question, you are looking for knowledge.

Maybe, instead of us going back and forth about date, etc. markings on a can, how about you can experts getting together and posting a real good, concice post about HOW TO SPOT A FAKE OR REPRO OLD OIL CAN?

After we cover that, how about doing the same for globes and signs. Putting all the information all together (then those of us who are looking for that info can copy it and file it) in one place it much better than any of the information given out above.

Since we can't stop unmarked repros, how about information on how to spot them, then a month from now when someone asks the same question, we can just refer them back to that post. If it is a good post, maybe Jim can archive it.

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#233189 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:17 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jack Sim]
DasFast1 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Oct 10 2010
Loc: Kearney, NE
Okay now I'm curious what everyone thinks about reproduction pump parts such as reset cranks, sight glasses, nozzle receivers or rests? Should they have mfg dates on those? Or is it not as important because they don't go for as much money and de-value the pump? Or does it de-value the pump?
_________________________
Life is like a video game. The more you play, the better you get!!!

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#233194 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:23 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bob Richards]
Nicole Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Dec 09 2010
Loc: Maryland
Reproductions are a big issue in the art world, and yet there are some who reproduce original works, either on pieces not under copyright or with permision (with a % of sale price going to the museum that owns the piece). All are marked, and the producers earn a reputation for quality and profit and make a good living.

I'm afraid in a downloadable world, folks just make copies for themselves with no money going to the artist/author/musician/etc.etc.etc. Think of all those kids that downloaded music for free, not thinking it was a problem. And though we know examples of filthy rich artists, authors etc, over 90 % of artist/authors etc have a very slim profit margin, and that 'free' copy of whatever takes bread from some child mouth.

When I was younger, the U.S. population was 200,000,000 and now it's 300,000,000 and for historic artifacts, there's not enough 'originals' out there.

Mike, have you even considered telling your vendors, that you would like to put your own mark on the product they want you to sell, and have a standard for where the mark is, so folks know when someone has scratched the mark out? Vendors like you could have some impact on the illegals.

Sorry, I ran on....can't seem to keep away from the deep end of the pool. Bad Nicole! Bad!

BTW Thunder II -- didn't see that thread before. Love the weasel!


Edited by Nicole (Sat Feb 12 2011 09:24 PM)

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#233198 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:57 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Nicole]
Thunder II Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jan 20 2006
Loc: On the plains of Colorado
Nicole, please feel free to call me Thunder. LOL...
_________________________
Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....

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#233229 - Sun Feb 13 2011 12:41 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jack Sim]
archer2 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Nov 25 2006
Loc: Marshall Va USA
I like Jacks idea about a data base for identifying fakes from originals.
_________________________
Ed

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#233248 - Sun Feb 13 2011 08:44 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Nicole]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Nicole,

Thanks for your post and thoughts - as I said, I'm gain to do what ever small part I can contribute to combat the sales of new signs as old. However, please keep in mind that our primary eBay business is old vintage signs, we only offer the new signs for the customers who love the era yet can't afford some of the original signs.

I guess what I'm saying is we have very little influence to force any one manufacture to change their current processes. It's no secret that guys who buy re-issue signs do not want a current date on their piece. As a matter of fact, the few signs that we do have that are dated, just sit in the store, nobody really wants a 2010 date scarring the looks of an old sign.

Maybe the best way to kick this thing off is to entice manufactures to ID the rear of the sign, this way you know who the manufacture is, if it's licensed, and you know when it was made. Of course, this move only keeps honest people honest - the guys who make up "aged" bogus signs, will continue to have no regulations.

My advise is if a Buyer is interested in a re-issue sign is they buy it from a reputable dealer. I'm not trying to be self-serving here but I do offer a 100% money back guarantee on most all our high-end re-issue sign. This way if the Buyer pops the sign and he thought it was original, he has the option to return it.

The only way we dealers can help fight the problem is when they sell the same sign the thieves do for a fraction of the cost.

Thanks

Originally Posted By: Nicole
Reproductions are a big issue in the art world, and yet there are some who reproduce original works, either on pieces not under copyright or with permision (with a % of sale price going to the museum that owns the piece). All are marked, and the producers earn a reputation for quality and profit and make a good living.

I'm afraid in a downloadable world, folks just make copies for themselves with no money going to the artist/author/musician/etc.etc.etc. Think of all those kids that downloaded music for free, not thinking it was a problem. And though we know examples of filthy rich artists, authors etc, over 90 % of artist/authors etc have a very slim profit margin, and that 'free' copy of whatever takes bread from some child mouth.

When I was younger, the U.S. population was 200,000,000 and now it's 300,000,000 and for historic artifacts, there's not enough 'originals' out there.

Mike, have you even considered telling your vendors, that you would like to put your own mark on the product they want you to sell, and have a standard for where the mark is, so folks know when someone has scratched the mark out? Vendors like you could have some impact on the illegals.

Sorry, I ran on....can't seem to keep away from the deep end of the pool. Bad Nicole! Bad!

BTW Thunder II -- didn't see that thread before. Love the weasel!

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#233266 - Sun Feb 13 2011 09:47 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Originally Posted By: Mikemas


I guess what I'm saying is we have very little influence to force any one manufacture to change their current processes. It's no secret that guys who buy re-issue signs do not want a current date on their piece. As a matter of fact, the few signs that we do have that are dated, just sit in the store, nobody really wants a 2010 date scarring the looks of an old sign.



Pretty simple... they don't like the date on a reproduction than but an original! Original won't have a 2010 date!


Edited by Jarvis (Sun Feb 13 2011 09:48 AM)
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#233274 - Sun Feb 13 2011 10:38 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Loyd Pierce]
Mike618b Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Dec 04 2003
Loc: Grand Rapids Mi
Originally Posted By: Loyd Pierce
Sure make it easy on the newbie. At this point. I'm scared to buy anything,thats not rusty,broke,or looks like it's been ran over two or three times by a truck. All though I realize theres a thing called Rapid Aging. Yes I know where Bob stands, seen the other side of you last night with the repo sign topic, still you was politely blunt.


That's not always a safe bet either. I was a a show once and a guy was selling all these pump plates. He told me they were all originals. They were beat up, dirty and rusty. Far from perfect, but still cool. He had allot of them, so I got suspicious and started checking them over closely. I noticed all the bottom right corners were broken off, except for one sign. On this one sign that the guy had missed, the corner said GPH 2003. The guy was buying repos in bulk, damaging them, letting them rust up, adding patina with an airbrush and passing them off as originals.

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#233277 - Sun Feb 13 2011 10:45 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mike618b]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
not to sound like a broken record, But that is why repops are BAD, dated or not. Someone said it best yesterday;
If you can't afford an original BOO HOO, that is what collecting is all about, longing for that elusive rare piece.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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