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Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jarvis] #233278
Sun Feb 13 2011 09:51 AM
Sun Feb 13 2011 09:51 AM
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Posts: 5,053
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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...regarding repro decals:

...the only repro thing I would use on a pump restoration (other than a part I couldn't find an original of) would be a decal, and I wouldn't want a date on it, I would want it to look exactly like the original...I don't have a problem with that, as I don't see the decals as being collectible in and of themselves, once they've been USED...I suppose the unused ones are collectible, but potential fraud in that situation could be easily prevented by printing REPRODUCTION and a date on the backing paper of the new ones...

...say you restored two pumps exactly the same - except you used original decals on one and exact copies of the decal on the other...is one pump worth more than the other?...I'd say it would be negligible, because the decals are like the paint itself - once applied, you can't remove them, and they're not collectible any more...

...does that make me a hypocrite? maybe to a few, but I don't think so...I probably wouldn't use original decals even if I had them, as they most likely wouldn't work due to age, and there's no going back once you've soaked the decal and tried to apply it...

...but, back to the main thrust of this topic: when it comes to signs, globes, cans, maps, blotters, etc., they absolutely should be marked...and for someone to complain that dating the stuff makes it harder to sell, well...you're in the wrong business...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican] #233282
Sun Feb 13 2011 10:11 AM
Sun Feb 13 2011 10:11 AM
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Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
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New Mexico
I think Jack's idea of forming a "pool of knowledge" so to speak is a good one but would be really hard to accomplish.

I thought about it in terms of what I might be able to contribute and came to the conclusion that I can't even always settle in on why I think something is a pop.The are just too many factors going into my decision,and what i am looking at changes from item to itemIt is usually a combination of things that make something just "not look right"to me.

It's just that it would be really hard for me to put down in writing years of experience when I can't even figure it out myself.And,on top of that,I've made mistakes looking at something I had in my hand!!LOL.

Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Old Iron] #233284
Sun Feb 13 2011 10:28 AM
Sun Feb 13 2011 10:28 AM
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Posts: 712
Norman, OK
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I hope topics like this inform some newly-minted collectors.

I believe that a true collection should have NO repro/fantasy signs. As Butch Greer has said on this site, "we're collectors not decorators".

I understand you may have a void to fill, or may be able to buy repros on the cheap. But they drag a collection down.

And if no one bought these things, the market would dry up. Not gonna happen but just make the choice IMO


There's no stopping the Cretins from hopping
You've got to keep it beating for the hopping Cretins
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas] #233287
Sun Feb 13 2011 10:44 AM
Sun Feb 13 2011 10:44 AM
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Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mikemas

I guess what I'm saying is we have very little influence to force any one manufacture to change their current processes. It's no secret that guys who buy re-issue signs do not want a current date on their piece. As a matter of fact, the few signs that we do have that are dated, just sit in the store, nobody really wants a 2010 date scarring the looks of an old sign.


Mike, nobody is asking you to change the world. It starts with sellers such as yourself. Are you personally motivated enough by what you've read that you will discontinue the practice of selling unmarked repops?

If not, you are no different than anybody else looking to make a fast buck off an unmarked repop. And..by reading your comments you have your rationalizations and justifications firmly in place.

Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Ohio Oil] #233312
Sun Feb 13 2011 11:46 AM
Sun Feb 13 2011 11:46 AM
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Posts: 6,272
Longview, WA
Bob Richards Offline
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Last I checked each person's collection is THEIRS. They don't collect to please anyone else, but themselves. As such they answer only to themselves as to what they collect. You don't like it, so what!

If you don't like that someone collects repop/fantasy items, so be it. YOU DO NOT have the power, nor the experiences to judge anyone else's collection(s)..... None of us do.

Last time I checked we don't have a "Collection Police Force". A group who decides what should and should not be in a collection. To those making judgments about others collections, even if we did have such a group, what makes you think you would be in it?

Anyone should, can and will collect the items they want. It should be that way here, without someone else passing judgment on their collecting. Since when do any of us have the power, experience and/or knowledge to condemn someone else's collection?

Collecting is about experiences. It has nothing to do with money nor whomever has the most items or the most expensive items. Any newcomer with money can possibly buy the biggest and most expensive collection(s).

Experiences are different for each individual collector. For some it is working at stations in the 40s,50s,60s,70s..... up to now.
For others it is having a family member or friend who owned/worked at, a station whether they were alive when the station was open or not. For others it is places they worked at adults or owned as adults. For some it is memories, they didn't work at a station. Didn't know anyone who owned or worked at one. Just remembering an important bit of history, important to them.

Globes, pumps, signs, cans etc. are just physical reminders of different eras that have past. Memories, snapshots, stories these are what this hobby was all about when it started.

Last I checked none of us here were one of those first collectors. I maybe wrong, if you were one of those first collectors in the early 50s. Please contact me, as you may have known my father.

Even back in the 50's, that small group of collectors wanted repop and fantasy items marked... or atleast that is what my dad always told me.


Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bob Richards] #233316
Sun Feb 13 2011 11:58 AM
Sun Feb 13 2011 11:58 AM
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Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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Bob you lost me after a couple lines, But what a few are saying is a Collector of OLD Gas Station memorabilia IS NOT THE SAME as someone who decorates with Repops.
It would be the same as a True baseball card collector, or someone who has photocopies of baseball cards and calls himself a baseball card collector.
They both collect, one is a Real collector, The other just decorates


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: KZ1000] #233318
Sun Feb 13 2011 12:09 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 12:09 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 44
Roanoke Va
Mikemas Offline
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Roanoke Va
Originally Posted By: KZ1000
not to sound like a broken record, But that is why repops are BAD, dated or not. Someone said it best yesterday;
If you can't afford an original BOO HOO, that is what collecting is all about, longing for that elusive rare piece.


So your saying if your not wealthy then you can't enjoy the hobby? These are tough times today!

Last edited by Mikemas; Sun Feb 13 2011 12:11 PM.
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas] #233321
Sun Feb 13 2011 12:16 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 12:16 PM
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Mass
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Mass
A babe Ruth baseball card is rare, Would I want a photocopy of one, Absolutely NOT; Can I afford an original, Absolutely NOT; Do I envy the ones who have one, YES. And I still would not want anything but the real deal no matter what the hobby.
An Antique Collector is one who amasses original items, ones they can afford, they too don't want a fake piece.

You Sir, are what destroys most every collectible hobby there ever was.


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: KZ1000] #233325
Sun Feb 13 2011 12:30 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 12:30 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 44
Roanoke Va
Mikemas Offline
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Roanoke Va
Originally Posted By: KZ1000
A babe Ruth baseball card is rare, Would I want a photocopy of one, Absolutely NOT; Can I afford an original, Absolutely NOT; Do I envy the ones who have one, YES. And I still would not want anything but the real deal no matter what the hobby.
An Antique Collector is one who amasses original items, ones they can afford, they too don't want a fake piece.

You Sir, are what destroys most every collectible hobby there ever was.


You need to quit talking for "All" the forum members here, I would bet that over 50% of the members have some type of repo in their collection or would like to include one. It's just a handful of you guys who just can't accept the fact that nothing stays the same!

You guys remind me of the old bearded "Harley Riders" (almost gone now) that refuse to realize that you can ride a bike that dose not drop bolts on the highway or have to sling oil all over other riders!

Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas] #233329
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:03 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:03 PM
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Watchdog7 Offline
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KEEP IT CIVIL

Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas] #233332
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:10 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:10 PM
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Saline, Mi USA
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blacktee Offline
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Saline, Mi USA
[quote=Mikemas]Nicole,

Thanks for your post and thoughts - as I said, I'm gain to do what ever small part I can contribute to combat the sales of new signs as old. However, please keep in mind that our primary eBay business is old vintage signs, we only offer the new signs for the customers who love the era yet can't afford some of the original signs.

Mike Mas

What have you done about your TEXACO AIRCRAFT SIGN AUCTION ? NOTHING !!!

KZ1000 was making his own comments, where do you get off stating he's speaking for "all" members ?

Change your habits, maybe then you might get some respect !!!

Doug


Last edited by blacktee; Sun Feb 13 2011 01:37 PM.
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: blacktee] #233337
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:57 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:57 PM
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Posts: 7,264
St. Louis, MO, USA
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Jack Sim Offline
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Who, time to move on. Everybody trying to change the minds of others and no one offering any information on how to determine a repro from an original.

How about an explanation of the seams on a oil can? How about a list of the oil cans that you know have been reproduced? How about, how about........

Since we can't stop what is being done, maybe we can help our members from buying something that is a fake.

Jack Sim


Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.
Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas] #233338
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:58 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 01:58 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,999
Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mikemas
You need to quit talking for "All" the forum members here, I would bet that over 50% of the members have some type of repo in their collection or would like to include one. It's just a handful of you guys who just can't accept the fact that nothing stays the same!


You very cleverly twist words and redirect the argument. Most here do not object to repops, we understand that they have a place in the collecting world. Our issue is with unmarked repops

So my earlier question still stands. Are you motivated by what you have read to discontinue the practice of selling unmarked repops?

Doesn't matter if you are a sign maker, wholesaler, or vendor of such items...all are equally dirty.

Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Ohio Oil] #233346
Sun Feb 13 2011 02:47 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 02:47 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 44
Roanoke Va
Mikemas Offline
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Mikemas  Offline
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Roanoke Va
Ohio Oil,

You're talking in total riddles - please answer me why in the world I would stop selling signs that hundreds of other vendors on Ebay are selling with no problem!

Read my Lips - All our signs are clearly marked "Old Style" for modern signs and "Vintage" for original signs. In over a thousand feedbacks there is not one complaint - so you need to move on to a valid subject!

You need to preach to the manufactures not the retailers. I can't change the way all signs are made no more than you or your handful of repo haters who refuse to open their mind to collecting of today.

You need to just accept that things are different and also accept the fact there are more guys collecting new signs then old ones. Not every guy wants to spend $2,000 on a rusted hulk of metal with bullet holes and so many chips you can tell what the sign says!

People really can think for themselves!

Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican] #233349
Sun Feb 13 2011 02:51 PM
Sun Feb 13 2011 02:51 PM
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Posts: 458
Round Rock, Texas
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bppierce Offline
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Round Rock, Texas
I'm with DIESEL

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