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#232965 - Fri Feb 11 2011 11:32 PM Question...mark or unmarked?
texaspelican Offline
Showcase Feature Host

Registered: Fri Jan 13 2006
Loc: 7 miles from Texas in Louisian...
Lets take a poll.
should reproductions be marked or unmarked?
please vote and leave a comment.
marked or unmarked reproductions
Only one choice allowed (96 total votes)
reproductions should be marked - 90 (94%)
reprductions should be unmarked - 2 (02%)
don't matter - 4 (04%)
Voting on this poll ends: 0 seconds ago


Edited by texaspelican (Fri Feb 11 2011 11:35 PM)
_________________________
Paddy
Wanted. Billups, Ride with Rose, Har-V, LORECO, STANOCOLA, Pan Am (early), Hurricane, Evangeline, Canal, Gulf Coast, oil companies.

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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#232966 - Fri Feb 11 2011 11:37 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
texaspelican Offline
Showcase Feature Host

Registered: Fri Jan 13 2006
Loc: 7 miles from Texas in Louisian...
all reproductions should be marked!
_________________________
Paddy
Wanted. Billups, Ride with Rose, Har-V, LORECO, STANOCOLA, Pan Am (early), Hurricane, Evangeline, Canal, Gulf Coast, oil companies.

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#232968 - Fri Feb 11 2011 11:40 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
AllenBrown82 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Sep 06 2010
Loc: Grenada, Ms
i agree, it would definately make my job a lot easier and i wouldn't have to bug Paddy so much....lol

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#232969 - Fri Feb 11 2011 11:42 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: AllenBrown82]
texaspelican Offline
Showcase Feature Host

Registered: Fri Jan 13 2006
Loc: 7 miles from Texas in Louisian...
Allen, you are never a bother my young friend.
_________________________
Paddy
Wanted. Billups, Ride with Rose, Har-V, LORECO, STANOCOLA, Pan Am (early), Hurricane, Evangeline, Canal, Gulf Coast, oil companies.

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#232972 - Fri Feb 11 2011 11:44 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
ALL REPOP & FANTASY items should be marked in a Permanent manner. Double sided should be marked on Both sides.
That way when someone is trying to Deceive the buyer, they will all be chipped to remove the Date in the same area.
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#232974 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:00 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
I think everyone knows where I stand... Mark every repop and fantasy item!

The only way values in this hobby will survive and hopefully grow is to ensure repop and fantasy items are marked. Every collector works hard to ensure their collection(s) are as complete and valuable as possible.

Some (most) collectors don't have a lot of extra disposable income, so they save for a period of time to be able to afford an item. An unmarked repop can hurt or destroy the hard earned value of that item.
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#232977 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:13 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
Loyd Pierce Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2011
Loc: Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
Sure make it easy on the newbie. At this point. I'm scared to buy anything,thats not rusty,broke,or looks like it's been ran over two or three times by a truck. All though I realize theres a thing called Rapid Aging. Yes I know where Bob stands, seen the other side of you last night with the repo sign topic, still you was politely blunt.


Edited by Loyd Pierce (Sat Feb 12 2011 12:20 AM)
_________________________
*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*

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#232978 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:19 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Loyd Pierce]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Loyd, that is why we try to help new collectors and experienced collectors alike.

A big problem is, one needs to ask about an item before it is purchased. Too often the question of originality is raised after the item is purchased, then it is sometimes/often-times too late to help.
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#232981 - Sat Feb 12 2011 01:03 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bob Richards]
Loyd Pierce Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2011
Loc: Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
. Learned yesterday how to tell real sign pole.Look for plate on pole. I was looking for stamp on in side of base. Got to get humble enough to ask. Allways some one willing to help, reason I keep coming back. THANKS
_________________________
*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*

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#232982 - Sat Feb 12 2011 01:31 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Loyd Pierce]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Guess the 1 that voted for NO Date, stands to make $$$ of of REPOP items!

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#232988 - Sat Feb 12 2011 04:06 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
JOSBORN Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Apr 25 2008
Loc: Plainfield Il. US
MARKED!!!!!!!!!

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#232989 - Sat Feb 12 2011 06:12 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: JOSBORN]
Nicole Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Dec 09 2010
Loc: Maryland
Marked, but not only to distinguish from originals...if it's a nice piece of work, what better publicity for getting commissions to reproduce hard to find pieces. I am guessing correctly identified reproductions and fantasy pieces have their place in the market or is this wrong? Do marked reproductions also diminish the value of the rare pieces?


Edited by Nicole (Sat Feb 12 2011 07:07 AM)

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#232994 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:00 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
Gary Drye Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Oct 13 2000
Loc: Clarksville, Tn. USA
I have been a member on this site since its infancy and original vs repo has been discussed so many times I can't count them. One question has never been clearly answered IMO, except for the affordability issue. Why would anyone even want a repo/fantasy item?

I fully understand the necessity for repo globes and the 12 inch signage for restoring a pump. Bought many myself when I used to restore pumps. A guy wanting a Polly pump is not going to pay for an original globe and decals...if they could even be found. So I have no problem with this segment of the hobby.

Now the unmarked or even marked larger signs, die cut versions and flange signs, globes, fake oil cans...these I do NOT understand why anyone would want one for their collection. "originals are too expensive". Well, so what? I don't have deep pockets and there are thousands of items I will never own because of cost. But you know what? I will never own them and I appreciate what I do have and can afford. I will not defile my collection by putting fake items into it.

I visited a collection once and commented on a couple of rare (and expensive) signs the guy had. I was very impressed until he told me they were repos. My opinion of the collection went from a #10 to a #1 regardless of what other items he had. I also lost all respect for him as a collector.

If someone can explain why a fake is desirable, please do as I have wondered this for years and just don't get it.

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#232996 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:07 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Gary Drye]
THE AMERICAN GARAGE Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Jun 02 2004
Loc: PECONIC BAY, L.I., NY, USA
UNMARKED = TAKING SOMEBODY'S WALLET FOR A RIDE!

ALL REPRODUCTIONS SHOULD BE DATED SOMEHOW....EVEN IF IT'S PHOTOCOPYING AN OLD ADVERTISEMENT FROM A MAGAZINE.
_________________________
DOC @ THE AMERICAN GARAGE

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#233001 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:58 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: THE AMERICAN GARAGE]
Stu K. Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Jan 07 2011
Loc: Western, IA
I agree with comments here. All should have markings. It seems there has been a dramatic increase in the variety of repops. I am still learning, some of these are obvious. The others.........If it looks suspicious, I steer clear. I can only see it getting more difficult in the future to improve my collection.

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#233004 - Sat Feb 12 2011 08:15 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
s932 Offline
Company of the Month Host

Registered: Thu Jan 18 2007
Loc: cape girardeau. mo
If it's not marked then I take it as someone is trying to make a quick buck by decite.
_________________________
Originals only for me. Always looking for Simpson oil, Super A, and MFA oil cans and globes.
Shawn Morris

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#233005 - Sat Feb 12 2011 08:20 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: s932]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
I really don't need to post because everyone knows my opinion on reproduction stuff.
I am 100% with Gary on this one! Reproduction items have there place and should be marked!

Someone most likely clicked unmarked to ruff feathers.
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#233006 - Sat Feb 12 2011 08:22 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: s932]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
ALL Reproductions larger than 12" round should be Folded in half and dumped at the scrap metal yards, They are worth more as scrap.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#233009 - Sat Feb 12 2011 08:27 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jarvis]
gasoildude Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Nov 29 2004
Loc: Oneida IL USA
Originally Posted By: Jarvis
I really don't need to post because everyone knows my opinion on reproduction stuff.
I am 100% with Gary on this one! Reproduction items have there place and should be marked!

Someone most likely clicked unmarked to ruff feathers.


Bingo!!
_________________________
Wanted Owens Motor Oil & Mobiloil Gargoyle.
Brad Ralston & my website is
www.petrobarn.com

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#233010 - Sat Feb 12 2011 08:27 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Stu K.]
Fueluser Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Jun 07 2002
Loc: Schenectady, New York USA
I do not know if this is spilling over from the other channel but I wish you was more specific in your poll. Are we talking about globes, signs and cans then yes by all means they should be marked. If we are talking about pump parts perhaps casting in the date would be of benefit (not raised but stamped so that there would be a low area if ground out). Something that would be identifiable but discrete enough to be considered just a casting number. Or they could be stamped with a generic coded word - that could be agreed upon by the major reproduction industry leaders which could be deciphered into numbers as was done by Gulf on their products after 1950 - the use of the word SPECIALTYO. Yes I know getting everyone to by into this will not happen if they are dishonest. Just as filling in this area with bondo to cover the stamping or grinding down the embossing. Being discrete is the key word. Just my thoughts. John

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#233016 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:08 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Stu K.]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
If every respectable sign company put their names and dates on signs - then only the thieves who "age" signs would have full reign to sell their signs as originals. You guys don't think for a minute a guy who produces a sign to pass off as an old sign is going to date it do you?

Bottom line - it's not a problem - Sellers like Miles and VC signs, us, and others have sold reproduction signs with no problem for years. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with a guy buying a beautiful sign from the past at an affordable price. Not everyone can afford to spend six grand on a Clipper gas sign.

Regards

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#233019 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:22 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
bustermonty Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri May 06 2005
Loc: Indianapolis IN USA
So if we outlaw unmarked signs only outlaws will sell them? Mike this is a HUGE problem. I have been to many small time auctions and have seen people taken to the cleaners with unmarked repop or fantasy signs. Your products and others like them have a place in the market. Why is it so hard to put a date on what you sell? You may not be deceiving people intentionally but it is happening. Why don't you and the others do something about it and mark them. You are sticking your head in the sand and refusing to admit there is a problem. I guess that's the first step, admitting there is a problem. Once that is done, do something about it.

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#233020 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:26 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: bustermonty]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
Similar to talking to a wall
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#233023 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:45 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Tokheim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Feb 19 2003
Loc: NW PA
Yes imo repop signs, globes, cans and ad glass should be dated.

Just so I'm clear does this also mean every can that has new lids put in it needs to have RE-LIDDED ON XX-XX-XXXX stamped into the top and/or bottom? Especially if it was filled with oil during the lidding process...is this done to deceive a future buyer into thinking it is a more valuable NOS can?

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#233026 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:55 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 10 2009
Loc: New Mexico
I think I have made my thoughts on un-marked reproductions well known.At least it has been a long time since I had to PM Ryan to see if I had "crossed the line"with my comments LOL.I'll be good.

I very strongly object to un-marked repops because they place a restriction on what is available for me to collect.I won't go any further than that.

I'm with Gary and JJ on marked globes and pump plates.I have used them in the past and will do so in the future on outdoor pumps.

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#233029 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:00 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Nicole]
Thunder II Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jan 20 2006
Loc: On the plains of Colorado
Originally Posted By: Nicole
Do marked reproductions also diminish the value of the rare pieces?


This will ruffle some feathers, but those who are offended by this, are the ones who lack ethics & integrity. So here goes!

Nicole the answer to your question has numerous facets, please allow me to answer to one of those. In my travels I have found two different examples of an easily reproduced decal. To the best of my knowledge, at this point in time, they are the only known examples in existance. One was traded off to another collector who wanted to reproduce it. The deal was made, the decal was reproduced, globes were made, the stuff was marketed & sold. NONE of it was marked as a reproduction or fantasy... Lets pause here, and go to a fantasy scenario. Check out this link, and please read how I found these little jewels...

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=141429#Post141429

Now, lets just change that story a bit, to...... I walked into an old warehouse in Denver, and I found a box of old pump plates. Wrapped in paper, they are HIGHLY desirable amongst collectors. Obviously N.O.S. they are worth a FORTUNE!!!! Offer them on e-bay, then list them here. WOW! The first pair sold for $365.00.... The 20 pairs that I "Found" brought over $1500.00!!! BTW, the definition of Found is: I made up a bunch of plates, installed the $12.00 decals, wrapped them in paper, then tossed them in a stack, and dropped a bit of dirt & dust on them.... Cost of decals $240.00. Cost of plates $240.00. Profit. In excess of $1000.00. Who can tell the difference between the original and a fake? Only myself and the new owner of the original. This is called Lying, Cheating, and Stealing. It happens all the time.

So the question is: How would you feel, if you spent $200.00 of your hard earned dollars, on what you thought was an original? I mean, it wasnt marked...

Lets change that up a bit to... I found these decals, and I'll be reproducing these for those of you who are interested. They will be exact copies of the original, though they will be dated and marked as reproductions. Of course, the picture Pirates will steal the images, reproduce a bunch of copies, and sell them for their own profit. But thats a story for another time. Which is exactly why, I dont allow photographs of some of my stuff.

BTW, I'm certain that the person who now owns the original, had no intentions of deceiving anybody, and this isnt to question his integrity. In fact, a lot of collectors now have a piece of history in their collection. Not true history, but at least an accurate representation of it.

And yes, not only are the Weasel Oil cans dated, but they even come with a certificate of Non-authenticity...
_________________________
Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....

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#233032 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:03 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Tokheim]
Tomstoybox Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Jan 06 2009
Loc: Center Point, IA
Marked!!!! Im with Gary on this. It would save alot of ill feelings in the hobby on buying stuff that's original. There is a place in the hobby for repo/fantasy stuff though. I have a repo Polly globe on a pump. If I had a original for it I would give the repo the boot. No dates will make it worse in the future as the next generation inherits collectables and when they go to sell them. My dad has had this sign for 30 years so it must be original..........Just my 2 cents. Chad
_________________________
Looking for Tydol-Veedol-Flying A items, especially globes.

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#233034 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:26 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Tomstoybox]
K W FRITH Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
MARKED--A lot of fantasy signs and repops are 30 years old by now and they are becoming a big problem because they actually look like an old sign! The new or novice collector hasn't the knowledge or resources to make a quick decision on purchasing the sign he just found, and in the end, he gets burned for some serious cash! MARK EVERYTHING!
_________________________
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133

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#233036 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:35 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Tomstoybox]
Gaspedler Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Feb 04 2001
Loc: Lebanon, Indiana. USA
I realize the question is "Marked" or "UnMarked".
The problem I see everyone avoiding is, a lot of this stuff is being done in VIOLATION of TRADEMARK protection laws; and Illegal production of items, without proper authorization of the Trademark owners.
Putting a date on it, does not make it legal to produce it.
Chuck

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#233037 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:40 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: K W FRITH]
souperhigh Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 23 2006
Loc: Tulsa,Oklahoma United States ...
While there is a need for fantasy and reproduction items in the hobby they ALL should be dated and marked.
I know there are lens makers that do not date them and tried to flood the marker with cheap but sometimes good lens. I buy globes, cans and signs and some times pay alot for them. I usually do not show them as they will soon end up on a button, magnet or another piece of glass.
I posted a comment on the other channel saying that Jim Treadway who makes some great stuff does date his lens and my comment was quickly deleted. Just like the press in a communist country.
All because that site promotes unmarked and undated globes.
I lost alot of the respect I had for that site and have now walked away from it.
I , along with most of you have a lot of money and time in our collections and to have some one to reproduce the items and devalue what we have is just WRONG.

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#233038 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:45 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: K W FRITH]
Gary Drye Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Oct 13 2000
Loc: Clarksville, Tn. USA
Tolkheim, that's a good idea about marking relidded cans. I won't buy a relidded can no matter how much I want the can. Do I have any? Yes, but they were bought many years ago before I even knew you could fill and relid a can.

That is also a good idea about marking pump parts although convincing the producers probably won't happen. I don't see pump parts as big a concern as signs, cans, etc. Pumps are like collectible cars and need the sum of their parts to be whole. By being able to complete a pump, a piece of history is preserved. And I'm talking about parts for an ORIGINAL pump...NOT these repo POS pumps being made nowadays. I place these fake pumps in the same category as the fake larger signs and cans.

Repo'ed pump parts bring the pumps back from the dead. What does a repo'ed sign or can do. Does it complete anything? Is it needed to make something else original or functional? I don't think so. They are there because "I can't afford a real one". Well, boo hoo...and welcome to the world of collecting.

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#233039 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:49 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: souperhigh]
oillease55 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Jul 06 2002
Loc: greenville,ohio
I think all''''''''''''''never mind I don't want to cause this thread to end early ;;;;;;;;;Ron

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#233041 - Sat Feb 12 2011 10:55 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Tokheim]
DIESEL Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Nov 24 2009
Loc: TEXAS
IS THIS A JOKE? I THOUGHT THIS WAS A HAND'S DOWN "NO BRAINIER WITH THIS COMMUNITY? HOW ON EARTH DID THIS COME UP FOR A POLL? NOTHING AGAINST YOU PADDY BUT.........................????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? SHOULD THEY BE DATED?????????????????????????????????????????????COME ON .....SERIOUSLY! I HOPE BRUCEY BRUCE H. IS READING THIS THREAD & CHIME'S IN ON FAKE SIGNS, HE RIPPED ME OFF ON A FAKE HUMBLE SIGN HERE RECENTLY! I THINK THEY ALL SHOULD BE CRIMINALLY PURSUED!
_________________________
CHRIS
BUYING ANYTHING EARLY HUMBLE OIL CO.
BUY SELL TRADE ORIGINAL GAS PUMP PARTS

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#233043 - Sat Feb 12 2011 11:28 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: DIESEL]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Chris, the poll is partly because Mikemas expressed these comments in a reply to me;

Originally Posted By: Mikemas
Bob,

I don't have any idea what you're getting at - to make one blanket statement that just because you don't like reproduction signs, that no one else on this forum has the right to like them is unfair and self-serving.

Quick question - does your broad statement pertain to reproductions cover Pump globes and pump accessories as well?



I told him he should take a poll and see if my reply was just my own or if it is the general consensus of the membership.

My post pertained to the unmarked repops and fantasy items, he and others sell.
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#233045 - Sat Feb 12 2011 11:36 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Tokheim]
Bud Miley Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 02 2011
Loc: Greenup, IL
Lone wolf I guess, as marking anything, Gas Globes etc really doesnt matter much either way I see. Any repo especially if it is exact or a perfect copy like T-Ways globes(no offense) will kill the interest of some people looking to buy an original. Most will settle for a repo marked or not to put on their pump vs. nothing at all.
Perfect Example: 1950s Double Bubble Glass clocks, pedal cars, serving trays and ice chest coolers took a dive after all the China repops came over. They are marked and dated but take away from the interest and pricing of the original ones...especially the common ones. A good reproduction Gas Globe with or without a date is no different. Dont get me wrong, New repop Gas Globes really top off a restored pump but what about someone holding the original globe hoping to sell it to the same person needing one for his pump. Its all about money.

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#233046 - Sat Feb 12 2011 11:41 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bob Richards]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
W/O a makers mark/Date, how will the New collectors know they are collecting REPOP signs of the past & not original signs form the 20th Century?
_________________________
Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#233049 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:03 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
texaspelican Offline
Showcase Feature Host

Registered: Fri Jan 13 2006
Loc: 7 miles from Texas in Louisian...
Originally Posted By: Mikemas
If every respectable sign company put their names and dates on signs - then only the thieves who "age" signs would have full reign to sell their signs as originals. You guys don't think for a minute a guy who produces a sign to pass off as an old sign is going to date it do you?

Bottom line - it's not a problem - Sellers like Miles and VC signs, us, and others have sold reproduction signs with no problem for years. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with a guy buying a beautiful sign from the past at an affordable price. Not everyone can afford to spend six grand on a Clipper gas sign.

Regards


So since others are doing it, you feel that you need to get some of that action?
Sellers like Miles? So what your saying is that Miles is involved? What is this relationship? If Miles (and I will ask him the next time I see him) is he moving unmarked reproductions and trying to deceive collectors? If that is true, then I would lose all respect for him.
As for you Mikemas...You have already proven that you don't deserve my trust or respect. quote from mikemas "If every respectable sign company put their names and dates on signs - then only the thieves who "age" signs would have full reign to sell their signs as originals. You guys don't think for a minute a guy who produces a sign to pass off as an old sign is going to date it do you?"
those would be dishonest guys.
there are reproduction sign companies that are dating or marking their stuff.


nuff said.


Edited by texaspelican (Sat Feb 12 2011 12:09 PM)
_________________________
Paddy
Wanted. Billups, Ride with Rose, Har-V, LORECO, STANOCOLA, Pan Am (early), Hurricane, Evangeline, Canal, Gulf Coast, oil companies.

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#233051 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:16 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Stu K.]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I voted marked, but there is something everyone is missing. What if someone casts a reproduction of a door for the Fry Mae West pump, should this be marked? How about the small porcelain sign that says FRY that attaches to the pipe near the cylinder, should it be marked. If I reproduce a light kit for the ECO air meters, should it be marked?

I have a late 1920s magazine showing old furniture and in it are ads for reproduction pieces, repros of items that were originally made in the late 1800s. I wonder were these marked, and that 1800s chair you wife just bought, was it real or was it a repro?

If anyone expects the reproducers to mark their items, lives in a dream world.

Knowledge, knowledge, knowledge.

My assumption is that by now all of you have a lap top computer. Why not start by copying my gas pump book into the computer, put it in files so that you can easily find the pump or pages you want. Then copy my air meter book, than the globe books, sign books, salt & pepper book, handy oiler books, etc. As long as you are not selling this info or distributing it, it is not against copyrights. It is for your personal use. Then start copying into certain files every question posted here about wether or not an item is a repro or not. Copy articles from the petro mags, put them in files. Now you only have to have one thing on the seat of your truck when you go to that farm sale, auction, swapmeet.
Buy the books, copy them, then sell the book to someone else. Why buy something then two days later ask the guys here if it is a repro or not, or what is it worth.
I just bought a Kindle, and if I read the instructions correctly, you can download files into it, if this is true, all you will need is this small thing you can put in your pocket. You can buy a Kindle for reference and another one for the books you read.
Why try and keep all this info in your head, when you can keep it in your pocket.

Jack Sim



Edited by Jack Sim (Sat Feb 12 2011 12:21 PM)
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#233053 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:20 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jack Sim]
texaspelican Offline
Showcase Feature Host

Registered: Fri Jan 13 2006
Loc: 7 miles from Texas in Louisian...
Jack my fault..I sould have titled it as reproduction, signs, globes, and cans.
_________________________
Paddy
Wanted. Billups, Ride with Rose, Har-V, LORECO, STANOCOLA, Pan Am (early), Hurricane, Evangeline, Canal, Gulf Coast, oil companies.

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#233055 - Sat Feb 12 2011 12:23 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: DIESEL]
texaspelican Offline
Showcase Feature Host

Registered: Fri Jan 13 2006
Loc: 7 miles from Texas in Louisian...
Originally Posted By: DIESEL
IS THIS A JOKE? I THOUGHT THIS WAS A HAND'S DOWN "NO BRAINIER WITH THIS COMMUNITY? HOW ON EARTH DID THIS COME UP FOR A POLL? NOTHING AGAINST YOU PADDY BUT.........................????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? SHOULD THEY BE DATED?????????????????????????????????????????????COME ON .....SERIOUSLY! I HOPE BRUCEY BRUCE H. IS READING THIS THREAD & CHIME'S IN ON FAKE SIGNS, HE RIPPED ME OFF ON A FAKE HUMBLE SIGN HERE RECENTLY! I THINK THEY ALL SHOULD BE CRIMINALLY PURSUED!


Chris, this is what rekindled this debate all over again.

first one

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=230641&page=1

then a second one.

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=233025&page=1

he called our hand.
_________________________
Paddy
Wanted. Billups, Ride with Rose, Har-V, LORECO, STANOCOLA, Pan Am (early), Hurricane, Evangeline, Canal, Gulf Coast, oil companies.

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#233062 - Sat Feb 12 2011 01:15 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Even the U.S. Government can't stop the Forgery/Counterfeiting of U.S. Dollars. So all we can do is hope.

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#233082 - Sat Feb 12 2011 02:01 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Stu K.]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
I would just like to make the statement that I agree with you guys there are far too many transactions on Ebay and in auctions to where these guys are getting away with stealing. Let me also say, I have no problem selling reproduction signs with dates or ID either if it would help resolve the problem, but I really don’t see it happening.

To just make a blanket statement that all repo’s should be banished from the face of the earth is not going to work. I did a quick search on eBay for “reproduction Signs” and came back with 773 results. Repo’s are big business, just because a handful of guys are taking advantage of repo’s to make a quick buck, does not make every company who sells them a bad guy. This sort of falls in the “Hand Gun” topic - to where if we take all the hand guns from all the honest people then only thieves and crooks would have hand guns, or in our case, bogus repo’s.

While I know a lot of die-hards will disagree – but there is nothing wrong with owning a reproduction of a sign from the past. Not everyone especially in today’s economy can afford to own an original sign, so why can’t a guy have an opportunity to own some of the great signs from the past and admire it and share this era with his friends?

Thanks – Mike

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#233090 - Sat Feb 12 2011 02:30 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
WE don't care that REPOP's are being made. WE would like to see ALL REPOP's MARKED/DATED in a permanent manner.

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#233095 - Sat Feb 12 2011 02:41 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
grabber Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Jun 26 2007
Loc: Lynn, NC USA
All repops should be marked somewhere...after you've been collecting for a while you can generally "tell" whats real and whats not (most of the time)...cheats will always chip off a date or "burn" signs to rip people off though...There's a few clowns I always see at the larger antique shows...every one of their signs look like they've been through fire...been burried...dinged up a with a hammer...yada yada yada...if you've been to carlisle or hershey you've likey seen their stuff...
_________________________
Wanted: Husky Cans/Signs, Interesting Pump Plates and NC Road Signage


Website www.petrojoe.com

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#233096 - Sat Feb 12 2011 02:46 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: grabber]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Can you imagine, buying an item from Mikemas? And then having a problem with it?

The way he dances here, never answering direct questions about the repops he sells. Imagine how much help one would get to solve any problems.
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#233110 - Sat Feb 12 2011 03:32 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
Bud Miley Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 02 2011
Loc: Greenup, IL
Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
WE don't care that REPOP's are being made. WE would like to see ALL REPOP's MARKED/DATED in a permanent manner.


Dick, That is a very broad We Don’t Care statement I think.. Let me ask you, You make and sell high dollar oil cans, and whats going to happen when your cans show up with scratched off dates .. spot rusted etc in the market? It will happen if not already. Do you emboss stamp the metal with the date or just print it? Are your cans permanent marked? How can you tell the difference between your cans and the originals...Curious. Thanks

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#233112 - Sat Feb 12 2011 03:45 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Gary Drye]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Originally Posted By: Gary Drye
I have been a member on this site since its infancy and original vs repo has been discussed so many times I can't count them. One question has never been clearly answered IMO, except for the affordability issue. Why would anyone even want a repo/fantasy item?

I fully understand the necessity for repo globes and the 12 inch signage for restoring a pump. Bought many myself when I used to restore pumps. A guy wanting a Polly pump is not going to pay for an original globe and decals...if they could even be found. So I have no problem with this segment of the hobby.



Gary,

Are you even hearing what you're saying? What's the difference from a fake repo pump plate sign from a repo sign on a wall?

Is it the fact you stuck it on a pump make it all OK? You can't have it both ways. The exact way you feel with regarding to having a fake sign on a pump is the way other collectors feel about having the same sign on their wall.

There is no difference!

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#233114 - Sat Feb 12 2011 04:07 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Bud
Quote:
How can you tell the difference between your cans and the originals.

I make COPIES of high Dollar cans, I don't make High Dollar cans!
My cans are made w/ water slide decals NOT lithographed printed directly on to the can. ALL the cans I use have a Welded seam, not soldered or crimped like originals.

Throw me some more rocks! LOL

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#233121 - Sat Feb 12 2011 04:28 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Dick Bennett]
Bud Miley Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 02 2011
Loc: Greenup, IL
Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
Bud
Quote:
How can you tell the difference between your cans and the originals.

I make COPIES of high Dollar cans, I don't make High Dollar cans!
My cans are made w/ water slide decals NOT lithographed printed directly on to the can. ALL the cans I use have a Welded seam, not soldered or crimped like originals.

Throw me some more rocks! LOL


TX, more rocks. Any chance of posting seam pics.. I seriously dont know the difference. How and where are the cans dated or marked?

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#233132 - Sat Feb 12 2011 05:22 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bud Miley]
souperhigh Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 23 2006
Loc: Tulsa,Oklahoma United States ...
Now that was a good comment !!


Edited by souperhigh (Sat Feb 12 2011 05:30 PM)

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#233140 - Sat Feb 12 2011 05:56 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bud Miley]
Thunder II Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jan 20 2006
Loc: On the plains of Colorado
Originally Posted By: Bud Miley
I seriously dont know the difference. How and where are the cans dated or marked?


Water slide decals are what we put on our model airplanes, that we built as children. A DB copy, on the shelf, looks great. In your hand, it looks fake...
_________________________
Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....

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#233152 - Sat Feb 12 2011 07:13 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Thunder II]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Bud, you asked a good question, you are looking for knowledge.

Maybe, instead of us going back and forth about date, etc. markings on a can, how about you can experts getting together and posting a real good, concice post about HOW TO SPOT A FAKE OR REPRO OLD OIL CAN?

After we cover that, how about doing the same for globes and signs. Putting all the information all together (then those of us who are looking for that info can copy it and file it) in one place it much better than any of the information given out above.

Since we can't stop unmarked repros, how about information on how to spot them, then a month from now when someone asks the same question, we can just refer them back to that post. If it is a good post, maybe Jim can archive it.

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#233189 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:17 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jack Sim]
DasFast1 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Oct 10 2010
Loc: Kearney, NE
Okay now I'm curious what everyone thinks about reproduction pump parts such as reset cranks, sight glasses, nozzle receivers or rests? Should they have mfg dates on those? Or is it not as important because they don't go for as much money and de-value the pump? Or does it de-value the pump?
_________________________
Life is like a video game. The more you play, the better you get!!!

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#233194 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:23 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bob Richards]
Nicole Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Dec 09 2010
Loc: Maryland
Reproductions are a big issue in the art world, and yet there are some who reproduce original works, either on pieces not under copyright or with permision (with a % of sale price going to the museum that owns the piece). All are marked, and the producers earn a reputation for quality and profit and make a good living.

I'm afraid in a downloadable world, folks just make copies for themselves with no money going to the artist/author/musician/etc.etc.etc. Think of all those kids that downloaded music for free, not thinking it was a problem. And though we know examples of filthy rich artists, authors etc, over 90 % of artist/authors etc have a very slim profit margin, and that 'free' copy of whatever takes bread from some child mouth.

When I was younger, the U.S. population was 200,000,000 and now it's 300,000,000 and for historic artifacts, there's not enough 'originals' out there.

Mike, have you even considered telling your vendors, that you would like to put your own mark on the product they want you to sell, and have a standard for where the mark is, so folks know when someone has scratched the mark out? Vendors like you could have some impact on the illegals.

Sorry, I ran on....can't seem to keep away from the deep end of the pool. Bad Nicole! Bad!

BTW Thunder II -- didn't see that thread before. Love the weasel!


Edited by Nicole (Sat Feb 12 2011 09:24 PM)

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#233198 - Sat Feb 12 2011 09:57 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Nicole]
Thunder II Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jan 20 2006
Loc: On the plains of Colorado
Nicole, please feel free to call me Thunder. LOL...
_________________________
Anything Chevron

I'd rather be flying.....

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#233229 - Sun Feb 13 2011 12:41 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jack Sim]
archer2 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Nov 25 2006
Loc: Marshall Va USA
I like Jacks idea about a data base for identifying fakes from originals.
_________________________
Ed

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#233248 - Sun Feb 13 2011 08:44 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Nicole]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Nicole,

Thanks for your post and thoughts - as I said, I'm gain to do what ever small part I can contribute to combat the sales of new signs as old. However, please keep in mind that our primary eBay business is old vintage signs, we only offer the new signs for the customers who love the era yet can't afford some of the original signs.

I guess what I'm saying is we have very little influence to force any one manufacture to change their current processes. It's no secret that guys who buy re-issue signs do not want a current date on their piece. As a matter of fact, the few signs that we do have that are dated, just sit in the store, nobody really wants a 2010 date scarring the looks of an old sign.

Maybe the best way to kick this thing off is to entice manufactures to ID the rear of the sign, this way you know who the manufacture is, if it's licensed, and you know when it was made. Of course, this move only keeps honest people honest - the guys who make up "aged" bogus signs, will continue to have no regulations.

My advise is if a Buyer is interested in a re-issue sign is they buy it from a reputable dealer. I'm not trying to be self-serving here but I do offer a 100% money back guarantee on most all our high-end re-issue sign. This way if the Buyer pops the sign and he thought it was original, he has the option to return it.

The only way we dealers can help fight the problem is when they sell the same sign the thieves do for a fraction of the cost.

Thanks

Originally Posted By: Nicole
Reproductions are a big issue in the art world, and yet there are some who reproduce original works, either on pieces not under copyright or with permision (with a % of sale price going to the museum that owns the piece). All are marked, and the producers earn a reputation for quality and profit and make a good living.

I'm afraid in a downloadable world, folks just make copies for themselves with no money going to the artist/author/musician/etc.etc.etc. Think of all those kids that downloaded music for free, not thinking it was a problem. And though we know examples of filthy rich artists, authors etc, over 90 % of artist/authors etc have a very slim profit margin, and that 'free' copy of whatever takes bread from some child mouth.

When I was younger, the U.S. population was 200,000,000 and now it's 300,000,000 and for historic artifacts, there's not enough 'originals' out there.

Mike, have you even considered telling your vendors, that you would like to put your own mark on the product they want you to sell, and have a standard for where the mark is, so folks know when someone has scratched the mark out? Vendors like you could have some impact on the illegals.

Sorry, I ran on....can't seem to keep away from the deep end of the pool. Bad Nicole! Bad!

BTW Thunder II -- didn't see that thread before. Love the weasel!

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#233266 - Sun Feb 13 2011 09:47 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Originally Posted By: Mikemas


I guess what I'm saying is we have very little influence to force any one manufacture to change their current processes. It's no secret that guys who buy re-issue signs do not want a current date on their piece. As a matter of fact, the few signs that we do have that are dated, just sit in the store, nobody really wants a 2010 date scarring the looks of an old sign.



Pretty simple... they don't like the date on a reproduction than but an original! Original won't have a 2010 date!


Edited by Jarvis (Sun Feb 13 2011 09:48 AM)
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#233274 - Sun Feb 13 2011 10:38 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Loyd Pierce]
Mike618b Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Dec 04 2003
Loc: Grand Rapids Mi
Originally Posted By: Loyd Pierce
Sure make it easy on the newbie. At this point. I'm scared to buy anything,thats not rusty,broke,or looks like it's been ran over two or three times by a truck. All though I realize theres a thing called Rapid Aging. Yes I know where Bob stands, seen the other side of you last night with the repo sign topic, still you was politely blunt.


That's not always a safe bet either. I was a a show once and a guy was selling all these pump plates. He told me they were all originals. They were beat up, dirty and rusty. Far from perfect, but still cool. He had allot of them, so I got suspicious and started checking them over closely. I noticed all the bottom right corners were broken off, except for one sign. On this one sign that the guy had missed, the corner said GPH 2003. The guy was buying repos in bulk, damaging them, letting them rust up, adding patina with an airbrush and passing them off as originals.

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#233277 - Sun Feb 13 2011 10:45 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mike618b]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
not to sound like a broken record, But that is why repops are BAD, dated or not. Someone said it best yesterday;
If you can't afford an original BOO HOO, that is what collecting is all about, longing for that elusive rare piece.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#233278 - Sun Feb 13 2011 10:51 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jarvis]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...regarding repro decals:

...the only repro thing I would use on a pump restoration (other than a part I couldn't find an original of) would be a decal, and I wouldn't want a date on it, I would want it to look exactly like the original...I don't have a problem with that, as I don't see the decals as being collectible in and of themselves, once they've been USED...I suppose the unused ones are collectible, but potential fraud in that situation could be easily prevented by printing REPRODUCTION and a date on the backing paper of the new ones...

...say you restored two pumps exactly the same - except you used original decals on one and exact copies of the decal on the other...is one pump worth more than the other?...I'd say it would be negligible, because the decals are like the paint itself - once applied, you can't remove them, and they're not collectible any more...

...does that make me a hypocrite? maybe to a few, but I don't think so...I probably wouldn't use original decals even if I had them, as they most likely wouldn't work due to age, and there's no going back once you've soaked the decal and tried to apply it...

...but, back to the main thrust of this topic: when it comes to signs, globes, cans, maps, blotters, etc., they absolutely should be marked...and for someone to complain that dating the stuff makes it harder to sell, well...you're in the wrong business...
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#233282 - Sun Feb 13 2011 11:11 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 10 2009
Loc: New Mexico
I think Jack's idea of forming a "pool of knowledge" so to speak is a good one but would be really hard to accomplish.

I thought about it in terms of what I might be able to contribute and came to the conclusion that I can't even always settle in on why I think something is a pop.The are just too many factors going into my decision,and what i am looking at changes from item to itemIt is usually a combination of things that make something just "not look right"to me.

It's just that it would be really hard for me to put down in writing years of experience when I can't even figure it out myself.And,on top of that,I've made mistakes looking at something I had in my hand!!LOL.

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#233284 - Sun Feb 13 2011 11:28 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Old Iron]
DCpate Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 08 2000
Loc: Norman, OK
I hope topics like this inform some newly-minted collectors.

I believe that a true collection should have NO repro/fantasy signs. As Butch Greer has said on this site, "we're collectors not decorators".

I understand you may have a void to fill, or may be able to buy repros on the cheap. But they drag a collection down.

And if no one bought these things, the market would dry up. Not gonna happen but just make the choice IMO
_________________________
There's no stopping the Cretins from hopping
You've got to keep it beating for the hopping Cretins

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#233287 - Sun Feb 13 2011 11:44 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Ohio Oil Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri May 23 2003
Loc: Northwest Ohio
Originally Posted By: Mikemas

I guess what I'm saying is we have very little influence to force any one manufacture to change their current processes. It's no secret that guys who buy re-issue signs do not want a current date on their piece. As a matter of fact, the few signs that we do have that are dated, just sit in the store, nobody really wants a 2010 date scarring the looks of an old sign.


Mike, nobody is asking you to change the world. It starts with sellers such as yourself. Are you personally motivated enough by what you've read that you will discontinue the practice of selling unmarked repops?

If not, you are no different than anybody else looking to make a fast buck off an unmarked repop. And..by reading your comments you have your rationalizations and justifications firmly in place.

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#233312 - Sun Feb 13 2011 12:46 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Ohio Oil]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Last I checked each person's collection is THEIRS. They don't collect to please anyone else, but themselves. As such they answer only to themselves as to what they collect. You don't like it, so what!

If you don't like that someone collects repop/fantasy items, so be it. YOU DO NOT have the power, nor the experiences to judge anyone else's collection(s)..... None of us do.

Last time I checked we don't have a "Collection Police Force". A group who decides what should and should not be in a collection. To those making judgments about others collections, even if we did have such a group, what makes you think you would be in it?

Anyone should, can and will collect the items they want. It should be that way here, without someone else passing judgment on their collecting. Since when do any of us have the power, experience and/or knowledge to condemn someone else's collection?

Collecting is about experiences. It has nothing to do with money nor whomever has the most items or the most expensive items. Any newcomer with money can possibly buy the biggest and most expensive collection(s).

Experiences are different for each individual collector. For some it is working at stations in the 40s,50s,60s,70s..... up to now.
For others it is having a family member or friend who owned/worked at, a station whether they were alive when the station was open or not. For others it is places they worked at adults or owned as adults. For some it is memories, they didn't work at a station. Didn't know anyone who owned or worked at one. Just remembering an important bit of history, important to them.

Globes, pumps, signs, cans etc. are just physical reminders of different eras that have past. Memories, snapshots, stories these are what this hobby was all about when it started.

Last I checked none of us here were one of those first collectors. I maybe wrong, if you were one of those first collectors in the early 50s. Please contact me, as you may have known my father.

Even back in the 50's, that small group of collectors wanted repop and fantasy items marked... or atleast that is what my dad always told me.
_________________________
Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#233316 - Sun Feb 13 2011 12:58 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Bob Richards]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
Bob you lost me after a couple lines, But what a few are saying is a Collector of OLD Gas Station memorabilia IS NOT THE SAME as someone who decorates with Repops.
It would be the same as a True baseball card collector, or someone who has photocopies of baseball cards and calls himself a baseball card collector.
They both collect, one is a Real collector, The other just decorates
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#233318 - Sun Feb 13 2011 01:09 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: KZ1000]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Originally Posted By: KZ1000
not to sound like a broken record, But that is why repops are BAD, dated or not. Someone said it best yesterday;
If you can't afford an original BOO HOO, that is what collecting is all about, longing for that elusive rare piece.


So your saying if your not wealthy then you can't enjoy the hobby? These are tough times today!


Edited by Mikemas (Sun Feb 13 2011 01:11 PM)

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#233321 - Sun Feb 13 2011 01:16 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
A babe Ruth baseball card is rare, Would I want a photocopy of one, Absolutely NOT; Can I afford an original, Absolutely NOT; Do I envy the ones who have one, YES. And I still would not want anything but the real deal no matter what the hobby.
An Antique Collector is one who amasses original items, ones they can afford, they too don't want a fake piece.

You Sir, are what destroys most every collectible hobby there ever was.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#233325 - Sun Feb 13 2011 01:30 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: KZ1000]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Originally Posted By: KZ1000
A babe Ruth baseball card is rare, Would I want a photocopy of one, Absolutely NOT; Can I afford an original, Absolutely NOT; Do I envy the ones who have one, YES. And I still would not want anything but the real deal no matter what the hobby.
An Antique Collector is one who amasses original items, ones they can afford, they too don't want a fake piece.

You Sir, are what destroys most every collectible hobby there ever was.


You need to quit talking for "All" the forum members here, I would bet that over 50% of the members have some type of repo in their collection or would like to include one. It's just a handful of you guys who just can't accept the fact that nothing stays the same!

You guys remind me of the old bearded "Harley Riders" (almost gone now) that refuse to realize that you can ride a bike that dose not drop bolts on the highway or have to sling oil all over other riders!

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#233329 - Sun Feb 13 2011 02:03 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Watchdog7 Offline
Moderator

Registered: Thu Nov 08 2007
KEEP IT CIVIL

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#233332 - Sun Feb 13 2011 02:10 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
[quote=Mikemas]Nicole,

Thanks for your post and thoughts - as I said, I'm gain to do what ever small part I can contribute to combat the sales of new signs as old. However, please keep in mind that our primary eBay business is old vintage signs, we only offer the new signs for the customers who love the era yet can't afford some of the original signs.

Mike Mas

What have you done about your TEXACO AIRCRAFT SIGN AUCTION ? NOTHING !!!

KZ1000 was making his own comments, where do you get off stating he's speaking for "all" members ?

Change your habits, maybe then you might get some respect !!!

Doug



Edited by blacktee (Sun Feb 13 2011 02:37 PM)

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#233337 - Sun Feb 13 2011 02:57 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: blacktee]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Who, time to move on. Everybody trying to change the minds of others and no one offering any information on how to determine a repro from an original.

How about an explanation of the seams on a oil can? How about a list of the oil cans that you know have been reproduced? How about, how about........

Since we can't stop what is being done, maybe we can help our members from buying something that is a fake.

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#233338 - Sun Feb 13 2011 02:58 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Ohio Oil Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri May 23 2003
Loc: Northwest Ohio
Originally Posted By: Mikemas
You need to quit talking for "All" the forum members here, I would bet that over 50% of the members have some type of repo in their collection or would like to include one. It's just a handful of you guys who just can't accept the fact that nothing stays the same!


You very cleverly twist words and redirect the argument. Most here do not object to repops, we understand that they have a place in the collecting world. Our issue is with unmarked repops

So my earlier question still stands. Are you motivated by what you have read to discontinue the practice of selling unmarked repops?

Doesn't matter if you are a sign maker, wholesaler, or vendor of such items...all are equally dirty.

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#233346 - Sun Feb 13 2011 03:47 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Ohio Oil]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va
Ohio Oil,

You're talking in total riddles - please answer me why in the world I would stop selling signs that hundreds of other vendors on Ebay are selling with no problem!

Read my Lips - All our signs are clearly marked "Old Style" for modern signs and "Vintage" for original signs. In over a thousand feedbacks there is not one complaint - so you need to move on to a valid subject!

You need to preach to the manufactures not the retailers. I can't change the way all signs are made no more than you or your handful of repo haters who refuse to open their mind to collecting of today.

You need to just accept that things are different and also accept the fact there are more guys collecting new signs then old ones. Not every guy wants to spend $2,000 on a rusted hulk of metal with bullet holes and so many chips you can tell what the sign says!

People really can think for themselves!

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#233349 - Sun Feb 13 2011 03:51 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: texaspelican]
bppierce Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Aug 19 2007
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
I'm with DIESEL

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#233350 - Sun Feb 13 2011 03:57 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
................................


Edited by blacktee (Sun Feb 13 2011 04:31 PM)

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#233353 - Sun Feb 13 2011 04:07 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Ohio Oil Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri May 23 2003
Loc: Northwest Ohio
Originally Posted By: Mikemas
Ohio Oil,

You're talking in total riddles Read my Lips - All our signs are clearly marked "Old Style" for modern signs and "Vintage" for original signs. In over a thousand feedbacks there is not one complaint - so you need to move on to a valid subject!


If your signs are clearly marked "old style" and "vintage" then that's wonderful. If you are referring to your listing on ebay then you are the one talking in riddles dude.

"Everybody else is doing it"....can't tell you how often I heard that one from my kids. No matter how hard you try to spin it or twist the argument you will find very little support here.

I'm checking out on this discussion, it's painfully obvious nobody here will get through to you.

Thanks for your participation in this topic here on oldgas.

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#233357 - Sun Feb 13 2011 04:28 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: bppierce]
POLESIGNKID Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Aug 19 2010
Loc: CINCINNATI,OHIO
Should this really even be a question that's asked......4ell ya they should be marked....and those that don't mark them should be hung out behind the station.....
_________________________
Cities service, Vickers, Gas and Auto neons, next exit/ ahead signs and now I'm getting into globes....

AKA PARIS HILTON!

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#233361 - Sun Feb 13 2011 05:15 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: blacktee]
Mikemas Offline
Active Member

Registered: Sat May 22 2010
Loc: Roanoke Va

Doug,

Don't have an answer for you on the Texaco Aircraft sign other than the fact its a real sign that I bid on and paid "Real Sign Money" for it in an auction and so did many other experienced bidders against me. They all felt it was a real sign as well.

To be honest with you, someone is going to win that great sign other than you guys because you have shut yourself out of the opportunity. You cannot say with any facts the sign is not 100% genuine.

Originally Posted By: blacktee
[quote=Mikemas]Nicole,

Thanks for your post and thoughts - as I said, I'm gain to do what ever small part I can contribute to combat the sales of new signs as old. However, please keep in mind that our primary eBay business is old vintage signs, we only offer the new signs for the customers who love the era yet can't afford some of the original signs.

Mike Mas

What have you done about your TEXACO AIRCRAFT SIGN AUCTION ? NOTHING !!!

KZ1000 was making his own comments, where do you get off stating he's speaking for "all" members ?

Change your habits, maybe then you might get some respect !!!

Doug


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#233368 - Sun Feb 13 2011 05:48 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Terry Flannery Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Jun 20 2001
Loc: Goodman WI USA
All this hot air, ain't nuttin' gonna change boys. Put your "talents" to better use. Terry

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#233381 - Sun Feb 13 2011 06:26 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Originally Posted By: Mikemas

Doug,

Don't have an answer for you on the Texaco Aircraft sign other than the fact its a real sign that I bid on and paid "Real Sign Money" for it in an auction and so did many other experienced bidders against me. They all felt it was a real sign as well.

To be honest with you, someone is going to win that great sign other than you guys because you have shut yourself out of the opportunity. You cannot say with any facts the sign is not 100% genuine.

Originally Posted By: blacktee
[quote=Mikemas]Nicole,

Thanks for your post and thoughts - as I said, I'm gain to do what ever small part I can contribute to combat the sales of new signs as old. However, please keep in mind that our primary eBay business is old vintage signs, we only offer the new signs for the customers who love the era yet can't afford some of the original signs.

Mike Mas

What have you done about your TEXACO AIRCRAFT SIGN AUCTION ? NOTHING !!!

KZ1000 was making his own comments, where do you get off stating he's speaking for "all" members ?

Change your habits, maybe then you might get some respect !!!

Doug



Mike Did you double up that morning ?

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#233392 - Sun Feb 13 2011 06:51 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: blacktee]
oillease55 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Jul 06 2002
Loc: greenville,ohio
I'm with kz on this,big surprise, marked or unmarked, If it ain't real it's for a different type of collector ;;;;;;;can you say garbage. ;;;;;;;;Ron

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#233401 - Sun Feb 13 2011 07:06 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: oillease55]
Tara Worsham Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Mar 10 2007
Loc: Decatur, IL
Marked, no exceptions. (On the item, not just advertised as such.) Have a lot more that I'd like to say, but it's like beating a dead horse and you just won't get through to some people, especially when there is money to be made. Greed is a terrible thing.

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#233413 - Sun Feb 13 2011 07:16 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Mikemas]
Neil Gerrard Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Dec 09 2003
Loc: Canby, Oregon
You guys remind me of the old bearded "Harley Riders" (almost gone now) that refuse to realize that you can ride a bike that dose not drop bolts on the highway or have to sling oil all over other riders! [/quote]
I have a beard, a 65 Harley that leaks oil and I think you make unmarked repo garbage. No reason not to mark your signs other than $$$$$, I'm sure you realize that you have more of a market if you don't date your items. Then the unscrupulous buyers can flip them to the ignorant, everyone in your circle wins, woo hoo. Don't really get your continuous baiting on this site. You keep stating the same thing over and over but ignore questions asked of you, for example, are your signs licensed by the companies represented?


Edited by Neil Gerrard (Sun Feb 13 2011 07:17 PM)

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#233486 - Sun Feb 13 2011 10:41 PM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Neil Gerrard]
Loyd Pierce Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2011
Loc: Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
Old Bearded Harley Riders------Huh I resemble that remark. your running out of material.------ Harley Davidson parts are produced over seas now. But they are marked,and we are not gone,nor are we blind.
_________________________
*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*

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#233507 - Mon Feb 14 2011 07:13 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Terry Flannery]
Fueluser Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Jun 07 2002
Loc: Schenectady, New York USA
Mike Mas, your quote, "Read my Lips - All our signs are clearly marked "Old Style" for modern signs and "Vintage" for original signs. In over a thousand feedbacks there is not one complaint - so you need to move on to a valid subject!" might be fine for the person buying directly off ebay.... what people are worried about is the next buyer who does not know it WAS marketed as old style. Stamping into the sign (flange) would help. Yes there are repro signs I think are cool because I could never afford a real version but I end up biting my lip and waiting because (see my post of patience) someone (a non-collector) will list a real one not knowing its real list it with a buy it now. I only pray that I am the first one to see it and realize what it is. LOL LOL John

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#233508 - Mon Feb 14 2011 07:22 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: Jack Sim]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Jack Sim
maybe we can help our members from buying something that is a fake.


...which is why I posted about the FAKE Texaco Aircraft and Ford signs in the first place...sunlight is the best disinfectant...
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#233519 - Mon Feb 14 2011 08:07 AM Re: Question...mark or unmarked? [Re: gulfiend!]
T-way Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Jul 24 2002
Loc: Riley, MI, USA
He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
~ Benjamin Franklin
_________________________


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