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#23810 - Sun May 27 2007 11:38 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
BLange Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Oct 12 2005
Loc: Cedar Rapids, IA
Pick is the nickname for it, and for the life of me I can't remember the Gov. name for it. But basically all it is, is a Gov. program where the Gov. pays you not to grow crops on your land, set it aside. There is all kind of scams that came out of it. Not saying what the Oil companies did with it was a scam. It's what any Co. that ownes a ton of land would do that's not into farming. The Gov. pays them not to grow crops where you couldn't grow a weed.

I remember in the early 90's that's all you heard about around here was how "Pick" was bailing out the farmers. We had a ton of corn laying around rotting. Maybe some of the farmers on here know better than I, about it.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with high gas prices, just a little debate on your post Pablo.

Have a good one, I'm out of here,


Brian
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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#23811 - Mon May 28 2007 12:02 AM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Gas prices dropped to below $3.00 (2.959) today, here in St. Louis. Probably because nobody went anywhere this weekend.
Jack Sim
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Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#23812 - Mon May 28 2007 12:26 AM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
Paul, because you say something it must be true? The House and Senate both have Bills before Congress addressing Oil Subsidies. Wait I forgot you said I was wrong about my info, so House Bill H.R.453.IH, Senate Bill S.666.IS and Senate Bill S.115.IS must not exsist. Oh by the way, the House Bill is called "Ending Subsidies for Big Oil Act of 2007 and the first Senate Bill is named "Oil Industry Tax Break Repeal Act of 2007. For those who wonder where I got some of my facts: They can be checked out at www.house.gov then go to Find a Bill, Amendment or Debate.
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#23813 - Mon May 28 2007 08:50 AM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Pablo Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2005
Loc: El Dorado Hills, CA
Bob,
Let's get to the real truth. A subsidy as defined by the The American Heritage Dictionary is "Monetary assistance granted by a government to a person or a private commercial enterprise".

Major oil companies DO NOT receive subsidies. (Government assistance by Britain and France for Airbus is a good example of a real subsidy.) Tax deductions or incentives are not subsidies. Accelerated tax deductions for the oil industry have historically been designed to encourage drilling in deep water, tight sands, coal beds, etc. They are not handouts like many seem to think, including the Democrats who wrote the House bill.

My posts on this thread are designed to encourage people to think instead of spouting off mindless babble. There are many sides to every story, there are facts, there are half-truths, there is nonsense and myth. An intelligent, educated person will research, discover the facts and dismiss the falsehoods. Always whining, moaning and complaining about the "conspiracies" in the world without credible facts is not indicative of an open, intelligent mind.

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 05-28-2007).]

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#23814 - Mon May 28 2007 09:20 AM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
silent chief Offline
Active Member

Registered: Fri Sep 30 2005
Loc: Ontario, Canada
An interesting thread. If nothing else, it certainly shows that there is a lot of information out there about why fuel is the price it is. Some of the information is even true! But it's really difficult to tell what's true and partially true from what isn't. And that's a problem.
I've worked for oil companies in Houston, Calgary, White Plains, and yes, even Sugar Land... it's also difficult for even an insider to get a representative big picture. But at the end of the day,if you owned an oil company, what would you do? Operate like a charity, so everyone can afford to buy your product at will and use as much as they please? Because that is what asking the guvmint to step in to spank these "greedy" oil companies and get them to lower prices really means.

Prices will continue to go up per unit of oil-based anything. I'd bet on that...



[This message has been edited by silent chief (edited 05-28-2007).]

[This message has been edited by silent chief (edited 05-28-2007).]
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#23815 - Mon May 28 2007 09:46 AM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
tallgye49 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu May 18 2006
Loc: Simi Valley, Ca, USA
Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn...stretch...after I send my thoughts to several departed ex-Army buddies who didn't make it back from 'Nam, I'm going out to the garage to get a couple of pumps ready to put back together and sell to some folks who might like them and one for myself. Afterall, I enjoy doing that. This site and all the guys who have been so generous sharing info have helped me to do that.

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#23816 - Mon May 28 2007 12:11 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
This will be the last time I comment on this subject, I know some of you are quite glad to read this fact. Paul, the Congress of the US calls it subsidies. But, you don't agree with the terminology they use, so it must not be a subsidy???? I have read and heard some arrogant things in my 50+ years here on this earth, but I think you take the prize. I got my info from the Library of Congress and you told me to do my homework. I give you some of the Bills in said Congress,this session of Congress, again you say I haven't done my research. You give a website as your proof, they work for Oil Companies, Oil Speculators and Investors. In fact I see where they have commented on prospectus that I have used. They are where I got some of my facts about pricing collapsing when OPEC couldn't control their members but,I read and used points without "cherry picking" their reports. So to everyone, I know this so called debate between myself and Paul is either entertaining or stupid. Most likely both. Read the House and Senate Bills, for yourselves and decide if you are interested. If the one's footing the money in Congress call them subsidies, if BP calls them subsidies in House subcommittee meetings on the Artic pipeline. If the Oil Corporation Chairman's call them subsidies in Senate Hearings, then maybe you will decide what to call them. Don't let me or Paul talk over each other, make up your own minds, because as the taxpayer you are the ones paying out the monies.
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Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#23817 - Mon May 28 2007 12:38 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
huskybob Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 16 2001
Loc: Near Tracy Rock
Pablo...... you appear to be highly educated, so shouldn't you be able to make your points without being rude and belittling the members of oldgas.....try showing a little class.

Blange..... The only Pick program I was aware of in the PNW was called the PIK program....... Payment In Kind.... which was instead of the Government paying you in cash they gave you a certain number of bushels of the crop you raise so they could get rid of their surplus grains they had in storage.
The program they have around here to get payed for not raising any crops is the Conservation Reserve Program....... CRP.
I'm pretty sure the land had to raise crops at one time to be able to qualify for it.
Not all land qualifies for CRP.
bob




[This message has been edited by huskybob (edited 05-28-2007).]

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#23818 - Mon May 28 2007 12:51 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Pablo Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2005
Loc: El Dorado Hills, CA
Bob comment: "because as the taxpayer you are the ones paying out the monies."

Not true!! Taxpayers DO NOT pay out any "monies" to oil companies. Again, do some real homework. Here's a blurb from the House website...

"H.R. 6 includes two components that will roll back the unnecessary tax benefits and costly federal oil and gas leasing provisions included in the Energy Policy Act of 2005. The legislation will also correct the botched leases issued by the Interior Department between 1998 and 1999, and send a clear message that these abuses will no longer be tolerated. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) estimates this blunder, which erroneously allowed lessees off the hook for making royalty payments, could cost the Federal Treasury up to $10 billion in revenues."

Democrats love to describe accelerated tax deductions and incentives as "subsidies". As I previously stated, these tax benefits were designed to encourage deep water drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. By the way, any deep water prospect requires capital expenditures of several BILLION dollars before the first drop of oil is produced. Of course, I wouldn't expect a novice critic to understand that fact.

In addition, the referenced "botched leases" for the deep water prospects were solely the product of the Department of the Interior and had nothing to do with the oil companies. The DOI simply neglected to include escalating rates for higher oil prices. Royalties have been and will continue to be paid to the Federal government. Of course, Democrats love to bring this up as an example of subsidies for "big oil".

Now, I intend to enjoy the rest of the holiday. Continue to wallow in misinformation, if you choose. Good day.

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#23819 - Mon May 28 2007 01:01 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
aquartlow Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Aug 10 2006
Loc: Trenton, Ohio
We all express our feelings based upon our bias and everyone has a bias on every topic, from the poor to the wealthiest people and for all businesses. It is a given that the world is dollar driven and the high oil and gas prices effect us all.

Most people do not tend to think very far into the future. Universities produce many people known as futurist. Extremely intelligent people that examine the future and try to predict conditions and events that most of us seldom consider. If a futurist of thirty years ago would have considered that there would be no more refineries built in the US what do you think their thoughts would have been knowing that the population was increasing, as it did.

Below is a quote from one of Pablo’s previous posts:

“First of all, the main reason that petroleum products prices have been going higher is increased demand and not enough surplus capacity. The primary reason for the lag in supply is the bottleneck in the refining and distribution infrastructure. There have been no refineries built in the USA in over thirty years. Blame this on government regulation and historically poor refining and marketing economics.”

I believe an additional contributing factor are the large contributions given by big business to fund political candidates and parties. They ARE given additional considerations.

It's simple, we need more choices in energy!


Mick

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#23820 - Mon May 28 2007 01:07 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Pablo Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2005
Loc: El Dorado Hills, CA
Huskybob: "Pablo...... you appear to be highly educated, so shouldn't you be able to make your points without being rude and belittling the members of oldgas.....try showing a little class."

Well, maybe I should. I started out merely trying to educate and encourage folks to grasp and understand the big picture. But I'm like Jim Cramer, sometimes it's not about making friends but finding truth and fact. I have little patience with some of the small-minded talk out here.

I've worked in the oil industry for 23 years and every oil company is like any other business entity...thousands of people doing their jobs to the best of their abilities in a legal, honest and responsible manner. The caricature of the fat cat with the big cigar is a product of the newspapers and comic strips. Oil companies work in a highly competitive environment both economically and politically. Of course, like any other business oil companies will use any incentive extended legally by Congress.

Have a great holiday!!

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#23821 - Mon May 28 2007 01:22 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
I said I wouldn't comment. I lied.
Paul, any shortfall in the Budget is made up by the taxpayer. That is in Econ 101.
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Looking for Tide Water/ Tide Water-Associated/ Tidewater items

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#23822 - Mon May 28 2007 01:30 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Terry Flannery Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Jun 20 2001
Loc: Goodman WI USA
Pablo did you read my post where I commented on Congress forgiving the oil revenues on the North Slope of Alaska? We can't call that a subsidy can we, so how about calling it a gift. Pretty damn nice gift from the American people wasn't it. What gift do we get from the oil companies in return........... a jar of Vaseline. You do have a attitude over this and have admitted your oil connection, are you also a lawyer? Rave on. Just an old vet from Wis.

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#23823 - Mon May 28 2007 01:40 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
TIME OUT
LET'S ALL HAVE A COLD ONE.
db
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Reproduction/Fantasy Cans
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p2/oldegaspump/AllCansMASTERTHUMBNAIL_zps4bfdbbc7.jpg
Rnd Can Re-lids


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#23824 - Mon May 28 2007 02:30 PM Re: IT's RIP OFF TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
souperhigh Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 23 2006
Loc: Tulsa,Oklahoma United States ...
Way to go Paddy!!
Now you have a renewed version of the Mason-Dixon conflict going on.

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