Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion To grind or not to grind...

OK, I am at the disassembly stage of the Tok 630. Thanks to Mark (one of the guys on this board) I have all the parts needed to get the sandblasting started on the smaller parts. HOWEVER - the question is to take the angle grinder to the outer skins or try to sand blast it. the metal is very solid, but pitted and the surface rust looks to be tough. I am on a budget, so blasting the skins will be labor intensive and could be quite costly. Has anyone used an angle grinder to get rid of the rust? If so, how did you like the results.

More questions to come...

Thanks in advance!!!

TOM!!!!! PUT THE GRINDER DOWN, AND BACK AWAY SLOWLY!!!!

Try a chemical stripper first, then go from there. A grinder is very likely to do enough damage to make you cry.

I did a Restoration of the Month, on a low cost pump resto. I'm not at the computer that has that link, but hold toght, I'll find it.

Chemical stripper eh? What is the brand and where can I get it? I am very interested as I am desperate to do the majority of this myself to truly experience it and to save some $$

You can find chemical strippers at most "Home Supply" stores and/or auto parts stores.

Some do not react well with metal, so make sure the one you purchase is not too aggressive. Also purchase some kind of face mask and gloves. The fumes can be quite harsh on some brands.

Using paint strippers can be very dangerous. The chemicals that remove paint can burn your eyes and skin severely. You can safely do it with proper handling with rubber gloves, face mask and respirator (if used indoors). There are "safer" strippers that work more slowly.

Paint strippers generally don't remove rust, just paint. There are dipping services that can remove rust, but no do-it-yourself with that.

Rust has to be removed by sand/media blasting or grinding and rotary wire brushing. Any of those can warp metal if overdone, heating up the panels. Smaller ares can be cleaned up with a grinder, but larger areas are more efficiently blasted.

There is no paint (has been gone for years) and the only thing that is left is the rusty metal. I guess the media blasting is the only resort.

If you are careful, one can use a wire wheel. As Jim said it is real easy to heat up an area. I have used a wheel on a few pumps in the past. I "hit" an area for a few minutes and then went to another. Don't use pressure or a high rpm, let the wheel do the work. Once the rust was "loosened up", I went ahead and hand sanded the rust with 180 grit wet sandpaper. Use a board, not just your hand, so you get even coverage.

Might be worth the time, to try the different techniques first on a old fender or light sheet metal. If you burn and/or warp that, then go to media blasting.

I would sand blast it with fine grit of sand or Aluminum oxide. After basting use a small sander with a 2" scotch bright wheel to smooth it out. If you have small pits they can be filled it with bondo and DA/hand sand it out.

If you use a angle grinder with grinding disc (25/60 grit) you will made it worse....and then you will have fix that!!

Randy

NO GRINDING! I have used a fellow before that is in the car restoration business and he has the ability to completely submerge large pieces and that kind of bath takes everything off. Last pump that he did for me cost $80. Those guys are experienced and usually reasonable! Remember--NO GRINDING!

Why not consider just sanding and lightly using a wire wheel and rattle can it? Lots of people, myself included, like the looks of a rougher restoration on the appropriate pump. There are also chemical "rust encapsulators" that you can use to seal the rust after you have taken off all you can. Not all pumps have to be "museum quality" to be a great looking pump. Maybe this is the way to go since this is your first and you have a budget.
John
Show some pics!

as Kevin said,"dipping" works and gets rid of all rust,even in nooks and crannies that you cant reach with a wheel.guy here was about 120.00 for a whole visible gotta make sure you only dip the steel parts and no pot metal or such.the chemicals will eat that stuff up.also the chemical rust treatment stuff does work,but its about 15 bucks for a bottle here.i use it and seems to work well.alot depends on what kind of resto you are doing.will it be outside?do you want it perfect?etc..a perfect resto and paint job is not cheap,but you can do a very nice job on a budget.takes alot of hours though.but thats the fun of it!! jmo

I'm looking to get it as perfect as I possible. I dont want any rust to show and I am willing to work my butt off for results. I had no clue about the rust dip thing. That sounds pretty nice. So an auto resto shop would know about that stuff?

I definately would not grind them Strip first then use a Sanding "Flapper" wheel. These work great for stuff like this and will not leave any gouges in the metal that angle grinders will.

Any shop that specializes in restoration of older cars should be able to put you onto the right track to find someone that does it.

If rust is all that is left then most likely there is a lot of pitting going on. Media blasting is the most efficient at cleaning this up. I blast several times a week for my brother-in-law's blasting shop and rust takes time to clean up right. When we have anything sensitive to warping, turning the blast pressure down to around 55 lbs and using a fine or reused blast media works very well. We use glass and I always work at a slight distance from the material and using broad strokes while moving around to different areas to keep heat to an absolute minimum. On heavier metals and metals that have any kind of form or shape to them, they hold up very well. If you can find a way to have it done, I very much recommend blasting them.

Thanks Dave,

I am considering buying a media blaster because by the time I have it blasted, I could probably own a complete outfit myself. I am a pretty handy guy and I have used a sand blast cabinet before. Is using the blasting guy outside of the blasting cabinet all that much different? Grinding is definitely out at this point and I will check into a resto shop to see what they've got going on w/regards to the chemical treatment - but it's looking more and more like the media blasting will be the ultimate solution.

thanks again everyone, this is very helpful

Tom

TOM--??
Blasting Cabinet--$1800 cheapo
Air compressor--$2500
Lines & accessories--$500
---------------------------
$4800 ?
Send it out!

I found a blasting cabinet which must be the ULTIMATE cheapo at Tractor Supply for everything (bonnet etc) except for the skins for $99 and a buddy has an air compressor to run it that I can borrow. There are also gravity fed blasters that I was thinking about using for the skins. Do you all think this strategy wont work? I have read several comments and the small cabinet at TSC appears to be able to handle smaller stuff. Hopefully this will do the trick, if not YIKES!!!

All I can say is that you're in for an experience and I've used a lot of different commercial type media blasters with lots of different compressors, including double compressor setups!

UGH, that doesn't sound good. As previously mentioned, I am on a pretty serious budget (trying to keep it at $1000). Trying to stay disciplined; Im gonna talk to the fabricator guy who I've been emailing and weigh my options after that. I appreciate the help and assistance. I am going to try to get the old girl up and photos taken this weekend, so you can all see what I am dealing with. I'm sure it is similar to what everyone here is working with.

More to come...

Check around and see if there are any that you can rent time on! I rent one by the hour from a mechanic friend and he charges me $20 a time(usually an hour). I like it because it saves me the room and the mess thats always around one, and I have no costs of operatio! Perfect!

IF (big IF) you have a large air compressor - or a lot of patience - I would highly recommend skipping (more like postponing) the blasting cabinet and get yourself a pressurized sandblaster pot. You can buy a junker import for $100-150 that will last a while (been there done that) or spend around $400 and get a quality, made in USA tool that will serve you well a long time.

My dad and I both use the Texasblaster (Texasblaster.com) - it's well made and works great. You can also type this number into oldgas Ebay search box at bottom of this page and see a similar model for $400 delivered: 190459618613 I have not seen/used this model but it looks pretty well made?

I've even made adapters to hook up my pressure pot to my blast cabinet. Once you use a pressurized blaster you can't go back to siphon feed. It's so much faster and easier.

Keep an eye out for a deal on a cabinet as sandblasting outdoors is no fun - hot and messy usually. Cabinets are great for small parts and quick clean ups.

Hope this helps - good luck with your project.

I've only done one pump so far and it sounds like you're in the same boat as I was/am. Trying to save cash for the next one. I took the stripper, flapper, wire wheel (three different kinds), sander, rust inhibitor, bondo route. I put the stripper on and within 15 minutes most of it bubbled right up. Just use some dishwashing gloves and a scrapper and you'll probably get 75% or more off (I did it outside). After that I used a wire wheel on an angle grinder moving back and forth trying not to stay in spot too long. For small area with inside corners I'd used either a sander or small wire wheel on a dremel.

Here is a picture of my side panels one before and one after. I guess it all depends on how much time you got. I think it only took me an hour on that clean one.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Big Tom,
Before you invest a lot of bucks read and follow this thread on electrolysis. It is safe whena few simple rules are followed, has worked GREAT for me for 5 pumps. It removes not only paint but RUST with little or no effort and very low cost.
Hope this helps.
Rod van Pelt

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=127342

Another OLD post of a Pressure Pot Sand Blaster I built on a small budget. I can pull the PVC pipe up to do closeup work or push to nozzle. Pot holds over 300#. I used 80-120#of air for most pump blasting.
http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=10093&Number=54930#Post54930

looks good Dick. If you are looking to build a pressure pot - there is a guy selling plans on ebay (220747040024) for about $8 - says it includes cad drawings, parts list/sources etc and has gotten favorable reviews from purchasers? My experience is you are probably better off going this route using quality parts than buying the import that WILL fall apart. I would spend my time building a blaster before I spent hours stripping, sanding, wire wheeling,etc. You'll have a tool for life. Good luck.

I have used DeWalt angle grinder with the flapper discs of various grits and was very satisfied with the removal of rust and paint.

Larry

I really dont care much for paint stripper. The stuff is very toxic, and expensive to get rid of properly. I would recommend having the parts media blasted.

WELL SAID! YOUR OVER THINKING THIS TOM, A CABINET WILL NOT SUIT YOUR NEEDS ANYWAYS ,SMALL PARTS YES,LARGE PANELS .......NO! SEND IT OUT! YOU WILL BE BETTER OFF,ALOT OF PLACES WILL BLAST LARGE STUFF ONCE A WEEK AND GET TOGETHER A LOT AND BLAST ALL AT ONCE , "ITS CHEAP" GITTER DONE, BE SURE TO GET SOME PRIMER ON THE PIECES YOU HAVE BLASTED IF YOU DO NOT PLAN ON SPRAYING FOR A WHILE ,"TRY TO KEEP ANY RUST FROM RE SURFACING" YOU WILL DO JUST FINE!

I've got to tell you that there is a lot of very good advice here and a lot of different ways to go about getting these cleaned. But I honestly feel your pain with a budget and I still think after all is said and done, that having them blasted, as a opposed to buying into a lot of equipment or materials s the way to go. The only other option that I see as both cost effective AND thorough at the same time is the electrolysis method but this is not something I am well versed on.

I would just find a professional media blaster and have it done. All the skins, frame and base runs between $50-$100 to have done. That sounds like allot, but in the long run it is cheap. I used to do all paint and rust removal myself, but after a while, I realized it was costing much more for me to do it. A gallon of paint stripper was $25, a wire wheel was $10, and sand paper was $15. All that was $50 and I hadn't even started yet. Here is the kicker, It took me almost 30 hours of very hard work to clean the panels, and they wheren't that good when done. Then after all that, I still had to clean up the huge mess. If you factor the materials and your time, it is much cheaper in the end to have it done. Now I take everything to the blaster, pick it up perfectly clean 2 days later. No mess, no fuss, no problems at all.

Well said and I agree totally!! Let them do it and save yourself some time, headache and probably some money and get a better job in the end.

Keith

WOW WOW WOW - so much information!!! This is why this site and all these years of frustration ERRRR - experience is something that I would call a god send. Thank you all very much and I am going to get a bid on blasting first THEN check into the electrolosis for the smaller stuff. I have a bonnet that is in pristine condition and I dont want some guy to ruin it as they are tough to come by. MAN, I am speechless as to the advice that I have gotten for my issue. The angle grinder be DAMNED!!!

thanks again and for anyone going to Pate, the first round of beers* is on me!!!

BIG TOM

*or whatever you want to drink

Hmmmmm.....Can't believe nobody's suggested a molasses bath

I figured by now SOMEbody here would have built a container big enough to lay a complete pump in....

That stuff works!(slow)....I've seen it turn rusty brown 80 yr old sheetmetal body parts into clean bare metal

Molasses? Like the kind you bake with? Please elaborate and provide photos. I am assuming you would need somehting like a horse troph to lay these skins in... thats a LOT of molasses. I wouldn't even know where to get that much. Also, how long would I need to lay this stuff in there for?

Thanks

Molasses in 5gal cans is available at most feed stores, for cattle, horses, sheep & goats. Even in Calif !

Yeah, like Dick said, buy it at the co-op or feed store---it's pretty cheap....I think the mix ratio is 5:1 with water(?) Only drawback I've heard other than the smell is the time factor---up to 2 or 3 weeks soaking for real rusty stuff.
I don't have any pics/links(not sure I am smart enuf to post 'em if I did)...do a search, it's out there.
I shipped some of the brownest, crustiest sheetmetal for a 26 Chevy to a friend in Australia....he soaked it and I swear it looked like new cold rolled steel after 3-4 weeks
Oh yeah, the guys I've seen doing it build a frame out of 2x4s and line it with heavy plastic and cover it with plastic while it's working. Small stuff can go in a tupperware tub with a lid.

Molasses? Just molasses and water? Thats a new one on me. Someone must try this. I vote for DB.
John

Keep tightly covered or you'll have soo many Bees & Yellow Jackets around that you won't be able to get near.
I'll WELD Wayne 60 frame rails to make the box. Can't buy new steel w/ what I was offered for them.
Maybe some time AFTER I get Storage Yard MOVED!