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Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' #256205
Thu May 26 2011 12:56 PM
Thu May 26 2011 12:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,059
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline OP
Veteran Member
gulfiend!  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,059
Raleigh, North Carolina
...there are several unmarked reproduction US Highway Shields being offered online at:

http://shields.aaroads.com/sales.php

...and on eBay by seller 'agentsteel53'...the link below will take you to one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/custom-US-route-embossed-highway-marker-road-sign-/270737872684

...in the description for the auction above (posted here for educational purposes, and therefore 'fair use') the seller advertises his wares thusly (underline added for emphasis):

"The originals of these signs regularly sell for $7500 or more... a couple weeks ago an Arizona sign sold for $12000 and that didn't even have any paint on it! Dang, the economy may be hosed but the prices on original highway signs are spiraling to crazy heights anyway! Here you can have a sign that is made on the same old press, with the same old dies, to look exactly identical to those unaffordable items ... and you can have it for under a hundred and forty bucks. How's that for a deal?"

...nowhere in the auction description is there any indication that the signs are indeed marked as reproductions...

...the same eBay seller, 'agentsteel53', offers porcelain US highway shields that are exact reproductions, EXCEPT that the backs of the repros are white porcelain and not grey, as on the originals...strangely enough, the seller states that his reason for making the backs on the repros white is:

"To protect the investments of those who have the genuine article (complete with bullet holes and friends), the back of (the repro) is the same color white as the front, as opposed to the mottled gray design that immediately sets apart the originals"

...as the seller has repeatedly refused to mark the stamped steel signs as reproductions - and is apparently unconcerned with "protecting the investments of those who have the genuine article" when the stamped steel signs are concerned, buyers of stamped steel US Highway Shields should be wary at the very least when making such a purchase...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: gulfiend!] #256208
Thu May 26 2011 01:38 PM
Thu May 26 2011 01:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 605
Georgia
coheley5 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
coheley5  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 605
Georgia
I agree I could not buy any thing from this seller because I would feel I was helping promote the repop signs that can not be identified in the future. Have bought one sign and only one before that I was fooled on but it will not happen again.


Remember you are only as good as your help
If you don't make any noise no one will hear you!
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: gulfiend!] #256217
Thu May 26 2011 04:23 PM
Thu May 26 2011 04:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: gulfiend!
...in the description for the auction above (posted here for educational purposes, and therefore 'fair use') the seller advertises his wares thusly (underline added for emphasis):


I'm not going to sue you, so don't worry about quoting smile

Quote:
Here you can have a sign that is made on the same old press, with the same old dies, to look exactly identical to those unaffordable items


there are differences. I am allowed to use, shall we say, marketing terms.

here is something I wrote to someone this morning about how to most quickly identify my embossed signs:

the first thing to look at is the letters "US" - they are a die pair which was made in 1989 (I've seen them in person) and the almost completely closed loop of the "S" (making it look like an "8" from a distance) is not something that was ever used on real old shields.

one of mine:
http://shields.aaroads.com/show.php?image=AZ19260702&search=70

the real thing:
http://shields.aaroads.com/show.php?image=AZ19260703&search=70

also, the mounting holes are 1/4" too low. I've never seen this elsewhere. normally, the centers of the mounting holes are 2 1/4" and 14 1/4" from the bottom tip. on mine, they are 2" and 14". you can see above the state name, they barely scrape the tops of the letters, while on the real one they do not.

so, two easy ways to check: funny letters "US", and mounting holes 1/4" too low. that's how I can tell one of mine from about 60 feet away. and if you want a foolproof guarantee, test the paint for lead. mine have no lead, of course.


Quote:
...as the seller has repeatedly refused to mark the stamped steel signs as reproductions - and is apparently unconcerned with "protecting the investments of those who have the genuine article" when the stamped steel signs are concerned, buyers of stamped steel US Highway Shields should be wary at the very least when making such a purchase...


something else from earlier this morning:

if I etch in the word "replica" and date, someone can sandblast it right out. I'd have to etch it to 3/4 of the depth of the sign and even then someone could sandblast it and carefully metal-fill it back in. bury it for years, slap some rust on it, and no one is the wiser. so, permanent markings will not dissuade the determined counterfeiter - it just costs me time and effort. universal recognition of differences, that's the only way to go.

I am open to hearing solutions. I have three criteria:

* unremovable - namely, removing it would tear up the sign sufficiently as to make a counterfeit of it nearly worthless.

* economical - I am operating on a thin profit margin; I need to be able to do this quickly and inexpensively.

* undistracting from the aesthetics of the product - so, something on the back, likely.


jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: agentsteel53] #256225
Thu May 26 2011 05:24 PM
Thu May 26 2011 05:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,056
Decatur, IL
Tara Worsham Offline
Veteran Member
Tara Worsham  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,056
Decatur, IL
Originally Posted By: agentsteel53
if I etch in the word "replica" and date, someone can sandblast it right out. I'd have to etch it to 3/4 of the depth of the sign and even then someone could sandblast it and carefully metal-fill it back in. bury it for years, slap some rust on it, and no one is the wiser. so, permanent markings will not dissuade the determined counterfeiter - it just costs me time and effort. universal recognition of differences, that's the only way to go.


Sounds like you're making excuses to not even try. I have a feeling nothing anyone comes up with will be acceptable to you.

Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Tara Worsham] #256229
Thu May 26 2011 05:58 PM
Thu May 26 2011 05:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Tara Worsham

Sounds like you're making excuses to not even try. I have a feeling nothing anyone comes up with will be acceptable to you.


[I'm redacting my comment, since I do note that you had a point here.]

Last edited by agentsteel53; Thu May 26 2011 06:36 PM.

jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Tara Worsham] #256230
Thu May 26 2011 06:03 PM
Thu May 26 2011 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 119
Greenup, IL
B
Bud Miley Offline
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Bud Miley  Offline
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B
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 119
Greenup, IL
Yeah I have a solution Mac.. since you make a "thin profit margin"(which I dont believe) Why are you making them anyway? You obvious enjoy making identical repops. Your 1/4" difference is laughable and you should have made the metal 2" larger or 2" smaller than the original,.

Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Bud Miley] #256233
Thu May 26 2011 06:20 PM
Thu May 26 2011 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
it is not possible to alter the size of the blank, as the collar die (which defines the shield shape) is designed to accept a particularly sized blank. it's the equivalent of trying to strike quarters on dime blanks. you won't get smaller quarters.


jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: agentsteel53] #256236
Thu May 26 2011 06:35 PM
Thu May 26 2011 06:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
I've actually decided to invest in a steel stamp, with which I can punch in the word "REPLICA 2011" in about 2 1/2 by 1 inch size. I'm thinking twice on the back, one to either side of the number, should be sufficient without affecting the display characteristics.

I do realize I was being quite absolutist (thanks Tara!) and while this won't do much against the hardcore counterfeiters, it will dissuade at least a portion of people looking to make a casual buck.


jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: agentsteel53] #256241
Thu May 26 2011 07:04 PM
Thu May 26 2011 07:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 605
Georgia
coheley5 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
coheley5  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 605
Georgia
I need to clarify what I said in the above post. I do not want to single out any one person I will never buy from any one who makes repo signs.


Remember you are only as good as your help
If you don't make any noise no one will hear you!
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: agentsteel53] #256250
Thu May 26 2011 08:17 PM
Thu May 26 2011 08:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,056
Decatur, IL
Tara Worsham Offline
Veteran Member
Tara Worsham  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,056
Decatur, IL
Originally Posted By: agentsteel53
I've actually decided to invest in a steel stamp, with which I can punch in the word "REPLICA 2011" in about 2 1/2 by 1 inch size. I'm thinking twice on the back, one to either side of the number, should be sufficient without affecting the display characteristics.

I do realize I was being quite absolutist (thanks Tara!) and while this won't do much against the hardcore counterfeiters, it will dissuade at least a portion of people looking to make a casual buck.


Thank you for deciding to stamp these as reproductions! Like you said, it won't stop the hardcore counterfeiters, but will make it more difficult for the "small timers". The effort is much appreciated!

Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: agentsteel53] #256254
Thu May 26 2011 08:25 PM
Thu May 26 2011 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 119
Greenup, IL
B
Bud Miley Offline
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Bud Miley  Offline
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B
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 119
Greenup, IL
Originally Posted By: agentsteel53
.

I do realize I was being quite absolutist (thanks Tara!) and while this won't do much against the hardcore counterfeiters, it will dissuade at least a portion of people looking to make a casual buck.


Mac, Since you are both manufacturer and seller, I do believe it is you who is the hardcore counterfeiter here! You seem to have all the answers for making repops.

Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Bud Miley] #256259
Thu May 26 2011 09:01 PM
Thu May 26 2011 09:01 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,002
Northwest Ohio
Ohio Oil Offline
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Ohio Oil  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,002
Northwest Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bud Miley
Mac, Since you are both manufacturer and seller, I do believe it is you who is the hardcore counterfeiter here! You seem to have all the answers for making repops.


agentsteel has been an invaluable resource for members on here educating anyone who has a question about route markers....and he has fellow members here as customers.

He has a great website with pertinent info.

He's been a seller on ebay for 10+ years with 100% feedback.

He's clearly communicated what makes his signs different from originals and has agreed to date his signs on the back.

You've been here less than 6 months and are ripping on this guy in two seperate threads...let's see your accomplishments.

I never knew much about these signs until agentsteel began posting here and he is a welcomed addition to our world of collecting. He's always been helpful, polite, and even asked what he could do to help the problem. I'm sure if you keep trying though you can get him ***** off enough that he will join the ranks of others who no longer post here.

Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Bud Miley] #256260
Thu May 26 2011 09:06 PM
Thu May 26 2011 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Bud Miley

Mac, Since you are both manufacturer and seller, I do believe it is you who is the hardcore counterfeiter here! You seem to have all the answers for making repops.


I will work with reasonable people who make requests in a civilized fashion.

But I am not going to respond to slander.


jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Ohio Oil] #256261
Thu May 26 2011 09:06 PM
Thu May 26 2011 09:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
Ohio Oil - thank you smile


jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
Re: Unmarked Repro Hwy Signs - eBay 'agentsteel53' [Re: Tara Worsham] #256262
Thu May 26 2011 09:07 PM
Thu May 26 2011 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
agentsteel53 Offline
Petro Enthusiast
agentsteel53  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 172
San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Tara Worsham
Thank you for deciding to stamp these as reproductions! Like you said, it won't stop the hardcore counterfeiters, but will make it more difficult for the "small timers". The effort is much appreciated!


and thank you, for noting that I was just re-hashing the years-old positions which I had held without re-evaluating them!

I also note that it will prevent the chains of people re-selling a replica as an original just because they bought it as one, not knowing better.

Last edited by agentsteel53; Thu May 26 2011 09:08 PM.

jake@aaroads.com

any questions about road signs - authenticity, value, etc - ask away!

the AARoads shield gallery - over 10,000 historic highway marker photos

San Diego, CA - US 80, 101, 395
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