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Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto #257324
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:00 AM
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:00 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
AntiquePerfectio Offline OP
Active Member
AntiquePerfectio  Offline OP
Active Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
Hi Everyone!

I had to post some pictures of my Penometer 41 as it just arrived yesterday and after buying it at an auction with just seeing a few pictures online, I'm absolutely amazed and in awe how something that was supposed to be used in such a harsh environment and being almost 80 years old, can look like, on the inside, as if it just left the factory! Supposedly this pump was used inside a barn on a farm up to the 1970's, but I had assumed it would have started it's life at a station and been bought 2nd hand by the farmer. I think now it might have been bought new and was never used in retail service - just a guess though. Another thing that makes me think that is, unless the pump was totally stripped down and repainted, the original outside color was flat primer gray (still places where it shows, and under the seams, bezels, etc.) Inside of the skins are painted with a flat brown primer - has to be factory, and after wiping the dust/dirt off, still look like new. No shadow, or residiual traces of any brand decals, logos, signs at all.

I'm dating it to 1932, as there are several date stamps in places (on the filler handle, bottom suction tube coupleling, the "Appelton Electric Co" ignition safe light fixture & switch and a couple other places I noted, showing 1929 to 1932, which is not to say it could not have been assembled in '33 or '34.

The outside skins, although surface rusty, does not have one single mark, ding or dent in it at all - nothing! Taking the skins off, both clock faces are mint (the pictures below I have not even washed them) and the Aluminium bezels have only the slightest pitting on them - light enough they can just be buffed out. And here is the thing that really got me - the original factory tags for the motor being wired for 110 and not 220, along with the tag on the light fixture at the top specifying a 100w bulb (bulb was also still in the machine and worked) are still attached, and not only readable, but also in mint condition! How could these survive 79 years, even in a covered barn, and not have moisture, bugs rats or mice munch on them?! I have original tags and receipts from my 62 Impala that have been kept inside an envelope for 40+ years that are in not as good shape.

Also, the original twist tie/lock tamper thingy (not sure what they call those) like you would find installed by the utility companies on your phone or power meter outside, is still looped though what I assume is a service port/drain on the bottom of the pump housing and has never been removed.

The wiring was all still good (cloth covered aluminum) so I checked it over, wired it up, plugged it in switched the light on, and lifted the lever for the pump - and the Leland motor purred away and putting my hand under the intake, felt suction.

Maybe all you experienced pump hunters find things like this now and then, but I was expecting seized motor, rats nets wiring, rusted out guts, sides, bottom etc - I'm still happy as a kid at Christmas after I unwrapped this from it's pallet and was up until 2am just "playing" with it - Boys & Their Toys, eh?

The original Atlantic globe I purchased in the same sale, and am planing to use on this pump (maybe...,) is also in excellent condition - not a chip in the entire milk glass frame, and one face is near perfect, the other, slightly faded - must have been on the weather/sun side for a long while while the other was more protected.

I could go on, but I dont want to be that person that just had a brand new baby and thinks they are they only person in all of history to have such an amazing newborn and yack about it incessantly (can you tell I don't have kids? laugh ) so I'll post a few pics I took as I unwrapped it, and post more later as I get into the project (if I do restore it - it's so original and perfect I'm having second thoughts about restoring it)

Thanks for looking -

Aaron ~


Anyone ever picked up a pump and shoved it into the back of a BMW before? grin










Last edited by AntiquePerfectio; Fri Jun 03 2011 11:43 AM.


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Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: AntiquePerfectio] #257325
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:03 AM
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:03 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
AntiquePerfectio Offline OP
Active Member
AntiquePerfectio  Offline OP
Active Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
Looks like 10 offsite linked pictures is the max, so here are just a couple more - and that's it - for now...









Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: AntiquePerfectio] #257329
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:41 AM
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,746
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Online content
Veteran Member
K W FRITH  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,746
Devils Lake, ND---USA
Leave it just as it is! To find one in that condition is so rare that it is almost unheard of. This pump will only be in that condition, with a great story--once in its lifetime. It can always be restored buts its only original "ONCE"!!!!!


Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: K W FRITH] #257337
Fri Jun 03 2011 12:18 PM
Fri Jun 03 2011 12:18 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 858
MA
E
eric grinder Offline
Petro Enthusiast
eric grinder  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
E
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 858
MA
Nice find and great story. I know it may be hard to do but listen to KW. He's right, if you do anything to this pump other than clean it you'll be sorry down the road. It's a preserved part of our history just as it stands.


Mainly focused on Oilzum, Jenney, Harris Oil items & original paint gas pumps.
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: eric grinder] #257362
Fri Jun 03 2011 05:43 PM
Fri Jun 03 2011 05:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,436
Wellington, FLORIDA
SOUTHFLORIDAGAS Offline
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SOUTHFLORIDAGAS  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,436
Wellington, FLORIDA
What are you doing buying pumps in CT? Neat pump.


Kris Strong
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: eric grinder] #257364
Fri Jun 03 2011 05:47 PM
Fri Jun 03 2011 05:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 948
Sunbury, PA, USA
lordparaffin Offline
Petro Enthusiast
lordparaffin  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 948
Sunbury, PA, USA
Sweet looking pump and that has got to be a first.....I've never seen a pump as passenger in the back of a "Beemer"!


........Dave
___________________________________________________
Looking for old, rare, auto light bulb tins
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: lordparaffin] #257397
Fri Jun 03 2011 07:55 PM
Fri Jun 03 2011 07:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,969
Bardstown, KY USA
philmccauley Offline
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philmccauley  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,969
Bardstown, KY USA
I would leave that one alone too.


Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________
Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: philmccauley] #257401
Fri Jun 03 2011 08:34 PM
Fri Jun 03 2011 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 555
The Hawkeye State, Iowa
racecop Offline
Petro Enthusiast
racecop  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 555
The Hawkeye State, Iowa
Don't restore it. Light it up and maybe put a pump plate or sticker on it and call it good. Congrats, awesome pump.

Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: racecop] #257413
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:17 PM
Fri Jun 03 2011 11:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Dick Bennett  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
It's Your pump, do as You wish EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
1 guy turns MOST of his pumps into Cities Service [Black & White, that's gotta look like Old Photographs w/o color! LOL]. I use original parts to create fantasy Twins & some install Dummy clock faces w/o mech. in pumps that had VR computers!

Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: Dick Bennett] #257449
Sat Jun 04 2011 10:29 AM
Sat Jun 04 2011 10:29 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
AntiquePerfectio Offline OP
Active Member
AntiquePerfectio  Offline OP
Active Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
Hello All -

Thanks for all your comments. The only problem is, I agree with all of you!

KW, Eric Phil & Racecop - you are right. "restoring" something and brining it back from the scrap heap is one thing, but this pump is far, far from that point. Literally plug it in at a Gas station and it would work, and almost look, exactly like it did 78-79 years ago.

DB - I also agree with you, but since I MAY be doing this to sell, I have to consider not just what I would want, but like any marketer, what a customer would want.

I'm in a quandary with this pump. confused I buy things to "tinker" with, refurbish, bring back to life in needed, research the history, then sell and repeat. This pump is so rare and so perfect I agree, I don't want to mess with it much, but I was really looking forward to making the outside like new, graphics, paint, and polish the brass. Flip side to that is if I do offer it for sale, because it is rare and so original, and it's more of a plain style design to it, the hard core collectors that might be interested in it would be more likely to want it as is, and not all painted and polished up. Then, I'm leaning towards NOT selling it as it's such a cool piece that I could search for decades and never find another one like this in the condition it is, and what a great find for my fist pump!

I'm leaning towards right now painting the outside (skins, top and base) in the original red factory brochure color, and maybe adding the white flash Atlantic theme, or just red and keep it as an original "factory display" model. If I do that, I would look at recreating the original Penometer glass globe panels and truly make it historically right, and for sure one of a kind. I would however not touch ANYTHING else on it - not paint or touch up anything on the inside, leave all the mechanical parts as it and fully functional - dont mess with what aint broke.



I hooked up the intake line to a supply of water & antifreeze (antifreeze to help make sure the water does not rust and seize up the pump or flow meter) and it still pumps! The flow meter is not rotating the clock face shaft, so I am going to tinker with that. I believe in anything I restore from boats, to cars, to cash registers and pumps, that to have it be functional as originally designed is almost as important as keeping the originality intact and not destroying it by making it "new".

My 62 impala that was my grandfathers car has a lot of rust issues with being parked outside at the beach in san Diego the past 8 years. A body shop I took it to here wanted to order re-man fender, hood, quarter panels. I said no, I want the spots cut out, new steel shaped and welded in. Replacing 1/3 of the car with new parts would make it not the same car, even though it would be far cheaper to go that route and look the same when done.

I'll decide soon. If I'm goig to paint it, I want to start work now...

I did put together some interesting history last night on the Pennsylvania Pump Co and designer/inventor of this pumps mechanics and the design of the Penometer R42 that you see a few more of around from time to time, and what happened to the company in 1934/35. I'll document it out and put it online so this company that not much is known about has a bit historical background on it. Every little bit helps someone's research down the road, and maybe Jack will include a few more details on PPCO in his next revision....

Sorry for the excessively long posts - just working though in my head what I want to do, and I think I have a direction now. Thanks again for all your input guys - really appreciate it and love this forum.



Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: SOUTHFLORIDAGAS] #257451
Sat Jun 04 2011 10:35 AM
Sat Jun 04 2011 10:35 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
AntiquePerfectio Offline OP
Active Member
AntiquePerfectio  Offline OP
Active Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: SOUTHFLORIDAGAS
What are you doing buying pumps in CT? Neat pump.


Lol... I was wondering if I would hear about that sooner or later in the forum. Was I bidding against your absentee bid, or did you just come across the auction listing? laugh I was frustrated during the live bidding as I thought it would go for less than it took to win it as the auction listing description was severely lacking detail, and it was a totally non petrol related auction. I bought it without even knowing fully what it was then, but saw it's potential and the quality of the clock face spoke volumes about the rest of it's condition. Glad I was right - bidding blind online does not always turn out this way.

Aaron ~



Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: AntiquePerfectio] #257454
Sat Jun 04 2011 10:54 AM
Sat Jun 04 2011 10:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,681
USA
keithia Offline
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keithia  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,681
USA
I would leave that pump 100% as is inside and out. You may very well lower the value and desirablity of it by messing with it.

Keith


Drive with Care and Buy Sinclair!! I buy Sinclair globes, signs, cans, ect.
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: keithia] #257482
Sat Jun 04 2011 04:05 PM
Sat Jun 04 2011 04:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,056
Decatur, IL
Tara Worsham Offline
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Tara Worsham  Offline
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Posts: 1,056
Decatur, IL
Originally Posted By: keithia
I would leave that pump 100% as is inside and out. You may very well lower the value and desirablity of it by messing with it.

Keith


I completely agree. If you plan on selling it, don't touch a thing. It will never be original again. Just my two cents.

Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: Tara Worsham] #257505
Sat Jun 04 2011 06:22 PM
Sat Jun 04 2011 06:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,969
Bardstown, KY USA
philmccauley Offline
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philmccauley  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,969
Bardstown, KY USA
Just sell it to me and let me worry about it.


Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________
Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: Tara Worsham] #257506
Sat Jun 04 2011 06:35 PM
Sat Jun 04 2011 06:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Dick Bennett  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Painting the outside will not de-value the originality of the way it was found. IF it had been found w/ readable decals & patina, then yes it could lower the value.

The artist pictures used for the different brochures of pump companies doesn't necessarily mean that all companies HAD their own Globes. Very few used their own globe style lettering for GASOLINE/GASOLENE [Guarantee, G&B, Bowser, Wayne, Clear Vision, etc].

Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: Dick Bennett] #257580
Sun Jun 05 2011 11:01 AM
Sun Jun 05 2011 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 506
clio, michigan usa
R
r49th Offline
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r49th  Offline
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R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 506
clio, michigan usa
Another possibility to look at is if you really want to work on this pump, but don't know if you will keep it, is to get it to the primer stage and then decide what you want to do. If you want to sell, sell it un finished and the buyer can either have you finish it to their choice or finish it theirself. Once you paint a pump in a particular color(s) and make it a certain brand, you may have eliminated several potential buyers.
Most people that will come around and see your pump are not into gas pumps. If you leave it as is you will forever be asked why you don't "fix it up".


ROD [Mich.]
Re: Pennsylvania Pump Co Penometer 41 clock face Resto [Re: Dick Bennett] #257814
Tue Jun 07 2011 01:34 PM
Tue Jun 07 2011 01:34 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin
AntiquePerfectio Offline OP
Active Member
AntiquePerfectio  Offline OP
Active Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 53
Wisconsin

On this one I agree with DB - since it has no exterior paint left on it other than a tiny spot in the top corner of one skin, and it has no trace or echo, or any indication it was ever used retail and had any brand identity on it. I don't think finishing the exterior in skins Red, the top and base black, just like in the marketing materials, would be destroying any of it's original "historical value". In terms of monetary value, well, it may be worth more to some people in it's surface rust finish, and more to others shiny and pretty on the outside. If I do paint it, the interior will not be touched, I'll even tape off and cover the insides of the skins to preserve the original factory brownish/red primer that is still 99% perfect. Same with the inside silver paint still in great shape on the inside of the cast top. If it had original paint, color, decals - even a small amount left (or ever even there) I would 100% leave it for sure, as those things tell the story of it's history. I just don't think a micro layer of surface rust covering 100% of the exterior tell much of it's story, except that it was protected and well take care of for the last 78 years.

Plus I, personally, like the idea of dressing it up to display the story of the Pennsylvania Pump Co and the short lived Penometer brand. I know "Penometer" globe lenses likely never existed, other than as a drawing in a marketing piece, but I think creating a pair would be the perfect topper on this pump from a scare, little known company and make it tell a different story from the typical restored pump being something that displays what the Gas Co.'s marketing and branding teams used to promote their brand over another. From my research so far, some of the history of the Penn. Pump Co. is interesting to know, for example:

The inventor of the flow meter in my pump was very prolofic in his carrer with patents dating to the early 1920's and all the way though 1969/1970 for making flow and gas meters for another Pennsylvania based company that he worked for after Pennsylvania Pump Co drops off the map in the mid 1930's, and that company still exists today. In fact, if you live in a house that's 30+ years old or so, there is a good chance that the internal mechanics of the gas meter on the exterior of your house were, in part, designed by the same fellow that designed the Model 41 & R2 model Penometer pumps in 1929-1932. I know the meter on my 60 year old house here in Wisconsin (meter is obviously not that old) has some internal components based on the the patent numbers that were invented and filed by the same fellow that designed my 80 year old gas pump! The inventors name, unlike Westinghouse or Edison, his is not a well known name, but every man, women and child in this country has likely, at one point, used one of the products or components he designed over the last 70 years. I think connections like that are kinda cool to find, and my pump is going to tell those stories.

Ha!! - notice in all that I'm going from "selling" and "value" to "My pump" at the end... Guess that kinda decides it for me for now - it may have found a permanent home, at least until I fall in love with something else.


Someday soon I put online in it's own post the history and heritage I've dug up on the Penn. Pump. Co. and some of it's internal components, but as it might connect to your residential gas meter, here are the details:

If you have an older residential gas meter model, the most common being a R-200 & R-245 household gas meter, or a meter made by the company as it operated under it's various trade names and merger names in it's long 120+ year long history, it likely has parts in in designed by the maker of the much of the internals on the Penometer's (and I'm sure other makes of pumps as well) : Name history going backwards in time: Sensus, Invensys (as my meter is branded), Equimeter, Rockwell International, Rockwell Manufacturing, Equitable Meter/National Meter Company, and as it was known in late 1920's: Pittsburgh Equitable Meter Company, EMCO, Equitable Meter and Manufacturing Company, and going back to 1895: Pittsburgh Meter Company, and finally, 1886 The Safety Appliance Company, which was started by George Westinghouse, whose name you might also recognize as creating, among other things, our national grid of AC, Nikola Tesla, based power system over Thomas Edison's DC based system.


Aaron ~



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