Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Gas shows ......are they losing ground?

After reading comments about the Iowa show...and my experiences at Columubus and Dayton show...it appears the gas shows are losing steam.

Do you think it's temporary, cyclic, or only going to get worse?

I don't think the gas shows are going to go away comletely..it's a great way to connect with friends in the hobbby. But I'm wondering that if in this economy and culture the gas show is becoming obsolete?

Is it because inventory is getting harder to find for the vendors? Or the expense of the show for all involved?

Just curious what others think about it.

This is going to be a good topic. I should not have started that can of worms where I did, it should have been started in its own topic here.

My observations is that the quality of items at shows is dropping off as well as attendance. This was the first year at Iowa that I did not see a "frenzy" on Wednesday morning. I dont know what the answer is, but I dont think it is going to get better any time soon. I think many of the older collectors are either too old to go or are gone and I dont think the younger (or working class) collector can afford to go.

From comments I hear from spectators, especially younger newcomers, is that prices at the shows are "High" and "I can buy it on ebay for less". That along with their knowledge of vendors setting up the day before the public gets in, therefore all the "Good Deals" are gone before the start of the show. Us collectors have made it what it is with all the "secret" deals, starting shows mid-week, etc. Pricing, is what it is, we do know what we have sold stuff for and what we can get for it, The newcomers do not understand that and think we are just outrageously high, We have been here for many years and know the hobby.

On the other hand, the only people that seem to enjoy these shows are the seasoned showgoers who have met friends thru the years and enjoy the social event of re-uniting with old friends and trading signs in private. these same people would have the same great time whether there were 10 buyers or 1000 buyers.

I don't ever see it coming back the way it was, Collecting today is NOTHING like it was 10-20 years ago. Just a sign of the times.

You are certainly correct in your statement KZ. I went twice, Long trip from Portland Oregon and its too costly now for gas and the good deals are done ahead of time. If I need something I can just go to the computer to help find it without the days lost and money to get there.

The stuff is high and as I have said before, at gas shows most people know what things are worth and many collectors are looking to find that item that comes in where it is underpriced and they can get it before any other.

Sure it is nice to see some of the others, but it also is getting clickish. Alot easier to just see what is available from others on the computer and here.

The younger people have less time it seems and more items pulling them in different directions than was lets say thirty years ago.

Would I go to Iowa again, probably not, for if just a weekend deal maybe. Everyone seems to want to get there earlier and earlier to get the deal 1st. I remember saturday morning, it felt funny to see everything just go away and you were left with the thought that I didn't have enough money and would have liked to have bought things ahead as everyone else seemed to do.

Just my thoughts

I was going to write something, but Craig and KZ said it all so I'll just bullet point why "I" think things are dropping off.

* gas is too costly to drive a great distant
* Early entry usually means the good deals are gone for the masses
* Window shopping is much easier on the computer
* Cheaper prices on the internet on the common stuff, usually
* The rarer items will go through auctions, either live or internet
* There's just fewer collectors now

That being said, I still like shows, but certainly limit those that I go to now mainly becuase gas is just too damn expensive to drive 100 miles to get there anymore.

JM2C

i have to agree that the iowa show is not what it was even 4 years ago when i started going.no where even close.i hear the stories from some of the guys who went a long time ago when the show spilled over to the next parking lot.room to room was way down,both sellers and buyers.and as ryan said,didnt see it outside either.that said,i still enjoyed it and got some stuff for my small collection.as with all things,change does come,weather it is for the better or not.all we can do is see what the future brings,and hope for the best.

Im going to throw this out there... Why is the Peotone show doing just as well as it ever has?

Is it because they dont let you in until Saturday at noon? Is it because the auction is before the show? Is it because it is on the weekend? That show always seems to have alot of foot trafic.


One more thing. Any vendors want to REALLY tell the story? Did you sell good or just do OK?

I can tell you that I left with quite a bit of spending money left as there just was not much there I wanted to buy.

My brother did great selling at the show, he even sold all of his sheep signs. I had a great time buying at the show. I ended up with two globes, had a couple signs delivered to the show and got a couple more and a bunch of cans. Did some trading and got more stuff. The stuff is getting harder to find and a lot of it is being stashed away in collections so the amount of stuff for sale would naturally drop off. Plus I think when most big collections do get broken up they get sent to the auction instead of get being pieced out on the show field. A natural progresion of the hobby?

I've never been to a gas show.I really admire you Calif.guys for driving that far;I just can't bring myself to do it.

But I do always look at the pics posted,thanks guys.What struck me as I looked at the pics was how many non-petro signs there were.From what was posted there seemed to be lots of them.This is the first time I can remember seeing only a couple of signs I was interested in.

I wonder why that is.Is the gas stuff getting so expensive that collectors/vendors are moving into less costly items?Were the non-petro signs reasonably priced relative to the petro stuff?Or,maybe,as noted the good stuff is moving in private deals.Just my observation.

Spring Dixie being my 1st show, I was wondering if shows was as strong in attendance as years past. I was there early bird, and did see many items gone before the normal monday through friday guy even had a chance to get there.What I was disapointed in was the amount of smalls, mainly cans there wasn't much there. Just a few guys had lots of good collectable,sought after cans,just wondering and its all ready been touched on if ebay has not become a more used tool for dealers to sell these items.
A lot of us, speaking for my self can't afford large ticket items , so if the small items gets sucked up by the ebay craze I can see attendance suffering.

1 more thing I meant to add to my post was something that I and a few others are guilty of; That is there are too many shows now so everything gets spread out.
In Hindsight, I wish I never helped start Mass Gas Bash over 15 years ago, what seemed fun at the time really was a start of destroying the couple big shows that were already held at the time, Iowa for one. Maybe we can band together and have 3 BIG shows only, East coast, West coast, Iowa. with no selling in between or ebaying. (wishful thinking)

The last show I attended was Columbus 2011. I remember that show in the mid 90s was much larger..This hobby like any other now days ( with vintage or antique collectables)are getting much smaller because of the internet,and cost of items have shot up alot. Like a common Fire Chief sign in great shape c.1950s where 40 bucks then.. Compared to 125+ now.... people just arent spending alot on stuff like this right now. and I also think the younger generation dont remember gas stations and oil brands like us older folks.(Check the oil ,clean the windshield, Free set of tumblers with purchase Generation) I am now down off the soapbox... Thanks gang !!

Iowa Gas was my first gas show. After TRYING to make several Deals. I was in fact disappointed in the prices and the lack of negotiation. Unfortunatly, Ebay is cheaper way to Buy. Most of the vendors although very nice people are way to proud of their items. I'm sure they took alot home with them. I seen several items priced double of what they go for on ebay! Also, over heard several people walking around complaining about the prices.
In a time when cash is hard to come by the prices at the show were ridiculous. I did have a good time but wouldn't make the 5 hour drive again.I'll give peotone a try in the fall. Hopefully, find some better prices.

This all goes back to the times when no matter what we put on for a price the items would sell, I would, several times, put 3 times what something was worth so I could show off a piece and bring it home, only to have someone pay the price.
For many of us that have been thru this, it is hard to break from those days.
For the newcomers that think the prices are high, you had to live those times to see where we are coming from.

I do not go to the shows due to A. Cost of getting to most of them. B. Deals Under the Table C. I do not mind paying a fair price for hard to find stuff-but why should I pay retail for common items when I can find them local or on ebay for substantially less? KZ you have many valid points and us young collectors "think" the stuff is to expensive. Just because the older collectors paid a high price does not mean "we" have to pay those prices. Items are only worth what the market brings! If there is less demand prices will fall- and supply is also relevant. A few months back I was at a collectors house who has overpaid and bought most of his items at the TOP of the Gas and oil market. He knew he overpaid and took a loss on some stuff he had. If it was more affordable to go and buy at the shows-I would go just to meet all the great people on this site and buy items.. Like I said in previous posts- Who is gonna want this stuff when the older collectors are not here? People of my generation could give less about gas and oil items. If you bought a stock at it's peak and the price falls why should I pay you what you paid? These gas items are only worth what something is willing to pay as with almost every other item today. With the way the economy is-this stuff can become worthless overnight. I like this hobby for the items not the money-but it is getting to the point that some of this stuff is not affordable and takes away from the fun.

Well said, and that is what I am thinking will happen in the future.

I think this stuff will always be collectible in some way. In the past I have said this before I do not remember globes on pumps a gas station attendant or any of it, but man I love globes. I think what will carry this on will be our kids remembering we liked it for some reason or another. As far as the shows go I think they are down but I believe it has a lot to do with disposable income. Many people just dont have it like they use to. Take me for instance a few years ago when you would see me at a show it was nothing to see me buy up to seven globes at one time. I can not do that now. I also believe you should go to the shows if you can there is a wealth of knowledge there. Some may say its clickish i have not seen that side of it.I have always had a great time at the shows and always met some new friends along the way. As far as deals being done before the general public gets there it happens but you also have to remember that some things were sold long before the show and people are just picking it up there. I will also agree that some are very proud of there prices but there are those who are willing to deal. I bought a globe on the last day of Iowa last year and i watched Jarvis buy one at CTO this year as we were pulling out of the parking lot he said stop let see if I can buy that globe. I hope shows dont end they are a lot of fun.

I don't have the time, but mostly donn't have the money.

In a few years, how many chinese yuan will your stuff be worth?

like the way shawn put it.have to wonder about "clickish"when i first went to a show,i wandered around ,with out a clue as to who anyone was,or what things were worth.in just a few years,i go to a show,and i get"hey mick!how are ya?" from a lot of people.some of these guys are just average buyers like me,and some of them are the biggest buyers out there.most all are great people,and always have a few minutes to help me when i am not sure of an item.i have told many friends that i have met the friendliest people in this hobby.to me its a big part of going to shows,but then i usually go to peotone,an hour and a half away and iowa.guess that comes down to one of the reasons that i stayed in this hobby as long as i did.maybe in a number of years,i will be forgotten and will forget some.but i have also made some friendships that i think will last a long time.those are priceless!just another reason that i hope the shows continue and i am also able to attend as many as i can.

Mick,

Your clock is going way too fast ... Before you know it, the IOWA GAS will arrive again and your pockets are empty

Shawn, you are correct about petroliana shows being great source for learning about the hobby. I have learned so much
about the hobby since I got interested in 2005. I have attended only 3 bashes so far & have met some great folks that are willing
to teach & share information with you. I am always prepared with a list of specific questions before I get to a show.

I hope shows will always be there!

57tbird,
No problem with what you said, just would like to ask a question. What do you mean by "Deals Under the Table?"

Jack Sim

pre -sales and sells before the john -q pubic gets to show. I think that is the norm in any collecting,dealer groups. Its done at gun shows, flee markets,etc. My father sold refurbished antiques (furniture), back in late 60s and 70s. We would load up two loads on friday afternoon and head to local fairgrounds for once a month fleemarket. It was not uncommon for dealer with 3 ring check book to walk up and buy half of what we brought before we got unloaded and sat up. And there was a lot of sells between friends that had sat up there for years. That doesn't bother me at all. There was a lot of presales here on old gas, well if its going to the show, I think its great that oldgas members gets a chance at it here first. I learned one thing at 1st show, if you see it on 1st pass and you want it you better buy it, I had x amount of dollars to spend, so I'm going to make fast sweep and buy on 2nd pass. 2nd pass it was gone. Lesson learned.
I think the state of or country as a whole has had major inpact on attendance, and spending. I'm not well versed on petro collectables, but since I've got in to this I've started hitting shops around town and prices are pretty well back to what my father got for items back in late 70s. Full suites that a still in tack have doubled, but single pieces are about same, in some cases cheaper.

This was only my 2nd year going to Iowa gas.I left with a pretty good haul but did I save money over Ebay?Maybe,mabye not.Hotel,travel costs add up but so does shipping on bigger items which I happened to buy.The people,its the people & being able to touch & actually see what you're buying that will have me coming back hopefully for years to come.Had a great time,met a few new people & got some leads on a pole sign or 2.Hopefully good Lord willing see you all next year!!!

Great thoughts everyone. A few observations after almost 25 years at Iowa and other various shows. If you want the rare, the dead mint, the unusual - and maybe even a bargain - BE THERE (first and foremost) AND get there early. Yes, this stinks at IA due to their unusual mid-week schedule. As for "under the table" or pre-arranged deals - to me this means you've worked hard for a long time to make good friends and/or good "connections" so you can find or even have people contact you with what you are really looking for. Nothing wrong with that!

As for prices - yes, they may be high at gas shows - because there is a lot of great stuff there - and great stuff doesn't usually come cheap or easy. Will you see all the same stuff on ebay - doubt it - maybe if you are VERY patient. Will you pay less? Maybe/maybe not. However, as an occassional ebay seller I can tell you the combination of rising feeBay fees, paypal fees, credit card fees, and shipping fees makes me think twice about listing a higher end item. The sellers asking "high" prices at gas shows are due a small premium in my eyes. These collectors (I would say most at IA/Columbus are collectors in addition to be sellers) have knowledge, experience, and ability to dig up the "good stuff". They also have costs to travel, eat, set up and vend at these shows so buyers can pick the item up and hold it in their hands before buying.

Sure there will be fluctuations with market - supply and demand, etc. I also agree with several previous posts that a lot of "lower prices" pricing now has to do with the current state of our country and the gloomy outlook for the future, or in other words the lack of money in pocket and/or willingness to part with it.

All in all, love the shows whenever I can make them. Always great to see old friends and hope to make new ones; get rid of a few things and add a few more new ones. Happy collecting everyone.

The quality of the stuff at the shows(from the pictures I see ) looks to be far superior to most of the stuff on ebay. I do not purchase a lot of signs on ebay- but purchase some smalls. The rare type items show up once in a while on ebay and usually sell for much more then they are worth in my opinion+ the quality is usually not so great. Deals under the table happen in every hobby as Loyd stated. If the hobby is at a weak point, maybe a few shows would be enough and make them at a conveintient time.

I thought there were some great items at Iowa this year, but overall I thought the quality was much less than in previous years. It seems the quality of items goes down each year. I wonder what it is going to be like in 5 or 10 years.

Signs&Neons you are exactly right on the connections thing. A lot of the stuff I own is because of the connections that I have made through this site and the gas shows,that is something eBay can not offer.

Being my first event ever (Iowa Gas) I have to admit I was a little disappointed as well. But I think that is because its a pretty well hyped event. The event is/was advertised as Wed - Friday. So I got there Thursday at noon. When I got there I'd say about a little less than half the outside vendors were gone and a majority of the rest were packing up. I heard some of it was due to the rain but after talking with a few others it sounds like the weather really didn't have much to do with it. Sounds like this is that way it is pretty much goes every year. Everyone kept telling me if I want to see anything I've got to be there Tuesday. I felt kind of bad aksing to look at stuff when it seemed like they just wanted get packed up. Also with a lot of people packed up I didn't get the opportunity to wander around and meet some of the people from Old Gas I wanted to meet. That being said I did have a good experience. I felt like Mick's first event as I wandered around and didn't know anybody except Keithia which I had met previously this past March. I did introduce myself to DB, Paddy, Tom Buckles and Kevin Frith (dude your wife is hot!) but I wish could have met more (Tom Buckle's idea of a Old Gas member sign is a great idea for us newbies). But I did meet a few folks and will build on that. As someone who is an avid e-bay user, I'd say the prices at times were higher than e-bay but I'd say the quality was better. But I'd also say they were a lot less than an antique mall and way better quality. I was able to deal on a few items (not my intent to be that late Thursday bottom feeder but that's all I had) so I felt I did ok. Overall I'd say it was a positive experience with some room to grow.

we got in Tuesday around 7pm and it looked like it had been going strong all day long. Majority of vendors in place, tents set up, etc. We did room hopping that eve- and it was hit and miss. Quite a few rooms open. Wednesday morning about 6 the show got going and was over for me as a buyer by 8, and as a seller by noon. We went home around 3 that afternoon. Sure would be great to get in Thurs eve, one solid day of swap Friday, Auction Saturday and home at a decent time on Sunday.

I had a great time for my first show ever! I came home with a couple 48 inch DSP that I had been searching for and a couple of smaller porcelain.Some of the auction items were killer and a good variety,but prpbably most out of my range.I met some nice people and all were very friendly and helpful.The few items I brought for room to room,sold quickly.Nothing ever really stays the same and markets will always cycle.Older collectors have seen the cycle,but we all hang in there looking for the next rare find.I will be back next year,good Lord willing!

I wasn't able to go to the show. I'm fairly new to all of this. Everyone has made good points. Something I didn't see anyone say and I could most certainly be wrong. Are the prices high and not a lot to choose from be because "WE" as collectors have bought just about everything that there is? Only so much of this stuff was made and only so much has survived. A few weeks ago I met a guy that told me he use to haul scrap metal for a living and that back in day the he personaly cut up 500 banjo poles to hall off for scrap. He told me that knowing what he knows now he wished he had kept them. IDK JM2C...

I had good luck at the show this year. I bought three nice signs that I could have never found in the antique malls.

I've been going almost every year for the past 15 or so. Some of my best signs and clocks came from Iowa Gas.

I think we all get a little spoiled. Where else can you go and see thousands of NICE, OLD, signs, maps, clocks, neons, pumps, etc.... in one long weekend? Part of the problem with a show like this - we have sooooooo many choices. Too many NICE items to pass on trying to decide if you are going to spend your $'s on a killer pump, a light up clock, or a dealership neon sign.

It's all fun.

One of the main changes I have seen due to ebay in the last 10 years or so is there is no pent up demand to buy things. Pre-ebay you only had a few chances a year to shop the big shows with the large selection of items. This is the case in all collectible areas. My wife and I used to save her paychecks to to go shop the Indy ad show in the late 1980's. You can shop from home everyday to add to your collection. I have never been to Iowa because I could not be there early in the week. As far as prices go I have always felt that the only way to have an inventory of great items is to have your prices a little higher. If you price your things under top retail they sell quickly. Faster than you can find new items to replace the sold inventory. I always go to shop trying to sell thing not have museum.

I plan all year to attend IG even through work has been very slow or non-existent this year [no job last 2 months before IG]. I enjoy picking & stopping at Friends on the way to/from & at the show. Heat & Humidity has hurt the older collectors at IG alot. I'd bet attendance would increase 4X if they would move to a cooler month.
[Move Peotone to July/August & watch the attendance drop to 1/4th.]

How many of the above posters have Never been to any Gas Show?

Uh oh!, he's back.....

Seems to me we have in Oldgas an excellent way to provide feedback to the Iowa Gas promoters. A couple of properly constructed surveys could give them valuable information to help improve both vender and buyer turnout for future shows. They certainly have a vested financial interest in getting more vendors and buyers to the show and auction, and if "tweeking" the schedule could do that, I'd think they'd be interested in knowing. Moving to another time of year may not be possible, but some other changes might be doable. Of course, someone smarter than me would need to set up the surveys. JMO

Richard

Peotone and Columbus are the two shows which I attend. It was difficult to get the time off to go to Columbus, and it's probably impossible to get time off for both given many peoples' job constraints.
I imagine that the rent is cheaper during the week, right? Honestly, if the timing for all was handled the way Peotone is, we'd get to more gas shows.
Given the economy and the uncertainty many have about their jobs, something F-S-S would be a lot more attractive.

^^^

I think timing is an issue. Unless you make some sort of a vacation out of it..most people are going to have difficulty making a show that starts on Tuesday.

Although...the Columbus show starts late in the week and I've seen the vendor count drop significantly the last three years running.

How about the Hershey and Carlisle shows...are they staying as strong as Peotone?

Hershey and Carlisle has also dropped dramatically in vendors and sales, Sunday only shows have also dropped dramatically, It is more the fact that Gas Shows and Auto swap meets are everywhere, anytime. There are just too many that it is not such a big deal anymore waiting for just one. It is not just the economy.

Great Idea Richard - Jim or one of the moderators can you please set up a survey for Old Gas members that could be forwarded to show promoters? Be sure to give several options on schedule layout so all the bases are covered. I think that could be a useful tool!
thanks

Might as well set up a survey to send to Hershey and Carlisle promoters to change their setup/sell dates to Saturday & Sunday ONLY. Bet they will get a good laugh out of it!
IG promoters need a day or 2 to rest before going back to work on Monday.