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#320010 Thu Apr 19 2012 06:41 AM
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I understand the wisdom of leaving the pump and other heavy internal parts in a visible pump to provide stability. What about an electric pump? I am doing a couple of M&S pumps and I am planning to take out the heavy parts and just leave the parts that will be seen from the outside. Is that a mistake?

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Doc

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Simple answer....No...more complicated answers will follow. smile

Jim

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When restoring a pump for a customer, I always let them make that choice but for me I remove the inners on the electric pumps.
They always are easier to move around and I figure if it's not going to be used to pump gas again why leave it there cause you cannot see it anyway. I do have a MS 80 thats outside in front of one of my buildings that still has all it's inners in it. I left it completed for two reasons, one because the farmer I bought it from had power washed all the inners and painted them silver and then put the skins back on and brush painted it red so it's a good looking original. And the second reason if anyone ever wanted to steal it, they better bring a number of friends to lift it!!!
Choice is still yours and once it's restored, I don't think anyone will care either way.

Mike Matteson


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Mike

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I take them out. But, if I was displaying one outside, I would leave them in, even though that won't deter someone from stealing it. If I can load a pump by myself with the guts in then anyone can. You definitely want to secure it with m ore than the weight.


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I always gut electric pumps out. As a bonus, you will get about $30-$40.00 for the scrap cast iron, copper, brass and aluminum.


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I say leave em alone,especially if your speculating that the next owner doesn't want them in.
I'll easily pay more then $30-$40 to obtain the original lower guts inside my pump today.And easily walk away from one that doesn't,to one that does.
In general,pumps came 2 ways,with lower intestines/pump/valves intact to pump the gas directly out of the ground.
Or remote,meaning the were nearly empty down below with just a valve & intestine and had a line running to a motor/pump stored elsewhere.Either way,whatevers down below,should be left in.
If your pump was one of the few that had all the valves,intestines & motor installed below,feel fortunate and privileged,as they all didn't.
Too many people have been gutting pumps,due to smell & weight alone,and not realizing they are not helping the hobby,just their lower backs.
If being stored outside,they do help weigh it down during a tornado,and detour theft too,not to mention it shows them in their true working armour.
Guts won't help prevent a pump from being stolen if a thief is really determined,but they sure make it more difficult & time consuming for him to take,and the get away that much more slower.
Leave em in and make him go after one w/o the guts further down the street.God knows they're out there..Pumps w/o guts today,easily exceed the ones with.
10 years ago,no one was saving/restoring modern day electric pumps..now look where we are.
10 years from now,there will be a section on this website titled,"Show us your pump guts".

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Nope. They always stink and leak. They will leak onto your floor, ruining your carpet or tile. You will not believe how much dirty fuel comes out as you gut the pump. In my experience, no matter how long a pump has been out of service they ALWAYS have fuel trapped inside them.

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I can relate to the smell issue. One of my pumps came from Minnesota and I brought it home in the back of a P3 Orion airplane. When we got back to California on final approach in a thunderstorm, we smelled a strong gas smell. When I looked back, the entire inside of the airplane was wet with very old and bad smelling gas. I was sure that it was completely empty before I put it in the airplane. Boy was I wrong! Fortunately, there were no sparks. Thanks again for all of the great advice. I am leaning toward taking the inside stuff out of my pumps.

Thanks,

Doc

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I do not like having the guts in them. All my pumps that have easy opening doors are used for storage. Some have shelves added. It works out nice when space is limited.


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Quote:
No...more complicated answers will follow

smile

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I want my pumps with the guts.

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Leave the guts in them.


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I really suppose this is a toss-up issue that could be debated indefinitely. I cant tell you how many times I've had a 50's Bennett or Tokheim gush out a few gallons of nasty smelling red fuel everywhere and I was real happy to kiss those guts goodbye. However, I've also had pumps on the rare side that will say "Milestone" or "American Pump & Tank Company" written in the cast iron and I never pitch that stuff! I just make sure the insides are drained/flushed out, then sandblasted and painted a dull black. MMatteson is right, I let my customers decide. If its going in a showroom or dealership, they come out. I don't wanna be responsible or held liable for a ruined floor. Goober

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All of my pumps except visibles are gutted wheather they are in the house or in the yard . Mainly because i move them around often and it makes them alot easier to move but thats just me.

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I restored a Tok. 39 lo boy , and painstakingly restored the guts, people like the short history lesson on how they use to work, when i show them the pump. i weighed each part putting it back together and i think it is 435 lbs or 465 something like that. (and no, it doesn't smell like gas anymore) I've only had to move it once , but when i did i disassembled it all. Because your much more likely to damage a restored pump if its 400+ lbs. My other 1940-50's pumps i stripped them to the bone. for reasons stated above. So, I would say keep one with the guts and strip the rest in your colection. I show people the inside of the 39 and the rest of the pumps they don't ask (or probably don't care) to see in the inside of the others. i just say the other pumps are empty and that doesn't seem to bother them. besides they all used pretty much the same guts.

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Thanks again for all of the advice. The pumps in question are M&S 80's. They do not seem to be rare or unusual. I plan to display them indoors and I would like to be able to move them from time to time. I think that I will remove the guts and package them up in case I ever decide to put them back in. If I find that I don't want to put everything back, I can sell the scrap metal.

Thanks again,

Doc

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I have 4 pumps all with their guts still intact,inside my home.
I took the guts out and flushed out what little gas was left.
Sprayed oven cleaner on each part,rinsed off,wiped off and reinstalled.It took me 4 days to do this to all 4 pumps.
Today they are in my home,smell and gas free.
I then built a wooden dolly with steel casters,for each pump.
No mess,no smell,no problem pushing around,if need be.
You have the right idea.Save them aside at the very least.
You can always take the guts out,but you can't put them back in if they're tossed away.













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Sits 3" higher but as sturdy as ever.


Last edited by coldpizza; Fri Apr 20 2012 08:11 AM.
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Take them out, especially if you put it in doors!!! Who wants to live with the smell of old leaded gas?
If you sell it later down the road, "I WOULD GUESS" their would be less than 1% of the BUYERS for a restored pump that would want the pumps in. If you put it out side just anchor it down.


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Do you have a rider on your home insurance that allows you to store gas pumps indoors with trace amounts of gasoline? It's all, an insurance company would need to deny a claim because you breached terms of your house insurance. Even upon review; I don't think any arbitrator would rule that it is prudent to store gas pumps with trace amounts of gasoline indoors within a dwelling structure.

Why create that headache for yourself?

I don't think gutting a pump takes away any value or collectability away from a pump.


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coldpizza, that blender pump most weigh, 600+ lbs ?

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It's under 400 lbs..Closer to 300 I think..I weighed it once,but cant recall exactly.

What headache?
There are no trace amounts of gasoline.I took my time & cleaned/rinsed it out very well.There is no gas or smell coming from it.
State Farm came out to do an appraisal on 2 antique cars I had back then.They saw the pumps,and walked right by.
I asked them if they are concerned it could be a fire hazard.Agent took one look and said not at all,can't smell a thing.
I then called him back over & opened up the lower panels to show him anyway.He said he sees no threat what so ever.
I even lit a match for him and put it up close to the internals...nothing.
Said it won't effect my homeowners policy at all..."Neat pump".

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How a broker (salesman wanting to sell you a policy) views something is much different then an adjuster (bean counter looking after the companies best interest). I would get a clause added to the policy for your own protection and peace of mind.


Dave GILL,
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It was the owner of the actual Insurance Co. who visited my home that day,14 years ago.They're still insuring me today.
Also our local Fire dept.inspects these neighborhood homes annually every July.I'm known as the guy with the pumps..lol
My mind is peaceful.

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Originally Posted By: Dave's Garage
How a broker (salesman wanting to sell you a policy) views something is much different then an adjuster (bean counter looking after the companies best interest). I would get a clause added to the policy for your own protection and peace of mind.


Dave's right. It doesn't matter what the broker or the owner of the agency, the fire department or anyone else says. It is up to the adjuster and the home office. I had a claim (national company) and I disagreed with them and the sales rep (insurance business owner) said they couldn't help and it was up to the adjuster. I am sure you are probably at mimimal risk.....but it wouldn't hurt to ask the claims people.

Last edited by Alex; Fri Apr 20 2012 09:41 AM.

Alex
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I did that,once he left back then,and called Bloomington Il.(The Home office),on an unrelated matter.
They said it wasn't an issue,as Robert,(the owner) saw em in person & said it wasn't an issue then,so it wasn't with them either.
I even sent them pics years later,once the internet became popular,via email.
Their response was the same.

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Dave you have a excellent point!!!
Regardless as to what ANYONE say's, just for that reason alone I would not have them in the house.

Besides it cant be good for people to breath that nasty old gas, even if you can't smell it, that doesn’t mean its not in the air that your family is breathing.
Why would you even chance it on either reason the guts have no value.


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added photo

2012-04-22 16.18.21.jpg
the inside of my 39 lo boy(in my garage) i cleaned and repainted the parts and even caulked the pump shut, and used new bolts (doesn't smell of gas)

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used new bolts too

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used new bolts too

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WoW , added my 1st photo on oldgas, by myself, (after a few attempts , of coarse) .....

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Very Nice job.

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Here's the internals in my Tokheim 36 with the glass top.
I haven't done any cleaning on them..... this is the way the pump was when I got it. I don't think I'll be taking them out. Like some say on here...... "they're only original once"....... I guess you could put me in the collector and not a decorator classification.






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