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#326266 - Tue May 15 2012 10:46 PM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: gmstuff]
Signs&Neons Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jul 25 2010
Loc: Midwest
I agree with GMstuff and Porcelain-Neon - I see several signs that don't look quite right.... but in collections of this size, that is not uncommon today.

Fantasy? to me that means totally make believe - a figment of someone's imagination. A design or mark that never existed (i.e. - The Disney Mojave Oil Globes). Some signs in this collection may be such?, but I would say most are not. Likely many good original signs with neon added, and of course also many great original porcelain neon signs.

I would have to disagree with gulfiend - IMO an original sign that's neoned is not ruined. In most cases it's worth more neoned than not. Also, it makes a killer sign out of an average one in many instances. BUT, a person has to be educated enough to know what they are buying, and pay accordingly. A punched/drilled/ruined (whatever you choose to call it) sign is never worth as much as a true ORIGINAL porcelain neon sign of the same design.

No matter how you slice it- it's an amazing and beautiful collection. I agree with Dave that Mr. Dingman's knowledge of and appreciation for the signs and cars and the artists and craftsmen who created both is most admirable.

Just my 3 cents, thanks!

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#326338 - Wed May 16 2012 09:49 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: Signs&Neons]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...drilling multiple holes in the face of an original sign in order to add neon (and mark it up considerably) only adds value to the sign in Bizarro world...'me drill holes in original sign to make it more valuable'...

...how could deliberately degrading the condition of an original sign make the sign worth more??

...original neon signs are expensive and hard to come by, so neon guys figured out long ago that they could take much less expensive signs, add a can and new neon, and sell them to those who don't know (or don't care) for big bucks...'oh, yeah - that's an old, original sign - only the can and neon are new'...where have we heard that before?
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#326468 - Wed May 16 2012 10:01 PM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: gulfiend!]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
I agree with Neon & Signs that an original sign with neon added to it will fetch more money then that very same sign without neon added.

It's just a fact of this great hobby. I'm not saying that it's right or that I would go out and do it. I could never ruin a nice original sign simply for money or net profit. I collect petroliana because I appreciate originality and want to preserve the past.....not alter it.

Whose right or wrong, who I agree with or don't, doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. What counts is that this hobby is growing in terms of interest and demand. Our collections are worth more than what we have invested in them and they are continuing to appreciate in value. You can't say that about very many commodities in this current economy. EVERYBODY has contributed or played a role in this expansion of our hobby. Whether we agree with them or not.

I for one, collect what I like, pay what I'm comfortable paying (I never care or worry about value), and appreciate everyone's right to do the same. Be it fantasy signs, repro's or pink elephants, who cares? I'm having fun and if they're having fun, then it's a win, win situation for everyone.
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#326479 - Wed May 16 2012 10:39 PM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: Dave's Garage]
Signs&Neons Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jul 25 2010
Loc: Midwest
very well said Dave - it's all about a good time! Cool old stuff and many great people along the way. An old friend once told me, there's an a$$ for every seat. Some like old, some like new. Others don't care if it's old or new as long as it makes the garage, shop, game room, office look cool. Budgets play a big factor too. Bottom line, enjoy it however you like!

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#326524 - Thu May 17 2012 07:15 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: Signs&Neons]
roger cherry Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jul 04 2002
Loc: Collierville, Tn
I agree with the two above posts all the way, however, I do believe it is incomebant on all of us as collectors, dealers, or decorators to be forthcoming and honest when selling a punched sign to make sure we tell the buying party what has actually been done to the sign. Honest selling techniques may not always net the dealer the most profit, but it preserves his character and does NOT leave a bad taste in the guys mouth that bought the sign. Dealers want to make a profit, buyers usually want a good deal. There is space to meet in the middle. Just my 2 cents too. :-)

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#326531 - Thu May 17 2012 08:29 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: Signs&Neons]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Signs&Neons
very well said Dave - it's all about a good time! Cool old stuff and many great people along the way. An old friend once told me, there's an a$$ for every seat. Some like old, some like new. Others don't care if it's old or new as long as it makes the garage, shop, game room, office look cool. Budgets play a big factor too. Bottom line, enjoy it however you like!


...that sounds more like someone who creates/sells the 'ruined' neon signs, than one who's buying them...and I'm quite sure I've heard the unmarked repro guys make the exact SAME argument...

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" - Upton Sinclair
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#326535 - Thu May 17 2012 08:52 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: gulfiend!]
THERMOMAN Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Aug 15 2006
Loc: smyrna, de USA
Great quote. I agree with you word for word. Your posts ring loud and clear with me. Great minds think alike.
_________________________
see me at Mason Dixon Gas, Spring Carlisle M114-115, and Hershey C4E-35.

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#326736 - Fri May 18 2012 01:00 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: gulfiend!]
Signs&Neons Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jul 25 2010
Loc: Midwest
Unmarked repo's, drilled signs, a car that's been in a wreck, a house with a poor foundation - it all boils down to being an educated buyer - AND, of course, dealing with an honest, reputable seller you trust. Do your homework, ask questions, closely inspect the product - these are all basics of ANY smart purchase!

That said, those who misrepresent a drilled sign as an authentic original porcelain neon sign are DEAD WRONG in my book, we can at least agree on that I believe Gulfiend?

What I don't understand is why you and many others on this site don't realize (or accept) that not every collector of petroliana is a complete stickler for 100% originality like yourself??

I like and buy original neon signs - but know many people who buy neons don't care if they are original. They want the look - and not the 5 figure price tag to go with it. Or perhaps their favorite sign that was never made in a neon version. They may buy a repop, or a lower priced original sign that has been neoned. Who am I to judge that this should be unacceptable for them, and that they have purchased a "ruined" sign? Don't understand your logic there, guess we'll just agree to disagree.

I'm not trying to sell you anything, other than perhaps the concept of a more open mind to other's collecting tastes/styles - but everyone has their own opinions.

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#326746 - Fri May 18 2012 06:02 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: Signs&Neons]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
It's all about the $$$$ to some, to others it is about being a TRUE collector and collecting REAL items.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#326748 - Fri May 18 2012 06:41 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: KZ1000]
57tbirdkid Offline
TBA Feature Host

Registered: Tue May 04 2010
Loc: NY
To ruin a piece of service station history by adding neon is not good for the hobby...it may look nice, bring more money...but at the end of the day a sign that was in its orginal state has been ruined by having holes drilled into it. Keeping stuff original is the historical part of this hobby. Think of how great it is that some of these signs have lated this long and through years in the great condtion they are in....now since someone wants to make money they have altered a piece of history!!!!


Edited by 57tbirdkid (Fri May 18 2012 06:42 AM)
_________________________
The most valuable commodity I know of is information-Wall Street

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#326778 - Fri May 18 2012 11:19 AM Re: You Tube video of Michael DINGMAN`s collection. [Re: Signs&Neons]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Signs&Neons
That said, those who misrepresent a drilled sign as an authentic original porcelain neon sign are DEAD WRONG in my book, we can at least agree on that I believe Gulfiend?


...of course...

Originally Posted By: Signs&Neons
What I don't understand is why you and many others on this site don't realize (or accept) that not every collector of petroliana is a complete stickler for 100% originality like yourself??


...and what I don't understand, is how you can fail to realize (or accept) that drilling holes in an original sign has forever altered that sign for the worse...

Originally Posted By: Signs&Neons
Who am I to judge that this should be unacceptable for them, and that they have purchased a "ruined" sign?


...while I do think it's foolish and short-sighted to sink a lot of money into an what is essentially an illegitimate sign, NOWHERE in my posts do I assert that these people have no right to do what they want with their money, or try to limit what they do with it...my issue is with the guys ruining the signs...by calling attention to them (and the guys who make unmarked repros), maybe the demand for such signs will diminish to the point where original signs are no longer ruined for an easy payday...
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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