Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Whats the value of value questions?

As a memeber of this site day after day many value questions are asked in our value forum. In my opinion the value section has hurt the integerity of this site and the true purpose of this hobby...enjoy the history of items and have FUN! I am sure people will say well "just don't look at the value forum" well to be honest its pretty hard not to when almost every thread on the main page has something to do with value. Let sit back and think what is value? and who determines value. My definition of value is the amount of money a party is willing to exchange in retun for an item/service. How can we put a value on a item without any transaction whatsoever exisiting? Are past sales a good way to determine the true market value? In my opinion not really. Just becuase an item sells at auction for $XXX does it make that item worth that amount?....NO... the preception of peoples opinions change based on what they see the item sell for! I have spoke with many collectors and have met some great people in this hobby. I feel elimantion of the value forum would actually be more benifical to this site since most of us would have other things to talk about and contribute other knowedge to other sections. If this stuff was worth nothing how many people would be members? As COLLECTORS our goal is to preserve the history of service station related items, learn how items were used, and HAVE FUN!

Very nicely said! I agree.

Before we had the value section all the value questions showed up in the general section and some did not like that so the value section was added to resolve that issue. If the value section is removed those questions will not disappear but will go right back to the general section.

Too many are buying an item that they felt was a decent price, THEN asking what the item is worth! Like they need a pat on the back or trying to justify to the wife for buying it.
They need to do their home work Before buying the item.
If your buying an item to flip it, list it on ebay w/o a reserve.
Some are abusing the Value Forum.
Been a Dick all my life!

Thank you for your opinion.

It is a joy to live in a country and have available a website where varied opinions can be expressed by everyone involved in some aspect of the hobby of gas & oil merchandise.

As people will oft say, something is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. And based on a person's experience they will value different merchandise by what they have bought/sold/traded a piece for in the past or rely on the word of others, or a book someone wrote and stuck a value on the merchandise. Those savvy with a computer can access myriads of records of sales and determine average values and believe in those numbers. Everyone comes up with their own number in their minds, the trick is to find someone who agrees with that number.

Having a forum section devoted to determining value is extremely important in this modern age when access to local resources may be limited or non-existent. Just because an individual places a certain value range on an item doesn't mean that value is set in stone. Perhaps in their area no one collects that particular merchandise, or maybe every does and it commands higher prices. The value in having such a forum is that anyone can chime in with their own opinion to value and the reader of the thread can either agree or disagree with their valuations. And those who have experience in selling the merchandise can give real world results they have experienced.

The goal of any hobby is to promote the hobby AND expand the numbers of people who can participate in the hobby. Having a value section is not a detriment to the Oldgas site, in fact it helps draw people to the site, to join and share opinions, collections, recent acquisitions or help in determining the value of something they have no experience with at all.

From personal experience I can tell you that I have always enjoyed dealing with people who were not only knowledgeable but also willing to share their insights and experience with me in the many hobbies I have had over the years. Gas & Oil is no different, I enjoy the hobby, though I cannot afford to collect long term. Instead my enjoyment is found in finding and putting into hands of a collector merchandise they will add to their collection.

I am one person who loves to share my experience as well in this hobby, and part of that is giving my own opinion on the value of merchandise. Whether someone agrees or disagrees with my valuation isn't the point, the point is being willing to share knowledge & experience with those who don't have it. And as more people give input, a clearer vision appears that may help a burgeoning collector continue in the hobby!

So, though I do appreciate your opinion and am glad you can share it, I humbly disagree.

I'll try something new. I took the Value forum posts out of the center column featured topics on the Portal page. They will still show up on the right Portal page column of Recent Petro Posts. Avoid them by going to "Forum List" and viewing only the forum categories you like.

The demand for values by legitimate collectors is not going away.

Thank you Jim and input of others. I agree with DB 100 percent.

A quarter-pounder with cheese is a better value. ;;;;;;;Ron

Too many are buying an item that they felt was a decent price, THEN asking what the item is worth! Like they need a pat on the back or trying to justify to the wife for buying it.
They need to do their home work Before buying the item.
If your buying an item to flip it, list it on eBay w/o a reserve.
Some are abusing the Value Forum.

Dick, first , heavy emphasis on the word "Abuse ".

I too have seen this forum kind of slide in a way I hate to see it go . I joined here to learn and expand my knowlege of petro history, not see a bunch of whiney crybabies want their retirements paid for with a few underhanded purchaces .

Ed Shaver

I'm with Carolina 100% and appreciate this section of the site. Lets face it, many got into the hobby much earlier than some of us late bloomers and many became large collectors since then. So much so that they've been building collections for 20-30 years. For many who started collecting that long ago (or longer), some are now sitting on 100K collections while others have 1M collections because of the rise in interest in recent years.

With that being said, keep in mind that many of us (my self included) are somewhat new to the hobby and have only started collecting in recent times. Prices to get into a particular brand collection have been climbing steadily in value and for many, the costs for some of these items we would like to have are simply out of reach. I mean how many every day guys working 8-5 can drop 2.5K for a 30" sign? Seriously?

Sure...we want to collect a brand and yes we want the original porcelains to go with that brand, or perhaps a rare display piece to adorn the counter space, but sometimes a new collector doesn't know if he should offer 1K for a piece only to get laughed at from another collector who knows his pal down the way will give him 3K for it because it's simply rare?

Don't forget for a second that the guy who's had some cool things for 20 years knows all too well what their worth, and don't tell me that they don't take that to the bank when they turn it to another collector because they make profit when they trade something off or move it out to make space for another item coming in. Supply and demand is what drives the market and the hobby is going to grow with baby boomers and the next generation so instead of gripeing about it, realize that it's new collectors coming into the market that will help it grow and keep it alive.

If we didn't, the market would soften and we'd all be sitting on old scrap metal that the Chinese would buy up and melt down for the scrap metal it's printed on. Look at it in a different way and open an eye to help someone new get into the hobby because there are many in their 30's and 40's who'd love to own some of it, but don't want to get taken by someone who's simply here for the gain. Yes, there are those too, but that's part of a market and it's easy to spot those who are simply in it for the flip. Some of those people are still good people and some are simply not. I think they're easy to spot.

Anyways, I think the value section is great for both knowledge and opinions to be shared on the value of some items, and know all too well that there's often a sign or a can I want, but unfortunately I don't always know what something is worth to buy when I delve into a new product and seek the advice of others who may know more about it than I. Face it, nobody likes to learn from mistakes, and at least it's nice to limit those risks where it's easy to get buried in a particular piece. Without your knowledge of a rare items value, people like us would be reluctant to buy it, and the long term effect of that would be nothing but shrink!

This site has grown by leaps and bounds since it first started, and I hope you didn't think it was always going to stay some dark shady part of the internet when there's so much knowledge here about the products so many want to collect. It's called growth, and again...it's a good thing!

Out!

While I do like reading the value forum and have used it a COUPLE of times myself, I agree with DB and Ed that they key word here is "ABUSED".
When I entered this hobby 5-1/2 years ago I didn't ask value questions like we see over and over currently from the same people. For about the first year, I kind of laid low, read every post on here, and only asked questions that I felt helped contribute to a thread as a newbie. I went to shows, looked on Ebay and other auction sites to get ideas of what stuff sold for. I rarely ever bought an item the first time I seen one listed on Ebay. I watched several examples sell first, to get a better idea of what the item generally sold for before just jumping on it the first time I seen one.
We come from an instant gratification society now days....I think this is lending to the value "abuse" issue so many are tiring of. Buy it now, so no one else gets it, without doing the necessary homework first seems to be a prevalent problem. I would rather miss out on something while I was doing my homework than buy it with no clue and get burned. I have been questioning why a few of the abusers are "pickers", who are supposedly already buying low to sell for a profit. Don't call yourself a picker if you don't know what you're doing. Sell it, make a few bucks, and look for the next buy. I know everyone is worried about leaving a couple of bucks on the table, but if you're in the business to sell then sell, you're a picker, not a collector, right?
Darin

cant we all just get along ?...
What I find funny is some people that complain about the value section and pickers, email and call me all the time to see what I found.
SIMPLE... we all need each other, for what ever reason... xo

Darin, I agree with you 100%. I too like reading that forum also, but the best advice I got while asking a value in that forum...was to do your homework..check Mathews auctions, check Aumann, etc. to see what stuff sold for then make a judgement for myself. Wasn't the answer I was looking for at the time, but it changed the way I thought after that. Thanks oldgas veterans for the tough love, I needed it. JM2C

-Paul

I agree with you always lookin..... I know many items I buy at one point were found by a picker, and I know they have a hand in supplying new items to ALL collectible hobby markets. I don't think anyone can dispute that fact!
I personally have no problems at all with real pickers or the value section, was just pointing out my observation that the difference between real pickers and "fly-by-night TV watching pickers" is looking pretty evident to many members here, namely in the values section.

Another value forum complaint thread, must be that time of the month again.

I am not that smart, but if I don't like something I will not read it, wow its that simple.

I read the value forum everyday. There is no doubt that, there are some people that continually post about every item they buy. It's almost like they suffer some sort of self esteem issue or something else in that they need to seek everyone's approval or a make me feel good pat on the back, by being told that they got a good deal. Not to mention a week or two later the item's for sale.

Do I lose sleep over it? Absolutely not! I have a choice.... and I simply don't read their posts or comment on them.

I don't think it would be a wise solution to get rid of the values forum. You would be punishing the majority for the actions of a few. That in my opinion would be a greater injustice. As I believe that there are bona fide user's of the forum and I always enjoy answering their inquiries.

I collect a lot of different items and I never worry about values. I buy items for the pleasure and the privilege of ownership. If someone has something that I like. I'm going home with it and if I paid to much....I really don't care. You can't put a value on the peace of mind, pleasure and comfort I get from collecting and meeting like minded individuals.

I think we need to enjoy our collections more and worry less about what others are posting. Nothing wrong, with ignoring a post or two and let's not lose sight of the fact that we all share a common interest...petroliana and that includes the values forum .

Well said Dave, after reading above posts i believe the main reason is abuse of the forum. It does have its place as long as it is used in the correct manner.

I agree with db 100% too! And I also agree with him on the value part of his answer!

I think it should be what is THE HISTORY of this item not value. Isnt that what its all about? Preserving the past. Finding out what era,who used it, why ect ect. Not how much you can make selling it to somebody. nobody can put a value on it but you, what it means to you.

Very Good Point, As a seller and collector we get caught up on what can we make.

I don't go on there so I don't have any problems with it.
Just sayin...

Being one of the moderators for the values section, I am a little biased as I like the Values forum. For me it is not about ego to see if I got a good deal. For me, it is about trying to pay a fair price. I try to follow auctions, ebay, Oldgas to learn about fair prices, etc. But there is soooo much to learn. Jack's and other books are a god-send, but a guideline as there are few absolutes in this hobby/business. I truely appreciate the knowledge here and all of the help...even from the crabby ones..LOL.

I have a problem with the value forum, only because I don't understand what most are asking for....

I know some of the COLLECTORS who ask for values.... And most of these members are asking for just that... the actual value of the item in question....

Too often, I see other members asking for a value and based on that same item being placed immediately For Sale either here, on Craigslist and/or Ebay for amounts above the values given...

They have been looking for "Retail Pricing".....

Unfortunately, quite a few of the members who throw out numbers here, have the same "problem" with knowing the difference. A couple who have little to NO knowledge come to mind...

One is a "want to be Picker" and the other is a Merchant..... These two and some others, have a perfect right to throw out numbers.... I just wished that there had to be a "tag line" attached to each one of their comments. Warning those new to the hobby, that they don't have any idea what they are talking about......


I don't mind sharing what knowledge I may or may not have acquired. The problem is what numbers do I give? Retail or actual values?

There lies my problem..........

Bob, I know who needs to be moderator of the Value forum ---------- YOU!!!!!!!!!!!


Finially somone with some common sense and makes an intellegent post an makes muh day brighter too!!!!!

YOU DA MAN ........ Ed Shaver

Ouch.....that hurt..LOL I will give up the moderator role....

NO ONE in THEIR right mind, would offer the position of Moderator to me.... I am Politically Incorrect most of the time and I take great pride in that fact...

I for one, think that Alex does a very fine job as Moderator... Alex and I have have more than a couple of chats about the Forum... Too many times, I believe members take advantage of the Forum's and the Moderators by "throwing in" non petro items along with a petro item...

I get frustrated quite easily and voice those frustrations....

The moderators that Jim has found, have terribly difficult jobs... They have to "walk a tightrope" everyday, a "tightrope" I would never attempt to walk....

A moderator has to be polite, professional and put up with a lot of flack at times.... Anyone who has been on this site more than a year or so.... Know that I excel at using 4 letter words to drive a point home. And I am not shy about "driving a point home".....

Bob as a mod!
. LOL!

A moderator has to be polite, professional and put up with a lot of flack at times.... Anyone who has been on this site more than a year or so.... Know that I excel at using 4 letter words to drive a point home. And I am not shy about "driving a point home".....

Bob, jus so happens I am a Moderator , for another forum of course . I mean no disrespect to Alex. Hey Axex, I think you've done fine , you jus need Bob's "Expertise "!

I just call the shots the way I see them . Here , where I live , I have my detractors and my friends . I tell people "I am who I are , no mo , no less " . Ed Shaver

I have the same issues outlined in previous posts regarding the value forum; also as suggested I just don't look at it anymore.

I belong to an Old Car forum similar to this and how they handle these types of questions / inquiries is that there is a list posted of members who are "experts" in a certain area for example 1963 through 1967 Corvettes, Radios, 1934 1935 Standards, etc... These members have offered to be listed as the "expert" and field questions through PM's and e-mails. Could this work in the value forum concept???? Don't know......I think it would weed out the “flippers” and the “I hope I didn’t pay too much for this after the fact people”.

Just a thought……

Instead of listing some members as;
Active Member,
Petro Enthusiast.


They could be;
"Expert",
Newbie Picker,
Veteran Picker,
Barn Hanger, Back Slapper,
etc.!
LOL

Oh,oh.... I want to be a "back slapper"....

Back in the middle 1980's , I went into a business venture with one of the So called "Experts " . This proved dangerous , well to me . I learned over time most of these "Experts " are at most , B S artists . I trust my instincts and so far , I've only burned myself a couple of times and not too baddly. Ed Shaver

I'm afraid to ask what designation I would get...

a 'hanger on', 'petro groupie', or simply 'that strange woman.'

I actually kinda think 'Petro Enthusiast' fits!

So who would judge who is 'expert' at values? What would happen to rejected members? I think any values given should be only one of many tools used to find as accurate a value possible on any given piece, as there seems to be a lot of variables involved: rarity based on location, or quantity, condition, a buyers desire, etc. As folks have said there are books, even outdated books, sales sites, lots of places to gather information. The more information, the better a judge of potential value.

If a member has been giving consistantly bad information, any collector or flipper who stays with the hobby will figure it out (hopefully not the hard way) and avoid him/her. By that same token they will quickly learn to identify the knowledgable and respected members, who will often admit that values in this day and age can be hard to assign.

I agree COMPLETLY! I've spoken to this effect in the past, only to be slammed! I've offered opinions on value, only to be slammed! I've defended my opinions, only to be put on probation!

I'll not say anymore of the "Value" section...

The organization / club with whom the site was launched and created (also have a monthly magazine very similar to "Check the Oil") ask certain members if they would like to volunteer be the "expert“ in designated categories; actually went and looked it up they are called Technical Assistance & Advisors. In the world of collector automobiles owners and enthusiasts learn quickly who the experts are of a certain brand / model. How this correlates to the Hobby of Petroliana is if you have been around the hobby any length of time and you are actively involved you pretty much know who is versed in globes, signs, pumps, or certain companies like Texaco / Cities Service; I won’t name any names but the true Petro Enthusiast know who I am referring to. Anyone who looks at the value forum section can see who is willing to help on values and know what they are talking about and then those who are trying to be helpful but are not “versed” on the subject. IMO the values given on Oldgas should be the true value from a collector to a collector; not Barrett Jackson or someone who is only interested in making a quick buck “pie in the sky” values.

If there are experts out there who are not currently answering questions and would be willing to volunteer their time to answer these questions, I'd like to hear from them. Please send me a PM message.

IMO the values given on Oldgas should be the value from a collector to a collector,not what Barrett Jackson or someone who is only interested in making a quick buck "pie in the sky" values.
I agree but to many members using the forumn is after the pie in the sky value.
Nicole petro groupie I'm sorry your age bust you out of this group.

Couldn't disagree more with this statement and the opinions of several on this issue.

I don't care why they're here asking for value info. Doesn't matter if they are a serious collector, weekend warrior, picker, or someone that just found some stuff in their family's estate.

More questions lead to increase traffic on this site. More traffic translates into advertisers that spend money here doing better. Increased traffic means more stuff gets posted for sale here. Increased traffic means I might get to see some stuff on here that I other wise might not have gotten to see.

It appears to me the originator of this forum and those who moderate would like to see the forum continue to grow and gain more visibility. I applaud their effort.

If you want a forum reserved for only a select few, discussing only the topics that interest you, then maybe it's time for you to launch your own site instead of this constant bitch session about value forums, non petro items, and who ain't giving me the respect I deserve threads.

I think the orginal point was how many of us have been asked the history and age and everything else about an item , when the only thing the person on the other end cares about is the value and flipping it for a profit. Which is alittle maddening. (because you've spent 30-60min researching it for them to make a buck) at which point i tell them to put it up for auction and what ever it brings is what it's worth.
as far as true value of something of course that only comes into play when you buy/sell something when it's hanging on my wall it doesn't matter if it's worth $5 or $5,000 as long as i like it.

I should have been more clear in my wording; not trying to exclude anyone who is not a "collector"; just stating IMO the values should be what the hobby, which centers around collectors (buyers, sellers & traders), feel the current relative value of an item is. Not what a Picker / Flipper sold to an uneducated car guy for his man cave on a whim value "car guy got taken to the cleaners"; or what some uneducated rich guy spent for a common visible pump at Barrett Jackson in Palm Beach value.

The vast array of topics, items, and stories that are shared on Oldgas are very entertaining and educational to everyone who visits the site whether you’re a collector or not; to include those who love the history of Oil and Gas or to those individuals who inherited their fathers collection and trying to understand why their loved one was so interested in all this old “junk” and what they should do with it now.

I agree with Dalin:

"I think the orginal point was how many of us have been asked the history and age and everything else about an item , when the only thing the person on the other end cares about is the value and flipping it for a profit."

"Primarily Petroliana is a community bringing gas station antique collectors, dealers, publishers and service providers together for the benefit of all."

Earlier today I saw this post and strted to reply, had second thoughts and deleted it, then I saw something in our own "For Sale" section of this site.
Member puts about 12 items on the for sale section, lists prices, other members post they want to purchase, but this is all being done through PMs.
Now we tell the new guys, you need to do your research to find out what items are selling for, and the same persons are purchasing items through PMs where we have no idea what they are selling for.
As I say to a lot of stupid thing that are being done around me, "I just can do the math."

If we are going to tell collectors they need to do more research, why are we corresponding prices to each other by PMs?

Jack Sim

Jim ,Now that's funny.

Jim,

If you are seriously considering having a panel of experts, you may want to have some way they can answer without folks knowing who they are, or their pm boxes and e-mail accounts will be swamped more than they already are, with folks trying to contact them directly.

Nicole,
That is why we have "watchdog" moderators who are anonymous volunteers. I have no plans to recruit a panel experts. I sincerely appreciate those who help now to give their opinions on value and authenticity. Others who would be kind enough to help others are invited to post their thoughts on the forum.

I've offered... And I'm STILL on probation...

Jim,

I wanted to THANK YOU for doing a great job moderating this great site that most of us collectors enjoy.

I am glad you have decided to keep the VALUE forum.

I'll second that and also glad post are moved to right margin of main page. As much as I feel this forum is abused I can learn alot watching it.

One good thing about the value forum if some one throws out a picture of an item in question it will be discussed and a repo can be spotted even if it has already been bought you can learn from it.