Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Online Auctions, eBay Craigslist Petroliana When or when not to make offers to end auctions...

Hello All,
First off, I want to say this post is not to start any disagreements or arguments, just getting something off my chest today, which is a rare for me to do at any time, I'm a pretty quiet type usually.
I had some extremely nice, scarce Mobil oval handy oilers in my Ebay watch, awaiting the auction end to execute my bids. I was a bit peeved this morning to see the auctions all ended. I sent the seller an email asking why the auctions were ended or what was going on with them. He replied that he was fed up with the drama and all of the lowball offers he was getting from dealers. The sellers auctions clearly stated no reserve or buy it now on his items.
Are some dealer/collectors so hellbent on acquiring items that they plainly disregard a seller's auction rules? In this case it has plainly ***** off this seller enough that he told me that all of this stuff was going back in boxes and he was done with auctioning them. He explained he didn't have to sell this stuff, and was hoping to pass his collection on to the next group of collectors that would appreciate his stuff. This seller had already offered some TOP quality oilers, and who knows now what our collecting community is going to miss out on now that a few unscrupulous people who couldn't read or exhibit courtesy to the seller ruined it for people with respect.
I will be up front and say I have very occasionally sent an offer to a seller making an offer for an item I really wanted. I think many would be lying if they said they had not done this. The only cases that I have ever done this though was after thoroughly reading the sellers auction listing to see if they stated "we do not end auctions early or no BIN price".
I guess is what I'm getting at is read a sellers listing first before making outside offers. In this case, a true Mobil collector, ME lol, lost out on adding some really choice items due to the actions of others with no respect for the seller, or ultimately me as well as the case may be as I was waiting for the auction to run its course as was requested, and now we're ALL out of the running for this guy's very good quality merchandise!
Thanks for listening guys....it's too hot and I guess I'm a bit cranky today, lol!
Darin

If you see it and want it, buy it!
No auction should be ended early. m2c..

Darin: Good topic. I, too, have on occasion emailed a seller to see if they have a buy-it-now price. If they say no I thank them and will then go bid. When I started buying on ebay i never asked and waited out the auction. Like you, when I saw some items I realy wanted "disapear" before the auction ended, I would email the seller and ask what happened. Usually it was because someone (to quote the Godfather) made them an offer they couldn't refuse. It was frustrating....so even though I didn't think it was ethical...I did start to ask on occasion. For the record I still prefer to see the auctions run their course.

My suggestion to you would be to email the guy back and tell him you are interested in his items and ask him what his price would be and make a fair offer. You might just get lucky.

Anxious to hear what others have to say.

I agree always lookin that auctions shouldn't be ended early, as I have been on the end of an "ended auction" more than once. But there again, I was on that end because I respected that sellers auction rules and didn't email them to end it early with an offer, while someone else did.
Could you clarify what you mean with your first line though please?
Darin

And Alex, great reply as that is exactly along my lines of thinking in regards to making offers. While not ethical, I know that if it's a piece that I'm SUPER interested in, others are too that are certainly going to make an offer to end the auction.

Hi Darin, so sorry to hear this. I agree with Alex. Email the gentlemen and tell him you are interested in some of the items he had listed and try to work out a deal. If you don't react to the situation someone else will... Who knows what else the seller has for sale that wasn't listed... GO!

Don't worry guys, I sent him my contact information this morning after receiving his reply. I just said if you change your mind on selling, let me know and for him to name his price so he's happy. Again, I think this gentleman is pretty soured by the whole experience and I don't really expect to hear anything from him.

I have had to ask many times if auction will run its course and not be ended early, just to see the items go away a day or so later. Sorry, its an auction to me till the end, and I have been unhappy many a times.
Years ago a guy had a whole collection and I asked if he would sell a sign out of it. He stopped the auction and relisted without the item he sold me. Was it right or did I just do the same thing others have done that I so dislike. I live with that judgement.

Let me say upfront; I have no problem asking if a Seller will consider a BIN price...

I always put forth, what I consider to be honest BIN offers. If the Seller accepts, then they must also feel that my offers are honest and forthcoming....

Each person must decide "the course they want to sail"... My course is to try and add too my Collections in a manner that I feel is respectful and honest...

If a Seller has in their auction that they will not consider BIN offers, I respect that and will not contact them (most of the time).... The exception is, if I see that an auction has been "recycled" a few times... I will contact the Seller then and remind them (as if they need reminding) that their item(s) have not yet sold. I always offer what I believe is a fair price... Most times the Seller agrees and a transaction is completed. A few times they haven't....

Now I have missed out on an auction because I did not ask... I also have been lucky enough to pick up numerous items that had not yet been placed up for auction because I asked and was honest with my offers...

I never ask anyone to end an auction early and never end mine early but hey that's just the way I roll. Probably missed out on some items for being this way but hell I'll never own it all anyway. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;Ron

On auction items that i want to see go the distance, i email the seller and ask them "please do not end this auction early, i would like the chance to bid on your item and i think you will like the hammer price." Most of the time i cant afford the item, but i usually get to see its true value without pestering everyone on here.

I got to this one early enough, the seller assured me i would have a chance to bid on this. I think its to expensive for me to own, but im going to see the final price!!

Ebay 271006756347

Doesn't make you a bad person, Ron...LOL.

This is not an attack on anyone, but rather just an explanation of "How I see it and how I roll". Not passing judgement on anyone.

I'm a little confused...it's either right or it's wrong. There is no middle ground. You can't have it both ways. If you have done it in the past...then you are part of the problem that you are bringing to light. There are no lesser degrees of participation. On the rare occasion that you did it. I am sure someone was put at a disadvantage. Their disappointment can not and should not be ignored simply because you have convinced yourself that it was not as bold as the attempts related by you above.

I never have and never will make an BIN offer on an active auction. I believe in fair play and that all the same rules should and must apply to everyone equally.

I have made offers on items that have ended without bids. No bids = over priced. I have asked for a price adjust based on market response.

We all know instinctively what is right and wrong. Some cloud that instinctive knowing by bargaining with themselves. The words of wisdom and ethical conduct are written in black ink on white paper. To me it's quite clear, in black and white....there is no gray area. It's a personal choice, how you choose to play. I believe in and promote fair play. With no exceptions.

That has always been one of the classic dilemas of ethics. Is it black and white or is it gray? I used to teach an ethics class at our company and one of the ways people slide to the unethical side is we tend, as humans, to rationalize our behavior or say, "Who will it hurt?" If people tend to look at things from a black and white perspective it makes the decision of doing the right thing easier. But not all decisions are B&W. Example: uf you only had enough money to pay the power bill or feed your family and you have exchausted all other sources of money...what would you do? Pay the money or feed the family? Or another, we all know shoplifting is wrong...would you shoplift some medicine to help your child with 104 degree temperature if you had no money or other resources? Ethical questions make for great discussions.....

Be thankful we all live in countries where we are allowed to have these discussions...Happy 4th of July and a belated Happy Dominion day to our neighbors in Canada....

I do agree with you on many of your points Dave. I must clarify that when I have made offers on items, they were newly listed and did not have any bids. I have had items get bids in the meantime, and the sellers did not end the auctions due to a bid being placed, which I replied back to them in total agreement not to end the auction. I guess this is my "gray area" that when an item is listed, I know it's an auction that by the rules set forth by Ebay, should go to the end. If the item doesn't have a bid, then I feel it's OK to make an offer, if it has a bid, I wouldn't ever make an offer and hope like heck it goes to the end so I can have an opportunity to bid. I too have made many deals with sellers after an auction ended, due to the starting bid being way too high.
I just wanted to stress though my main point of the post was in regards to sellers who blatently say NO BIN and are then barraged with offers to end the auctions early, which NO ONE should do with respect to the sellers.

I would hope that no one in the hobby. Feels that they are knowledgeable enough or have power enough to decide for others, what is ethical and not ethical?

That has always been an individual thought process. What may be ethical to one is not necessarily ethical to all....

If one doesn't like the idea of asking a Seller to end an auction early, then don't do it.... If you are comfortable with asking, then do it.... Neither is right, neither is wrong...

Stealing from the Seller would be wrong.... But, offering and paying a honest price for an item is NOT WRONG....

One may not like that the Seller took the offer....

But the last I checked, unless you are the one who owns the actual item(s). Then you have no say so in what another person does with THEIR own ITEMS!!!!!!!

When I was a very young man I thought every thing in life was "black and white", right and wrong....

I then went to war, where nothing was "black and white"... Everything from then on has had a million shades of grey in it...

Life is made up of a million decisions that are all steeped in grey... Ask anyone who has been through a Tornado that wiped out a neighbor but didn't touch them or the other way around... A parent that has lost a child. A combat vet...... So on and so forth....

Well said Bob! I always say when it comes to ebay don't hate the player hate the game.

Concerning the auctions or more specifically the seller that DWsheffer initial post is about, something doesn't smell right. I find it hard to believe that an adult is going to take his ball and go home because he doesn't like a few e-mails of offer to end the auction early. I'll bet dollars to donuts that he accepted an offer and made up that story to avoid the aftermath.

If I were a seller that took offense to these offers, I would have a little fun and post the request in the "questions and answers about this item" showing the persons eBay i.d.. I'd bet not a lot off offers to end it early would come in after that.

My thoughts Exactly!!!!

Bob, I started my post by stating "How I see it and how I roll. Not passing judgement on anyone."

Obliviously you failed to read that or simply chose to ignore it. Because it's your opening sentence that I find overbearingly assuming and ill informed.

Your sentence read "I would hope that no one in the hobby. Feels that they are knowledgeable enough or have power enough to decide for others, what is ethical and not ethical?"

Read my post I'm not deciding anything for anyone. I'm entitled to an opinion based on my life experience and I expressed it. I realize that your life experiences are different then mine and therefore have taught you differently.

In my opinion your logic is flawed and self serving.

Seller lists his item, auction style. Everyone else is playing by the rules i.e. patiently waiting to bid or are bidding. It's wrong for anyone to make a BIN offer and corrupt and derail the process. BIN offer is not a honest offer. Only reason one makes the offer is because they don't want to compete with everyone and have to pay full price. They are screwing the seller out of money and the other bidders out of a fair auction. They are not doing the seller a favor or looking out for their best interests. In fact, they are only looking out for themselves and are in the pursuit of their on best interests. It's a very selfish act and puts everyone else who is following the rules at a disadvantage.

You can sell it to yourself however you like. But, I'm not buying it! Fact remains, it wasn't a level playing field. In other words BIN offers are a form of cheating.

For me life is black and white. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Cheating is wrong! It's not a grey area for me.

Anyways, enough said. I don't think neither one is trying to convince the other. In the end, we may simply have to agree to disagree. Having said that, I'm not posting anymore on this thread. Irregardless of what you may or may not post.

Dave, you are correct. We do view this subject differently...

In the grand scheme of life, who really cares if we "see eye to eye"?

The membership and those on Ebay will decide for themselves which path they will follow, not us.....

I don't sell on ebay much anymmore, but I think the seller can change the format from auction style to Buy It Now before anyone bids on it. And, I think, they can list the BIN for a specific buyer. So, if that is the case then it would be within the rules to offer a BIN if there are no bidders. To me, where it would then be unethical is when somene has bid and then the seller ends it early.

I think the true problem here is that the seller couldn't put up with the pressure of a few ebay messages. You have to expect that when trying to sell online or even in the real world you will have people try to scam you or buy you're item for next to nothing. You just have to ignore them and do what you think is best to get the best price you think you can get for the item. Its like people who list on craigslist but say no spammers or lowballers, its not going to stop people, its just the price you pay for trying to sell online.

I don't post alot but I do sell quite a bit on ebay. Attending local auctions, picking and finding cool items then reselling as became sort of a part time job/hobby for me and I sincerely enjoy it.
I often get offers to end an item early and just recently have had 4 offers on an item currently listed. 3 of the offers were reasonable and 1 was just someone trying to play me for a fool.I respectfully declined all 4 offers just because I want to see what the item sells for, there was no other reason than the thrill of watching the auction end. I almost always start all my auctions at .99 with no reserve no matter what I paid for the item. I always entertain offers and never get angry it's part of selling on ebay. If the person pulled his items because someone asked him to sell the item then I agree with manothebus, if you don't want the messages don't list the items!

I think some of you are ignoring something. Ebay has rules, you break the rules and they find out, you and the other person are out. Asking a seller to end an auction is against Ebay's rules.

I have bought and sold over 14,000 items on Ebay. Last year I sold over $76,000 worth of stuff on Ebay. At the present time I have over 2000 items running on Ebay, no auctions, 100% of them are Buy it Now. I will not do anything that might jepordize my ability to list things on Ebay. It sure beats what I used to do, I used to set up at 22 shows per year, almost one every other week. Some might think Ebay is expensive, but it sure beats sleeping in my truck every other week.

Jack Sim

Kind of like some peps post on here and c-list that they are taking offers on an item!

...if an auction has bids - AND has met the reserve - it should run its course...

...and Bob - you might have success requesting the seller's contact info (which would have their name), since you were a bidder on one of their auctions...click on 'advanced' next to 'search' at the top of an eBay page, then click on 'Find contact information' on the left hand side of the page, under 'members'...

Agree with Gulfiend! If reserve isn't met - no one has reached a purchase commitment - so if seller has a hot buyer willing to hand him the $, it's his choice to sell now IMO!

...also, if there is NO reserve and there are bids, I think the auction should run its course as well...

I received a message from the Seller answering my question of what happened to the Auction.... He answered that the Tydol ad glass got broken.....

I don't know what happened.... I have had items I was selling on Ebay break, but I always sent a message to the bidder(s) to let them know.....

For those that wonder what happened: I was the high bidder on a piece of ad glass and the auction was pulled by the Seller without any notification by the Seller to me... And I was/am irritated by the lack of courtesy by the Seller... I am hoping that he is not a Member of Oldgas.....

I asked eBay about no reserve and reserve is met on an auction where seller pulls it and eBay said they are human and can change their mind....so don't believe the hype about legal contract....so of we bid on something and change our mind on wanting can we just say we are human and changed our minds on wanting it,,,,,,,

...a photo of the broken glass would clear up any questions, right?

You are absolutely correct Mark...

The reply I received from the seller was/is:

"Dear rain3482001,

it broke

- vintagesox85"

The Seller isn't real good with filling in the details, IMO...LOL

THERE IS AN ITEM ON HERE AND EBAY ...AND I HAVE A $10 BILL THAT THEY PULL FROM EBAY!