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Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #350922
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:01 AM
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member
Dick Bennett  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
It is possible a HD Dealer applied the decal. Back before digital printing who else would have had access to that decal?
Unlikely that the can company would print over existing graphics.

Has anyone researched Harley Davidson history enough to find out WHO they bought their Oil from? I've never heard of them having their own Refinery.
Anyone know who supplied the oil/greases for;
Ford
Ford Tractors
John Deer
BSA
Indian M.C.
Cushman Motor Cycles
Rislone
Pep Boys
?????

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dick Bennett] #350929
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:14 AM
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,529
Parker, CO
powerlube Offline
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powerlube  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,529
Parker, CO
I think dick is on the right track.


Scott Wright
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: powerlube] #350952
Sat Aug 25 2012 11:55 AM
Sat Aug 25 2012 11:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Chicago Suburbs
I
iowaoil Offline
Petro Enthusiast
iowaoil  Offline
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I
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Chicago Suburbs
So, I'm pretty sure that Harley Can is the real deal.

What was more availble in the last 90 years? Water slide decals. If I was asked to place a bet, I'd bet that's an old Shell decal that's actually flaking off of the Harley Can, not under the Harley logo. That'd sure make much more sense since a decal would flake more easily that the old cans we all have floating around.

I'd also suggest that the paint and patina on that can with similar colors looks spot on with a worn Hermoline 5 gallon rocker.

I asked the seller to take the can and look at it was a magnified glass...now he does suspect that it's actually a decal over the Harley logo.

As you may or may not know, most companies didn't actually print their own cans, and many companies didn't even own the cans until they used them! When the Iowa Oil Company went bankrupt in 2004, I bought a lot of old paperwork from them. I have the original company ledgers all the way back to their first day of business in 1905 through the late 50's.

I've read through thousands of entries in that ledger, they ordered cans from the Columbia Can Company, The St. Louis Tin & Sheet Metal Works (later the St. Louis Can Company, the make of the can in question here), and many more companies.

They too did not have their own refinery, but bought their gas and oil from companies such as Cities Service, Indian Refining, Standard, Valvoline, Monarch, and many more. Likely just repackaging their items in branding cans from bulk containers. They were buying train carloads of oil and rebranding. So if you see an Iowa Oil Company can, I can be 100% confident that they didn't do more than repackage or blend the oil thats inside.

If you think about it, this is the way you buy lots of things today...you're simply paying for the brand you buy. Go to Costco. Everything Branding Kirkland Signature (or at your local grocery store that's "store brand"), is likely made by a name brand, or a company that makes "store branded" items for hundreds of companies.

Finally, I can't tell you the number of times that I've found some cans that if you looked at the paint hard enough, you could see another brand underneath it! I've seen this on original cans as early as the 20's

I've pay way too much attention to quart cans. I've seen originals in the following formats:

Metal Can with 1 Design Printed over another
Metal Can with a different brand of paper label
Metal Can with an early metal can rebranded with a later paper label
Metal can that's printed with a different oil company or beer or food on the inside.

You see the same thing with signs, Sometimes if you look at the back in the right light you'll see some sort of food can that never made it to the shelf.

I just recently bought a few cans that had nice Crown/Crystal Flash cans from the 50's that had paper labels for some additive over them. A little elbow grese and boom!

In another example that I know I've seen alot of out there are Riley Brothers Cans. Their were some green/white paper label cans that are out there that have the earlier (and much cooler) Red & Yellow painted can underneath.

In closing, I'll get off of my can box and say, that Harley can is real, and holding it in person would simply prove it.


Collector of Illinois Oil Company, Iowa Oil Company, Round Outboard Motor Oil Quarts, St. Louis Gas Pumps, Double Cola, and anything else awesome.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: iowaoil] #350965
Sat Aug 25 2012 01:25 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 01:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member
Dick Bennett  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Oil companies re-labeling cans w/ Paper Labels, I agree. But oil companies re-printing [lithographing] cans bought from can companies after they were received is a hard rock to swallow.

I have seen several cans that had other companies [not just oil] printed on Inside of oil cans & Lids.

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dick Bennett] #351013
Sat Aug 25 2012 05:51 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
H
henlovestoys Offline OP
Veteran Member
henlovestoys  Offline OP
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H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
Wow! What a timing!

Here is one with a DECAL?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-...=item2ec1428b81


Last edited by henlovestoys; Sat Aug 25 2012 05:53 PM.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #351014
Sat Aug 25 2012 06:05 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 06:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member
Dick Bennett  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
From what I've seen flat part of can was always silver/tin plate.

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #351039
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:09 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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Dave's Garage  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
That guy thinks his can with a decal and then clear coated is worth $750.00 Buy it Now. He also calls it a restoration. That`s just out right retarded!


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #351049
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:45 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member
Dick Bennett  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
It's ebay!

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #351086
Sat Aug 25 2012 09:12 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 09:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
H
henlovestoys Offline OP
Veteran Member
henlovestoys  Offline OP
Veteran Member
H
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
Found this AD


Last edited by henlovestoys; Sun Aug 26 2012 12:51 AM.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #351103
Sun Aug 26 2012 12:01 AM
Sun Aug 26 2012 12:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member
Dick Bennett  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
& that has what to do w/ can being discussed?

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: iowaoil] #351402
Mon Aug 27 2012 06:41 AM
Mon Aug 27 2012 06:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,648
Upstate SC, USA
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member
carolinaskies  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,648
Upstate SC, USA
I have to agree with you.

Today packaging is so cheap and mass-produced there is no need/desire to relabel. However back in the 20s/30's this would have been common practice, it saved money, and was cheaper than ordering "virgin" packaging. Think about Henry Ford, he insisted that crating be very specific so that he could use the wood in his cars!

And as the country moved into the depression repurposing would be the norm. With labor so cheap in those days paying a guy to stencil or litho a can would have been more cost effective than ordering new cans.

Also, those who have the glass quart filler bottles know those bottles were used and reused for years, so extending the idea to cans is not a far stretch.

As to genuineness of the can, an immediate.. yep!




Originally Posted By: iowaoil
So, I'm pretty sure that Harley Can is the real deal.

What was more availble in the last 90 years? Water slide decals. If I was asked to place a bet, I'd bet that's an old Shell decal that's actually flaking off of the Harley Can, not under the Harley logo. That'd sure make much more sense since a decal would flake more easily that the old cans we all have floating around.

I'd also suggest that the paint and patina on that can with similar colors looks spot on with a worn Hermoline 5 gallon rocker.

I asked the seller to take the can and look at it was a magnified glass...now he does suspect that it's actually a decal over the Harley logo.

As you may or may not know, most companies didn't actually print their own cans, and many companies didn't even own the cans until they used them! When the Iowa Oil Company went bankrupt in 2004, I bought a lot of old paperwork from them. I have the original company ledgers all the way back to their first day of business in 1905 through the late 50's.

I've read through thousands of entries in that ledger, they ordered cans from the Columbia Can Company, The St. Louis Tin & Sheet Metal Works (later the St. Louis Can Company, the make of the can in question here), and many more companies.

They too did not have their own refinery, but bought their gas and oil from companies such as Cities Service, Indian Refining, Standard, Valvoline, Monarch, and many more. Likely just repackaging their items in branding cans from bulk containers. They were buying train carloads of oil and rebranding. So if you see an Iowa Oil Company can, I can be 100% confident that they didn't do more than repackage or blend the oil thats inside.

If you think about it, this is the way you buy lots of things today...you're simply paying for the brand you buy. Go to Costco. Everything Branding Kirkland Signature (or at your local grocery store that's "store brand"), is likely made by a name brand, or a company that makes "store branded" items for hundreds of companies.

Finally, I can't tell you the number of times that I've found some cans that if you looked at the paint hard enough, you could see another brand underneath it! I've seen this on original cans as early as the 20's

I've pay way too much attention to quart cans. I've seen originals in the following formats:

Metal Can with 1 Design Printed over another
Metal Can with a different brand of paper label
Metal Can with an early metal can rebranded with a later paper label
Metal can that's printed with a different oil company or beer or food on the inside.

You see the same thing with signs, Sometimes if you look at the back in the right light you'll see some sort of food can that never made it to the shelf.

I just recently bought a few cans that had nice Crown/Crystal Flash cans from the 50's that had paper labels for some additive over them. A little elbow grese and boom!

In another example that I know I've seen alot of out there are Riley Brothers Cans. Their were some green/white paper label cans that are out there that have the earlier (and much cooler) Red & Yellow painted can underneath.

In closing, I'll get off of my can box and say, that Harley can is real, and holding it in person would simply prove it.


Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: carolinaskies] #351418
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:29 AM
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Chicago Suburbs
I
iowaoil Offline
Petro Enthusiast
iowaoil  Offline
Petro Enthusiast
I
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Chicago Suburbs
As I mentioned I reached out to the seller...made some suggestions, and bada bing!

The can is relisted, sans the Shell decal that was on TOP of the Harley Logo.


Collector of Illinois Oil Company, Iowa Oil Company, Round Outboard Motor Oil Quarts, St. Louis Gas Pumps, Double Cola, and anything else awesome.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: iowaoil] #351425
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:49 AM
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,876
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
L
Loyd Pierce Online content
Veteran Member
Loyd Pierce  Online Content
Veteran Member
L
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,876
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
Iwoaoil may have deverted a mess if buyer was not happy with can as it was listed. Sounds like you have done your research on Iwoa oil. Lots of cans made by saint louis company all Pierce Pennant cans produce by them,even after central office moved operations to New York.


*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*
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