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Harley-Davidson Rocker Can #349362
Sat Aug 18 2012 11:20 AM
Sat Aug 18 2012 11:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
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henlovestoys Offline OP
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Wow!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300764059417?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

This is the 2nd one I have seen on eBay. brought big $$$ as well several years ago.

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #349374
Sat Aug 18 2012 01:01 PM
Sat Aug 18 2012 01:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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Nice rocker, interesting how it started it's life as a Shell can originally and then somehow and somewhere rebranded as a Harley Can. 7 days to go and it's up to $1750.00.


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #350548
Thu Aug 23 2012 08:15 PM
Thu Aug 23 2012 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,177
Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
JimT Offline
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Looks like someone cancelled their bid. Its down to 1500.00 now. Reserve not met....

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: JimT] #350587
Fri Aug 24 2012 04:13 AM
Fri Aug 24 2012 04:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,266
Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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someone will get screwed because someone made up/painted a can years ago "for themselves". can you imagine what it will be like 20 years from now.


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: KZ1000] #350618
Fri Aug 24 2012 08:03 AM
Fri Aug 24 2012 08:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,185
DFW Texas USA
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marxmobilgas Offline
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I'm just trying to figure out if it was done years ago and now its old or just recently added Harley graphics and now "aged" .

Not buying the Harley bought the Shell cans *****....

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: marxmobilgas] #350629
Fri Aug 24 2012 08:45 AM
Fri Aug 24 2012 08:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,053
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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....no, Harley wouldn't have bought the Shell cans...the can company may have repainted leftover Shell tin sheets with Harley graphics, before they were made into cans...we've all seen the cans that have other labels inside the can, printed on the backside of the tin...

...it even happened with fully-assembled cone top beer cans - especially Crowntainers...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: gulfiend!] #350634
Fri Aug 24 2012 08:57 AM
Fri Aug 24 2012 08:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,665
Cataula, Georgia, USA
Catauladave Offline
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So how does one "label" this item? Fake? Fantasy? Mistake? Replica? Original? Whatever? And does it have value as a collectable?
Thanks for your help,
Dave
PS Collecting is becoming "complicated". LOL


Dave Jones
It's All Just Stuff
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Catauladave] #350647
Fri Aug 24 2012 09:48 AM
Fri Aug 24 2012 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,882
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
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Loyd Pierce Offline
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Dave thats a good question! I guess if you was kicking it down at the St Loius can company in the roaring 20s you would be a expert.
Looks like can has had dents blowed out of it cause it has a outward crease on the shell side. Although the seller seems like a honest joe, I wouldn't cough up that kind of money with the maybes in question. Just my opinion,and you know what they say about them.


*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Loyd Pierce] #350654
Fri Aug 24 2012 10:09 AM
Fri Aug 24 2012 10:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,053
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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...if the can was made in the 1920's-1930's with overprinted tin, I think the value is the same as a can made at the time with not-overprinted tin...original...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: gulfiend!] #350672
Fri Aug 24 2012 12:31 PM
Fri Aug 24 2012 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,882
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
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Loyd Pierce Offline
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I agree and think its orginal,but there is allways that unknown.
Harley stuff is over valued as a whole in my opinion. If they keep demanding prices like this there will be fakes out there.
Seller is banking on what a antique dealer told him. I have never had one tell me a big one have you?


*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Loyd Pierce] #350674
Fri Aug 24 2012 12:35 PM
Fri Aug 24 2012 12:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,998
Yep
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Notchcad Offline
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Yep
Condition isn't there to bring that kind of money anyways IMO. Fake Or not. But again your are talking about a different breed of humans. Harley people can get a little out of control!

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Notchcad] #350678
Fri Aug 24 2012 01:03 PM
Fri Aug 24 2012 01:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,185
DFW Texas USA
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marxmobilgas Offline
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2 found on the net:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

one from ebay


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

both sides of another can



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If its a redo, its a good one.

I would think Harley would have gotten new blank cans to to put their graphics on, versus using the existing Shell can.
Unless where they were getting them from did use up old stock of other cans, in this case Shell.
Which would fall in line with the reprinted tin cans mentioned earlier.
These were for use, not for show, so they wouldnt have to be perfect.
Were they used at HD dealerships service area?

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Notchcad] #350679
Fri Aug 24 2012 01:07 PM
Fri Aug 24 2012 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,882
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
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Loyd Pierce Offline
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Originally Posted By: Notchcad
Condition isn't there to bring that kind of money anyways IMO. Fake Or not. But again your are talking about a different breed of humans. Harley people can get a little out of control!


I wasn't going to say that,afaird I would hit a nerve or two. Harley guys have been added two by doctors,lawlers, successfull business owners that owned bike way back when and want to try it again. Nothing wrong with that. They just don't look at the dollar the same as I do. SO EXPLAINS THE ORGINAL POST " WOW ".


*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Loyd Pierce] #350695
Fri Aug 24 2012 02:11 PM
Fri Aug 24 2012 02:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 382
Just North of Atlanta, Ga.
Here's Your Sign Offline
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Gotta think, back then Harley probably wasn't the powerhouse they are now. They had to compete with Indian and others. They may have seen a way to save a few grand and bought some old cans??


Eddy Smith
Call or Text: 678-232-4637
E-mail: eddysmithjr@gmail.com
Always looking for pump plates or small signs!
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Here's Your Sign] #350773
Fri Aug 24 2012 07:04 PM
Fri Aug 24 2012 07:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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Neat can with an interesting storied past...I think it's an original. Unable to determine for sure via photographs. But, easily determined if you were holding the can.


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #350922
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:01 AM
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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It is possible a HD Dealer applied the decal. Back before digital printing who else would have had access to that decal?
Unlikely that the can company would print over existing graphics.

Has anyone researched Harley Davidson history enough to find out WHO they bought their Oil from? I've never heard of them having their own Refinery.
Anyone know who supplied the oil/greases for;
Ford
Ford Tractors
John Deer
BSA
Indian M.C.
Cushman Motor Cycles
Rislone
Pep Boys
?????

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dick Bennett] #350929
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:14 AM
Sat Aug 25 2012 10:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,529
Parker, CO
powerlube Offline
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I think dick is on the right track.


Scott Wright
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: powerlube] #350952
Sat Aug 25 2012 11:55 AM
Sat Aug 25 2012 11:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Chicago Suburbs
I
iowaoil Offline
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Chicago Suburbs
So, I'm pretty sure that Harley Can is the real deal.

What was more availble in the last 90 years? Water slide decals. If I was asked to place a bet, I'd bet that's an old Shell decal that's actually flaking off of the Harley Can, not under the Harley logo. That'd sure make much more sense since a decal would flake more easily that the old cans we all have floating around.

I'd also suggest that the paint and patina on that can with similar colors looks spot on with a worn Hermoline 5 gallon rocker.

I asked the seller to take the can and look at it was a magnified glass...now he does suspect that it's actually a decal over the Harley logo.

As you may or may not know, most companies didn't actually print their own cans, and many companies didn't even own the cans until they used them! When the Iowa Oil Company went bankrupt in 2004, I bought a lot of old paperwork from them. I have the original company ledgers all the way back to their first day of business in 1905 through the late 50's.

I've read through thousands of entries in that ledger, they ordered cans from the Columbia Can Company, The St. Louis Tin & Sheet Metal Works (later the St. Louis Can Company, the make of the can in question here), and many more companies.

They too did not have their own refinery, but bought their gas and oil from companies such as Cities Service, Indian Refining, Standard, Valvoline, Monarch, and many more. Likely just repackaging their items in branding cans from bulk containers. They were buying train carloads of oil and rebranding. So if you see an Iowa Oil Company can, I can be 100% confident that they didn't do more than repackage or blend the oil thats inside.

If you think about it, this is the way you buy lots of things today...you're simply paying for the brand you buy. Go to Costco. Everything Branding Kirkland Signature (or at your local grocery store that's "store brand"), is likely made by a name brand, or a company that makes "store branded" items for hundreds of companies.

Finally, I can't tell you the number of times that I've found some cans that if you looked at the paint hard enough, you could see another brand underneath it! I've seen this on original cans as early as the 20's

I've pay way too much attention to quart cans. I've seen originals in the following formats:

Metal Can with 1 Design Printed over another
Metal Can with a different brand of paper label
Metal Can with an early metal can rebranded with a later paper label
Metal can that's printed with a different oil company or beer or food on the inside.

You see the same thing with signs, Sometimes if you look at the back in the right light you'll see some sort of food can that never made it to the shelf.

I just recently bought a few cans that had nice Crown/Crystal Flash cans from the 50's that had paper labels for some additive over them. A little elbow grese and boom!

In another example that I know I've seen alot of out there are Riley Brothers Cans. Their were some green/white paper label cans that are out there that have the earlier (and much cooler) Red & Yellow painted can underneath.

In closing, I'll get off of my can box and say, that Harley can is real, and holding it in person would simply prove it.


Collector of Illinois Oil Company, Iowa Oil Company, Round Outboard Motor Oil Quarts, St. Louis Gas Pumps, Double Cola, and anything else awesome.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: iowaoil] #350965
Sat Aug 25 2012 01:25 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 01:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Oil companies re-labeling cans w/ Paper Labels, I agree. But oil companies re-printing [lithographing] cans bought from can companies after they were received is a hard rock to swallow.

I have seen several cans that had other companies [not just oil] printed on Inside of oil cans & Lids.

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dick Bennett] #351013
Sat Aug 25 2012 05:51 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
H
henlovestoys Offline OP
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Wow! What a timing!

Here is one with a DECAL?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-...=item2ec1428b81


Last edited by henlovestoys; Sat Aug 25 2012 05:53 PM.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #351014
Sat Aug 25 2012 06:05 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 06:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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From what I've seen flat part of can was always silver/tin plate.

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #351039
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:09 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,818
Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Dave's Garage Offline
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That guy thinks his can with a decal and then clear coated is worth $750.00 Buy it Now. He also calls it a restoration. That`s just out right retarded!


Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #351049
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:45 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 07:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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It's ebay!

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: Dave's Garage] #351086
Sat Aug 25 2012 09:12 PM
Sat Aug 25 2012 09:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,152
Bay Area, CA
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henlovestoys Offline OP
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Found this AD


Last edited by henlovestoys; Sun Aug 26 2012 12:51 AM.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: henlovestoys] #351103
Sun Aug 26 2012 12:01 AM
Sun Aug 26 2012 12:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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& that has what to do w/ can being discussed?

Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: iowaoil] #351402
Mon Aug 27 2012 06:41 AM
Mon Aug 27 2012 06:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,648
Upstate SC, USA
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I have to agree with you.

Today packaging is so cheap and mass-produced there is no need/desire to relabel. However back in the 20s/30's this would have been common practice, it saved money, and was cheaper than ordering "virgin" packaging. Think about Henry Ford, he insisted that crating be very specific so that he could use the wood in his cars!

And as the country moved into the depression repurposing would be the norm. With labor so cheap in those days paying a guy to stencil or litho a can would have been more cost effective than ordering new cans.

Also, those who have the glass quart filler bottles know those bottles were used and reused for years, so extending the idea to cans is not a far stretch.

As to genuineness of the can, an immediate.. yep!




Originally Posted By: iowaoil
So, I'm pretty sure that Harley Can is the real deal.

What was more availble in the last 90 years? Water slide decals. If I was asked to place a bet, I'd bet that's an old Shell decal that's actually flaking off of the Harley Can, not under the Harley logo. That'd sure make much more sense since a decal would flake more easily that the old cans we all have floating around.

I'd also suggest that the paint and patina on that can with similar colors looks spot on with a worn Hermoline 5 gallon rocker.

I asked the seller to take the can and look at it was a magnified glass...now he does suspect that it's actually a decal over the Harley logo.

As you may or may not know, most companies didn't actually print their own cans, and many companies didn't even own the cans until they used them! When the Iowa Oil Company went bankrupt in 2004, I bought a lot of old paperwork from them. I have the original company ledgers all the way back to their first day of business in 1905 through the late 50's.

I've read through thousands of entries in that ledger, they ordered cans from the Columbia Can Company, The St. Louis Tin & Sheet Metal Works (later the St. Louis Can Company, the make of the can in question here), and many more companies.

They too did not have their own refinery, but bought their gas and oil from companies such as Cities Service, Indian Refining, Standard, Valvoline, Monarch, and many more. Likely just repackaging their items in branding cans from bulk containers. They were buying train carloads of oil and rebranding. So if you see an Iowa Oil Company can, I can be 100% confident that they didn't do more than repackage or blend the oil thats inside.

If you think about it, this is the way you buy lots of things today...you're simply paying for the brand you buy. Go to Costco. Everything Branding Kirkland Signature (or at your local grocery store that's "store brand"), is likely made by a name brand, or a company that makes "store branded" items for hundreds of companies.

Finally, I can't tell you the number of times that I've found some cans that if you looked at the paint hard enough, you could see another brand underneath it! I've seen this on original cans as early as the 20's

I've pay way too much attention to quart cans. I've seen originals in the following formats:

Metal Can with 1 Design Printed over another
Metal Can with a different brand of paper label
Metal Can with an early metal can rebranded with a later paper label
Metal can that's printed with a different oil company or beer or food on the inside.

You see the same thing with signs, Sometimes if you look at the back in the right light you'll see some sort of food can that never made it to the shelf.

I just recently bought a few cans that had nice Crown/Crystal Flash cans from the 50's that had paper labels for some additive over them. A little elbow grese and boom!

In another example that I know I've seen alot of out there are Riley Brothers Cans. Their were some green/white paper label cans that are out there that have the earlier (and much cooler) Red & Yellow painted can underneath.

In closing, I'll get off of my can box and say, that Harley can is real, and holding it in person would simply prove it.


Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: carolinaskies] #351418
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:29 AM
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Chicago Suburbs
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iowaoil Offline
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Chicago Suburbs
As I mentioned I reached out to the seller...made some suggestions, and bada bing!

The can is relisted, sans the Shell decal that was on TOP of the Harley Logo.


Collector of Illinois Oil Company, Iowa Oil Company, Round Outboard Motor Oil Quarts, St. Louis Gas Pumps, Double Cola, and anything else awesome.
Re: Harley-Davidson Rocker Can [Re: iowaoil] #351425
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:49 AM
Mon Aug 27 2012 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,882
Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
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Loyd Pierce Offline
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Iwoaoil may have deverted a mess if buyer was not happy with can as it was listed. Sounds like you have done your research on Iwoa oil. Lots of cans made by saint louis company all Pierce Pennant cans produce by them,even after central office moved operations to New York.


*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*
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