Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion New Member- Just acquired a Tokheim Model 870 A

I apologize if some of my questions have been answered before: I tried using the search function and wasn't having much luck.

This unit is complete except for the hose and nozzle. It has zero rust. As I understand it, it was originally in service in San Francisco. The serial number is 650793. Can anyone tell me the exact year of this unit? Is this a "desirable machine"?

I am in the process of restoring it and I am in need of parts. (It's at my body and paint guy, as we speak.) Can anyone offer advise? I will need a hose kit and nozzle. Also the Leaded Fuel metal signs. I am considering buying new clock face plates. Are the reproductions close to the originals? (One of mine is very nice, the other substantially discolored.) This pump has a block-off plate on top instead of a globe. Would that have been original? Where can I buy reproduction globes? Do these use standard incandescent bulbs? I disassembled the sight glass so the parts can be painted. I had to scrape out a material that sealed it at each end, that looked like Bondo. (?) How do I go about sealing it properly, upon reassembly. Sorry for all the questions.

In my opinion I would not restore this pump... It looks great as it is... my 2 cents for what is worth.... Tom

Click on "parts" on the toolbar menu at the top of this page. There are several suppliers offering reproduction globes.

Using a fluorescent/incandescent 13-15W bulb inside the globe will light it great and not burn too hot and saves energy.

They usually sell 3-5packs fairly cheap in Lowe's or Home Depot.

Tom- I am a big fan of unrestored/original items also. (I have a '68 Porsche 912 soft window Targa, 49,000 original miles, original paint and interior.... love it!)

If this was original paint, I would agree. Unfortunately, this piece has been painted five times and has runs all over it. They never sanded the previous coats and painted right over all the decals. Very sloppy. You can't see how bad it looks unless you see it in person. But the good news is that it is straight, rust-free and complete.

Best to use the GOOGLE Search feature at bottom of this page, Select OUR SITE EXCEPT SHOP TALK,CLASSIFIEDS [from drop down menu].

Your pump is an 870-A 1933-1935. Standard issue w/ a globe ring & cap.
Check w/ your local Fuel Bulk Dealer for Hose & nozzle [never know what he just might give/ADD something to your collection!].
While your there ask if they have any Globes, signs, cans, maps, old pumps/parts or if they know of any around that might be For Sale.

MOST here will say to leave as is. BUT, IT'S your pump Do as you wish.

Would your '68 Porsche 912 soft window Targa have looked as good if it had been sitting in same barn for the last 50-70 years? LOL

Please leave that pump alone. It is the original paint. They used to paint them like that while they were still hooked up. You can't just make it like that again

Dick- Thanks for the info re: year of manufacture and advise for parts. And my Targa was in fact in a barn/garage, albeit for only 22 years.

Kyle- It is not original paint. I am sure they didn't "originally" paint green over the original red paint and decals, then yellow on top of that, then green on top of that, then red on top of that, all while adding decals and brushing paint all over three I.D. tags, so thick that you can't read anything. Not to mention drips running down the glass. The paint was so thick and sloppy that I couldn't even open the sheet metal to access the internals. If it was original paint and scratched and beat to hell, I would leave it. Believe me (and I am more of a purist than almost anybody I know), this is not worth leaving alone. (In my humble opinion.) But I am asking for advise and I do appreciate your input.

Welcome to OldGas.
My vote is to leave as-is. It's only original once, and this one has a lot of character that you can't duplicate. I remember painting pumps when I worked at a Standard station, while in high school; and we didn't care if they had runs, or five coats of paint. After we got the pump done, we re-painted the island to cover up the drips from the pump.
Just my two cents!!

Buddy

WELCOME I am also fairly new to this game also. I grew up in a UNION 76 station and I still remember the painters coming up from Seattle to freshen up our station every few years. The pair would drink a 6 pack of beer on the way up and be ready for work. Everything painted with a 6 inch wide brush!! They could cut out the diamond window panes with the same brush. Coffee break -- more beer. Lunch more beer. Lots of runs, but a fresh look, new decals. My vote also---Leave it original !! Jim

David, that is how pumps were maintained.... A pump was in constant use, it was the "Life Blood" of the Gas Station... Especially if that station was small and had a marginal or even no service bays....

Early pumps were painted using paint brushes and whatever paint that was available.... The small Flying A station I worked at, we would take a hand-held wire brush to a pump to remove any loose rust and/or debris... And start slapping the paint on very early in the morning... We always painted the end of July through August.... The wind was down and it got HOT fast... So by 7:30 in the morning the paint was tacky and the pump was ready for business... By noon the paint was cured enough that a decal was slapped on... By 5 the paint had dried enough that door dings weren't noticeable....

Of course it is up to you.... If I owned your pump, I would add a hose and nozzle... Most likely a repop globe (I'm cheap) and enjoy the look..... But that's me....

This is so interesting to me... in the car world, a vehicle with five coats of paint, wouldn't be considered original. But with these pumps, it is.

If my '69 Porsche had been painted sloppily 5 times before (one coat on top of the other) at Earl Schibe (sp?), would it be wrong to strip it down and do it right?

I don't ask this to be argumentative, more so I can understand if the petroliana industry is that different from the car collecting.

Cars weren't branded with graphics, grades of gas or brands based on time periods. Brands were bought out so pumps were repainted to match that new brand. A car is made at a factory and painted originally once. Pumps were always changed? History lies in layers on that pump..

If it were mine I would not restore it. Is it striped yet? I would trade for a pump you could restore. I am in Nor. Cal also.

Man id strip it down and paint it porsche red with some original 911 emblems and paint the top kinda like it had a targa top itself! That would look amazing and go well with the car!

Earl Scheib was in the business of painting cars.
Gas Pumps were made to pump gas & station operators didn't spend all day painting a pump. Most hired a local kid or had Their own kid for MAYBE $.50-$1 a day to paint w/ a 3" Brush!


YES, IF you were a Die Hard Earl Scheib COLLECTOR! LOL

Matt, WHEN did you start collecting Clock Face Pumps?

I'm a new collector and new to pumps as well. First off, it is your pump and you can restore it or not to your desire. That being said, your pump as-is looks great, even with the paint over paint and decals flashing underneath. All you would need to do is clean it up and wire it for lights. Bam! One cool looking pump, country style.

But, it sounds like you're already in the process. It'll look great when complete. If you're looking for parts, just place a posting in the Want to Buy forum for what parts you are looking for. There are also many resources under the Parts tab of the home page. Also, in the For Sale forum, you might find another member selling the parts you need.

Also, you can try attending a Gas Bash or swap meet. I see you're in Nor Cal. There's Fred Stoke's Gas Bash in Santa Rosa on September 21 and 22. This is the first time I'm attending but I understand that this would be a great place to look and learn. Asking questions there and on Oldgas is usually not a problem. These guys are very knowledgable and willing to give out their advice. You're probably discovering that now. Anyways, you're in the right place.

Maybe consider picking up some books on gas pumps. PCM's Guide to Restoration and Jack Sim's Pump Identification Guide are the first that come to mind.

Good luck with your pump and be sure to post progress pictures. I'd love to see how it all comes out.

Ron

db, I did not start collecting clocks. I have two and had three others. I like 870-As and nice as is unrestored pumps. That is why I would not mind having this pump, thats all.

Matt.. I have a 870 just like that with a signal badge in orange with original paint.. 2000 ??? Tom

Clinton your sooo full of *****! All you want is original pumps! Your just telling him that cause it's to far from home for you to save it !

BTW. I love restoring my pumps but I would leave that one alone.

You told me $3K, Tom!

But Dad !!!

Ron- Thanks for your informative post. I will heed your advise and pick up those books. I will try to make it to the show in Santa Rosa. Regarding sending pictures: I'm a bit spooked at this point. People might start throwing tomatoes and booing me!

I'm used to people giving me a bad time because I like to leave things original and they insist that they should be restored. It's weird being on the opposite end!

drdcon.... Is this the color green that was painted over and maybe the yellow was kind of a cream color?
It looks like they painted the cream and green over red and then I'm guessing the next color would have been red as I have found a few pumps like that too.
I know of a Wayne 60 and 40-A that are painted all red just like yours with the same 3 decals and they are original.
Yours sure looks original to me and at least on the computer screen it looks good enough to leave as it, but you are the one who has to be happy with it.
I really appreciate your sharing the before picture.
Have fun with it whichever way you decide to go and welcome to the site.

The problem here is that I see a lot of guys telling you to leave it alone and a few aluding to restoring it. What they are ignoring is the satisfaction of restoring something.

I have been finding and restoring items since the late 1950s, I have restored many gas pumps, but I don't care what they look like when I started, it's what did they look like when I was finished?
If you leave the pump as it is, I will guarantee you that the first guy you show it to will ask you, "Are you going to restore it?"
To me restoring an item is preserving a piece of the past, if you leave it as it is, you are just storing an item, and hoping whoever finds it doesn't scrap it out.

My greatest satisfacation is being able to say "See what I just restored."

Jack Sim

Sometimes "Restored"="Destroyed"

more than sometimes.....:(

Hey men, it's not the Mona Lisa it's a gas pump. Strip that ugly beast and put some nice paint on it. I used to be in the gasoline business and the reason they brush painted them in my area was because the station owner owned them and was too cheap to do them right or they were taken out of service and sent out to a farm etc. Back in those days money was also a lot more harder to acquire and fancy paint on a gas pump was unheard of. I remember my dad going to Gambles Hardware store and buying a qt. of black auto paint and a brush. The old 50 Hudson went from faded blue to black in a hour, the old days and old ways.Not that way today!

That pump is way too cool as is. I love the decals. I vote to leave it as is if it is not too late!!

In my opinion, you definitely have one of the best looking clock-face pumps that I have seen. A very desirable one. A lot of them are just plain-jane and some even ugly. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Enjoy your pump anyway you want to. Cheers, Don.

I love the passion!

Terry, thanks for the support. Jack, you hit the nail on the head... bringing something back to the condition that it was intended to be, is a fulfilling thing. My theory has always been that if it's original and operational, leave it alone. Celebrate it's scars! They each have a story. But if it's been modified, painted and messed with already, might as well bring it back to it's glory days.

Another thing that fascinates me: I've been told by a few gas pump collectors that it's best to gut the machine so that it's easier to transport. This seems to me to be the opposite of what a purist would want to do. Is this the general consensus here? I think that would be a shame. Since mine is complete, I am considering going through it and making it operational. Maybe put it on a small stand with a tank under it and a filler neck sticking up. I could demonstrate/display it by pumping water.... maybe with a hint of yellow food coloring to look like fuel. I just think it would be neat to see this operational, restored unit and the site glass filling with water, see the clock-dial spin and hear the DING of the bell after every gallon. Call me weird.... but THAT would be a more fulfilling scenario for me than a battered, non-original deteriorated pump.

A few thoughts:
1. Since you are new, you might think it through before starting on such a nice pump in great condition. Once its done, there is no going back.
2. You might rethink the water thing. These pumps were for petroleum that self lubricates and prevents rust. Yes, it will pump, but not for long without damage.
3. Clinton is yanking your chain! As 983Jeremy stated, he doesn't want anything not original.
4. IMO, the pump probably won't be worth much more to many people after you have restored it.
5. I have some over-restored pumps. Some restored, and many unrestored. I enjoy all of them for what they are, but the further I go, the more I appreciate the originals.
6. Its your pump. Do what you like!

Imagine what the Ancient Egyptians would say about us wanting to Mummify these pumps w/ the Guts intact? LOL
They did save the Guts AFTER they removed from body!

Dick LOL!! Where do you come up with these analogies!!

RESTORE IT. It is NOT original the way it is now. It has been customized. Bring it back to the way it was when it left the factory or its first paint job. Not a brush job by some kid or a cheap gas station owner. Make it look like the original designer intended and make him proud. By not restoring it , you leave a lot of history buried under the paint. A number of previously unknown decals of little known companies have been found during a restoration. Most of all, do what YOU want.

Nah, don't worry about posting pictures. If they throw tomatoes, make salsa. You're in California! Besides, once you show how nice the pump turns out, they'll show you some love.

David,
Take into consideration that a lot of guys in Midwest, North, South & East of Calif don't find RUST FREE Complete pumps that are easy to restore w/o replacing most if not all the sheet metal & small parts!

My $.02 is that it would be a crying shame to strip and restore. I love it the way it is. If it were mine I would re-wire, put a globe, hose, etc. on it and enjoy. I have several pumps that I used to think I wanted to restore. I am so glad now that I did not make that mistake. Great pump! One of my favorites and hope to own one some day.
Mike

...well, we're not allowed to tell you if it looks horrible, either...