Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Showcase and Stories, Petroliana Wayne 861/40--OR--864 ??

About a month ago I was at an auction sale where there were 2 clock face pumps and the sale was attended by another Old Gasser and myself. I ended up letting him stay and buy the pumps and have first choice since he was there first and I would take the other one. I didn't know at the time that it was a very rare Wayne crossover pump that shared the characteristics of both the Wayne 40 and the Wayne 861 clockface!
When I realized what it was, I tried to buy the pump but to no avail! OK, meant to be I guess, but here is where the story gets interesting! Someone in Minnesota posts another pump like the one I wanted, on ebay (121000300506) , and its the day before I leave for Peotone! I put it on my watch list and watched it every day while I was at Peotone and had several conversations with other pump guys at Peotone and found out that several of my friends had bids on this very pump! The discussion centered around the rarity of the pump and the value of it. I was fortunate enough that I was able to convince several of these friends to not bid any furthur on it, as I really wanted it bad! The only unknown problem was the more than 100 watchers that the listing had and any one of them could have felt the same way and be willing to bid a bunch more than me! Well, a lot of the time, you just have to go with fate and believe that if its meant to be--it will be!
The pump was scheduled to end on monday afternoon and I would be on the road home at the time. CHANGE OF PLANS--- I stopped at my sons house in Minneapolis and waited around until monday afternoon and then drove over to the general area where the pump was located. I called home and got the Warden to get to the computer right after work and do the bidding for me! I talked her thru the sniping process and as soon as the dust settled, I hurried over and loaded up my prize!
Now this brings us to the curious parts about this pump! It has a Wayne 40 top, base and frame, and sheet metal! Where the veeder root would be located is a strange framework that supports a Wayne clock mechanism with Wayne 861 faces on it! The bezels look an awful lot like 40 bezels but are different in many ways, but they do have an 861 bezel screwed to the face of this unusual bezel! The light shades resemble those of a 40 but are screwed to the front of the bezel and are different. The clock is reset from the same crank that a 40 would be.
The 861 faces are just a bit too wide for the 40 frame railes, so they notched out the frame about 1/4 inch on each side to accomadate the extra width.
Everything else about this pump is the same as a Wayne 40--the clock mechanism and the face treatment are the only real diversions. The tag aon this particular pump lists it as an 861/40 and the pump that Tom Schilling has, is listed as an 864? Why is that and why did they even make this pump? Left over parts? Seems like a lot of work to make the new "computer type" pump into an older style clockface??
Anyway, here are the pictures of it and if anyone has any questions on it, give me a call! TO BE RESTORED NEXT SPRING!

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My guess is that they ran out of 40 meters when they were going into production of the 40-A. They were still producing the 861 so they used those meters. Just a guess. Richard

...not to get too off-topic, but, in my mind, a more important question is: was this pump gutted when you got it?

"...I was at Peotone and had several conversations with other pump guys at Peotone....the discussion centered around the rarity of the pump and the value of it."

...I would think such a weird, rare 'hybrid' pump would be worth saving INTACT...

Internals were the same as any Wayne 40. I gutted it myself but I still have the internals. You can see them laying on the floor by the overhead door.
I know there are opposing points of view on the guts issue but I really don't like having them in the pump.
Future value or historic significance---who knows???

Kevin-- Mine was the same way it looked like they took all the left over parts to make a pump... Mine originaly had the pump mechanism still intac... Goofy pump but look neat when it is all together.. Tom

WRONG.
Even through WAYNE had a large interest/stock in Veeder-Root, they could sell a New pump w/ a Clock Meter [Non Calculating Price] for less by not having to pay a Royalty to Veeder-Root & stay competitive w/ other pump companies selling to commercial accounts of non-selling use of fuel.

Weights & Measure of most states required all retail sales of Fuel to have the VR installed in all pumps.

BENNETT [154 etc], BOWSER [555, etc], DAYTON [1230, 1420,etc] & Neptune Meter Company [cash recording meters], all tried their hands & making a Calculating Mech. instead of having to pay the Royalty for using the Veeder-Root.

Thank you for the info DB.. TOM

Can't wait to see that baby done, should be fun Kev


grant

DB--I understand why they would continue to make a clock type pump and not pay the royalties but that could be accomplished with the 861. Why take the time and effort to modify their new pump design to accomodate the clock mechanism when they already had a good functioning clock pump in the 861? Do you suppose they used the new 40 frame just in the name of style and possible greater sales, or was it an immediate need that they couldn't fill with the old frame,because of phasing out the 861?
Whatever the reason for the decision to produce this pump, why were there so few produced if the need was there?

For the same Fricken reason WAYNE made the 866 & 876!
TOKHEIM did the 36, 36B & 39.
G&B did the 97 & 297.

For the same reason your driving a 2009-12 Pickup when a 1967 would still be doing just as good of a job?

Regardless of the reason they had for doing the pump that way, I think it's a way cool pump to own.
I was one of the watchers but I did not bid.
Glad to see you got it Kevin.

WE will never know how many pumps not in use were scraped in WW2. BUT WE did win the war thanks to the scrap drives.

Awesome pump, Kevin.

LOL--DB--I drive an 04 Chevy with 140,000 miles on it because I spend my money on these pumps! LOL

I'm sure there are a lot of easy answers to "WHY", when it comes to gas pumps and I'm sure a lot of those questions will forever go unanswered. Gone along with those souls that got to make the daily decisions that directed the companies paths of production!
This is just the first pump that I've ever seen that evoked so many questions from my feeble old mind! I've worked on a lot of pumps in the last few years and even have a lot of the parts memorized but never have I been so fascinated as to "WHY" a pump company did what they did!
It just intrigues me to the point that I can actually get excited about working on the thing and my mind gets totally lost in the activity! I haven't enjoyed a gas pump this much since I found my first 36B and restored it all by myself!
Maybe I'm still too much of a newbie to not get excited about a rare pump and the reasons it was built, but I hope I never lose the interest that this pump has generated within me! I hope it keeps my interest up for years to come! I can't wait to restore this thing, but it will have to wait until next spring, as I have knee replacement surgery scheduled in 2 weeks!