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#377548 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:13 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
57tbirdkid Offline
TBA Feature Host

Registered: Tue May 04 2010
Loc: NY
It does not matter if the sign is different or not...someone added neon to a sign that was not originally a neon sign....that is destructive to the hobby and done for greed period!!


Edited by 57tbirdkid (Fri Dec 14 2012 11:13 AM)
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#377552 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:23 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 57tbirdkid]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Gosh it's not the same sign.. so how do you know it's not original neon smarty pants?
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#377554 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:24 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 10 2009
Loc: New Mexico
I don't think what "everyone on Ebay" does is the issue.This thread seems to me to address one particular sign.

I will restrict my comment to answering JJ's original question,"Is this really good for our hobby?".No I do not think so.I say that because,in general,I think it will encourage more such alterations of other original pieces.In the interests of peace I'll leave it at that at this point.

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#377555 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:29 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Ryan Underthun Offline
Moderator

Registered: Thu Nov 07 2002
Loc: Duluth, MN U.S.A
Originally Posted By: carolinaskies
Gosh it's not the same sign.. so how do you know it's not original neon smarty pants?



I will bite... I have been called much worse than "smarty pants".


I just need to make one point. The listing clearly states that the neon and can are new. Why would anybody make a new can for a sign when they could just restore it like they did to the sign? I will tell you why, because the sign probably never had a can on it.
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#377556 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:37 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Ryan Underthun]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Ryan, either you don't get out often or something because I see A LOT of neon porcelain faces without cans and have sold many.

You know why?

Because the can wasn't porcelain, could be easily be turned into scrap compared to the porcelain faces which would have had to been beaten to death to remove the porcelain making it impractical.

Further, it's easier to hang a single face off a neon than the whole can. Also, alot of pickers would rather sell 2 faces than 1 can needing neon because they don't want to put money into the piece.
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#377557 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:41 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Ryan Underthun Offline
Moderator

Registered: Thu Nov 07 2002
Loc: Duluth, MN U.S.A
So... why would you put a can on a sign that did not have one? Why not keep it "Original"?
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#377558 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:41 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Ryan Underthun]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Use Beer to wash the Valium down, it'll double the effects.

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#377559 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:48 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
LOL, the Valium isn't working on some of these guys, they better drink more than a few beers.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377560 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:55 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Has this seller done something criminal...no. Has he done something wrong....yes. But, it depends on which side of the fence you are on. Ownership has it's privileges...the choices afforded by ownership should be made in a balanced and a responsible manner.

Paul, we always tend to be on the other side of the fence from each other. We see things differently when it comes to collecting and selling. That is a good thing, because most times your posts and differing opinions make me see things from a different perspective.

I'm with Jarvis and Cold pizza, that this is more then likely the same sign. Ray sold his to a guy in Massachusetts with phone number 978-407-6718. Guess what Paul same location and phone number for the e-Bay listing. Maybe it's you that needs to quit taking the Valium and let your testosterone levels rise. And get angry at this sorta of butchering of signs.

This kinda *****, should make everyone stop and think (including you Paul).

Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you can do whatever you like with it. Because you own your car does it give you the right to drive or equip it like you want? Ownership isn't and can't be your ticket to be greedy and destructive in the pursuit of profit. A conscience is a good thing. Ownership comes with a certain amount of responsibility.

I think it's time that we kept track of people that destroy items and refuse to sell them items.

Rather then bicker between ourselves we need to take a united approach to these greedy people. I'm a collector and not driven by profit...I have refused to sell items to people in the past because I didn't feel they would be appropriate custodians of these items for future generations to enjoy.

Paul, even you must feel some level of disgust when you look at that neoned Red Indian sign. It's a crime in the collector world that I'm a card carrying member of.



Edited by Dave's Garage (Fri Dec 14 2012 11:58 AM)
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Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#377564 - Fri Dec 14 2012 12:02 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dave's Garage]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
I have to go do some work now and won't be able to participate in this discussion till later. Darn it, I'm going to be thinking of this thread. Wish, I could sit here all day and be a part of it.

This is an interesting topic hopefully guys won't get too worked up and get it locked.
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Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#377565 - Fri Dec 14 2012 12:07 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
57tbirdkid Offline
TBA Feature Host

Registered: Tue May 04 2010
Loc: NY
Haha that's funny.... Seems like for a picker you must know it all esp on pricing and authenticity where you are most vocal... Do you even care about the historical significance or are YOU just in it for the money?
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#377573 - Fri Dec 14 2012 12:53 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 57tbirdkid]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
LOL, have to laugh, none of the decrying people have proven anything other than the number on eBay matches a number from a post on Oldgas. The sign got sold to someone, the original thread has nothing to indicate who bought it!

Having seen,bought,sold many many signs, I have no issue with restorations on signs when it is identified up front by the seller.

Besides signs I deal in vintage toys and I sell to people who want mint orignal, original played with, and even restored and custom toys. These buyers look past modifications to personal preference. The same holds true for pretty much any collected item. It's BUYERS preference.

10 years, 20 years, 40 years down the road the same is going to be true. In any market Buyers drive what prices are paid. If no one buys a modified sign for $25K the price will come down, if someone want's to pay $40K for the sign in 10 years then today's buyer makes money. If they want to pay $5k then today's buyer overpaid.

Guys with deep pockets will spend money where they want, regardless of what you as a collector think is right, reasonable, or responsible. If you are a buyer collector only and not a seller then you can buy what you want for as much as you are willing to pay. For those who are simply pickers, we buy then sell for a living. We hope to make as much as we can, most more honestly than a few who don't care about anything but the money.

For me, I'd rather see a sign being hung than be scrapped out for a couple of bucks. I handle plenty of barn hangers, and if the buyer wants to restore it, it's his money spent not mine. I'm sure the guy who buys a sign and puts neon on it is hoping he'll find a buyer who will return his expenses plus profit. If it happens to be 5x what he's got invested I have no problem with it.

When a mint common sign is modified to a neon I have no issue with that. When a much less than mint sign is modified to a neon I still have no issue with that. Someone who buys it is going to enjoy it, people will see it and enjoy it, and sometime down the line it will be back on the market for someone else to enjoy. It won't get scrapped for pennies. So really I have no issue. We aren't talking the Mona Lisa, a Picasso, a Monet, a marble statue, all one of a kind pieces.

You want to preserve the history of Petrol, the best way to do it is to expose more people to it. Some will become collectors, some will simply enjoy the signs. Museums have been built to display the past history of man to the public. Old advertising signs are bought by Restaurants and other stores for display, for atmosphere. Many more people get to see those signs than the thousands of signs held in private collections which may only be seen by a handful of people.

There are always going to be the Jack Sims, Dick Bennetts and others who are the caretakers of the history of petrol advertising.

I know plenty of collectors who know far less about their own signs than I do. And when someone asks me about signs or toys I have for sale, I do my best to educate them not simply on value but history. I do this every week talking with common people not collectors, do you?
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377576 - Fri Dec 14 2012 01:21 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dave's Garage]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Dave's Garage
Has this seller done something criminal...no. Has he done something wrong....yes. But, it depends on which side of the fence you are on. Ownership has it's privileges...the choices afforded by ownership should be made in a balanced and a responsible manner.

Paul, we always tend to be on the other side of the fence from each other. We see things differently when it comes to collecting and selling. That is a good thing, because most times your posts and differing opinions make me see things from a different perspective.

I'm with Jarvis and Cold pizza, that this is more then likely the same sign. Ray sold his to a guy in Massachusetts with phone number 978-407-6718. Guess what Paul same location and phone number for the e-Bay listing. Maybe it's you that needs to quit taking the Valium and let your testosterone levels rise. And get angry at this sorta of butchering of signs.

This kinda *****, should make everyone stop and think (including you Paul).

Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you can do whatever you like with it. Because you own your car does it give you the right to drive or equip it like you want? Ownership isn't and can't be your ticket to be greedy and destructive in the pursuit of profit. A conscience is a good thing. Ownership comes with a certain amount of responsibility.

I think it's time that we kept track of people that destroy items and refuse to sell them items.

Rather then bicker between ourselves we need to take a united approach to these greedy people. I'm a collector and not driven by profit...I have refused to sell items to people in the past because I didn't feel they would be appropriate custodians of these items for future generations to enjoy.

Paul, even you must feel some level of disgust when you look at that neoned Red Indian sign. It's a crime in the collector world that I'm a card carrying member of.



x2...
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Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#377582 - Fri Dec 14 2012 02:11 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: gulfiend!]
TJammer Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Dec 05 2012
Loc: North Bay Ontario
I dont know if its the same sign or not...But if that was my sign that I sold him...I'd be a little upset to see what was done to it..

Probably sooo.. upset I'd want to call the Cops..!!..and have him charged with "Mental Abuse"..

I wonder.??..would there actually be anybody out there, that would do that to a Beautiful sign like that..Somebody that is that Money Driven, that they don't give 2 hoots about preservation......
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#377589 - Fri Dec 14 2012 02:47 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Carolinaskies, Someone told me the signs are the same. Guy selling doesn't even know it's a 5' sign to begin with. He was in the shop where the neon was put on and knows where the sign come from and who it went to.
Trust me... the guy telling me knows his stuff, it's the same sign!

I am not here to point fingers... it's the principle of taking a nice original sign and destroying it for money!


Originally Posted By: carolinaskies
LOL, have to laugh, none of the decrying people have proven anything other than the number on eBay matches a number from a post on Oldgas. The sign got sold to someone, the original thread has nothing to indicate who bought it!

Having seen,bought,sold many many signs, I have no issue with restorations on signs when it is identified up front by the seller.

Besides signs I deal in vintage toys and I sell to people who want mint orignal, original played with, and even restored and custom toys. These buyers look past modifications to personal preference. The same holds true for pretty much any collected item. It's BUYERS preference.

10 years, 20 years, 40 years down the road the same is going to be true. In any market Buyers drive what prices are paid. If no one buys a modified sign for $25K the price will come down, if someone want's to pay $40K for the sign in 10 years then today's buyer makes money. If they want to pay $5k then today's buyer overpaid.

Guys with deep pockets will spend money where they want, regardless of what you as a collector think is right, reasonable, or responsible. If you are a buyer collector only and not a seller then you can buy what you want for as much as you are willing to pay. For those who are simply pickers, we buy then sell for a living. We hope to make as much as we can, most more honestly than a few who don't care about anything but the money.

For me, I'd rather see a sign being hung than be scrapped out for a couple of bucks. I handle plenty of barn hangers, and if the buyer wants to restore it, it's his money spent not mine. I'm sure the guy who buys a sign and puts neon on it is hoping he'll find a buyer who will return his expenses plus profit. If it happens to be 5x what he's got invested I have no problem with it.

When a mint common sign is modified to a neon I have no issue with that. When a much less than mint sign is modified to a neon I still have no issue with that. Someone who buys it is going to enjoy it, people will see it and enjoy it, and sometime down the line it will be back on the market for someone else to enjoy. It won't get scrapped for pennies. So really I have no issue. We aren't talking the Mona Lisa, a Picasso, a Monet, a marble statue, all one of a kind pieces.

You want to preserve the history of Petrol, the best way to do it is to expose more people to it. Some will become collectors, some will simply enjoy the signs. Museums have been built to display the past history of man to the public. Old advertising signs are bought by Restaurants and other stores for display, for atmosphere. Many more people get to see those signs than the thousands of signs held in private collections which may only be seen by a handful of people.

There are always going to be the Jack Sims, Dick Bennetts and others who are the caretakers of the history of petrol advertising.

I know plenty of collectors who know far less about their own signs than I do. And when someone asks me about signs or toys I have for sale, I do my best to educate them not simply on value but history. I do this every week talking with common people not collectors, do you?

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Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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