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#377504 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:17 AM greed is the only thing to describe this....
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Is this really good for our hobby?

before

After

This is the kind of stuff that hurts our hobby. Took a nice sign and restored it then cut it up and put neon on it. This has to be the only hobby where you can take a antique collectible and destroy it and sell it for more money.
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#377507 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:29 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Wes Maxwell Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Oct 15 2004
Loc: Central Ohio
Is that the same sign? Ray had it listed as a 5 footer, the one on ebay is listed as a 72 inch. I see what you are saying but I think the same thing goes on with old cars. A lot are turned into resto mods and chopped hot rods and stuff also.
_________________________
US Air Force Retired, 1981-2007

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#377508 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:29 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
canman Offline
Active Member

Registered: Thu Aug 23 2012
Loc: NY
terrible. That sign is destroyed..Loved the before look of it

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#377509 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:31 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: canman]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Not sure if it's the same sign or not...
It's a example of the stuff that goes on in this hobby.
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377512 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:39 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Dr Dave Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Jul 28 2011
Loc: Georgia
Who is at greater fault?
The one who butchered the sign or the one who buys it for 25k?!
I guess if there were no market for it, it would not be produced.

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#377514 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:56 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dr Dave]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Wes, The guy in the first listing said he would take the sign and put his phone number down... then the ebay ad has the same sign and the same phone number.
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377524 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:14 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Jarvis, I think first you are making a big assumption that this is the same guy based on his one post that he would take the sign.

Second, it's not the same sign. It's obvious if you look at the sign. Take more than 10 seconds, compare the two signs side by side.. notice a major difference? C'mon it's easy.

Now as to whether taking one sign and turning it into something else that it never was, if the seller discloses the change then it's between the buyer and that seller. If on the other hand the seller wants to be dishonest then lets string him up by his thumbs!

You know as well as I that most pump restorers don't always restore a pump to the brand it started out. Plenty of lea way is given in that respect. That's not seen as sacrilegious even though it's similar in kind. I know, a pump is a far cry from a sign, but the idea is the same, making it something that specific pump never was in it's life.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377531 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:27 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
BTW, There's a great 2005 article & pics on McColl on this site. Check it out. COTM from 2005
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377532 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:33 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...I agree that this is as bad for the hobby as unmarked repros - but with all due respect to Jarvis, the hobby be damned - the HISTORY is what's being destroyed, in the name of the Almighty Dollar...the one who butchered the sign is the one to blame...

...we have to get off of this "it's his, he can do what he wants to" BS...we're all just saving this stuff for posterity - which means we're supposed to be PRESERVING IT...

...the guy that butchers a Red Indian sign like this, so he can cash in selling neon to Dimbulb Deeppockets, is worse the farmer who lets an unused pump rot in a field, only in the respect that his destruction is aggressive and not passive...
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#377534 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:40 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
It doesn't matter if it's the same sign or different... it's the point behind taking an original sign and destroying it for profit and profit alone.
I am noting that the sign Ray had was a nice sign and was $3,600... same kind of sign wih new paint and new neon is now $25,000?

If your restoring a sign then putting neon on it... why not just take a plain piece of metal, paint it to what ever you want and put neon on it? It's still the exact same thing in the end right!
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377535 - Fri Dec 14 2012 10:16 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
Originally Posted By: carolinaskies


Second, it's not the same sign. It's obvious if you look at the sign. Take more than 10 seconds, compare the two signs side by side.. notice a major difference? C'mon it's easy.



Explain the difference?, owner says sign was restored and neoned, other than that I am seeing the same.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#377536 - Fri Dec 14 2012 10:16 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Craig Osbeck Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 06 2009
Loc: Portland Oregon
I saw that on ebay last night. Way too busy with the colors of neon for me, and yes what a way to ruin a sign. This I see is happening to a lot of good signs. More unsuspecting people will be drawn to these manifestations. Sorry just feel that this one is over the top.
_________________________
Craig

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#377539 - Fri Dec 14 2012 10:38 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Boys boys... count to 10 and take a Valium.

The sign sold through OG was 5ft, center was black/red, dbl sided porcelain. On Ebay, it's 6ft, center is ALL BLACK, (not indicated as dbl sided), indicated as restored which may be sign or simply the box/neon/power unit.

If you took more time and Valium and less testosterone and time spent jumping to conclusions you might look at what the guy has offered up, sold, and his overall rating. Jarvis should be ashamed of himself for using this example.

Sure there are some unscrupulous people out there. But you know there are over 9 Billion, that's right Billion with a "B" that if even 1% collected petrol stuff you'd never be able to buy an original item as cheap as you have again. There are many people with beer budgets that buy repop/fantasy and maybe one day they will be able to buy the real stuff. Then there's the snob collector who will spend what is some peoples entire year salary or more on one item. And then there's everyone in between. The market is going to change and expand to attempt to meet the money that's out there, it's a fact.

As I said in an earlier post, if someone has modified a piece it's between them and the buyer as to price and honesty. There are always going to be sheisters who try to pass something off as original when it isn't, but they aren't the norm and no one should be acting like they are on every street corner hawking their stuff.

It is the collectors responsibility to be informed, intelligent, and savvy.

As for selling stuff for profit, I'd rather complain about the gas/oil companies profiting from every American than 1 guy selling an neon sign to someone for $25K. My priorities are my pocketbook rather than the guy who's got that kind of money to burn.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377545 - Fri Dec 14 2012 10:58 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Cold Pizza Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois
The one on ebay has a black/red porcelain background.
Look closer at it,you can see it with the zoom.

Other then the 5ft. vs. 6ft. description,if I was a betting man,(and I am),my money is on that this is the same sign Ray sold him 3 mos.ago.
..and Rays was a single sided like the one for sale on ebay now,not a double.


Edited by Cold Pizza (Fri Dec 14 2012 06:18 PM)

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#377546 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:03 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Cold Pizza]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Two different signs. You guys need to get over this desire to castigate everyone on eBay.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377548 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:13 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
57tbirdkid Offline
TBA Feature Host

Registered: Tue May 04 2010
Loc: NY
It does not matter if the sign is different or not...someone added neon to a sign that was not originally a neon sign....that is destructive to the hobby and done for greed period!!


Edited by 57tbirdkid (Fri Dec 14 2012 11:13 AM)
_________________________
The most valuable commodity I know of is information-Wall Street

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#377552 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:23 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 57tbirdkid]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Gosh it's not the same sign.. so how do you know it's not original neon smarty pants?
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377554 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:24 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 10 2009
Loc: New Mexico
I don't think what "everyone on Ebay" does is the issue.This thread seems to me to address one particular sign.

I will restrict my comment to answering JJ's original question,"Is this really good for our hobby?".No I do not think so.I say that because,in general,I think it will encourage more such alterations of other original pieces.In the interests of peace I'll leave it at that at this point.

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#377555 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:29 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Ryan Underthun Online   content
Moderator

Registered: Thu Nov 07 2002
Loc: Duluth, MN U.S.A
Originally Posted By: carolinaskies
Gosh it's not the same sign.. so how do you know it's not original neon smarty pants?



I will bite... I have been called much worse than "smarty pants".


I just need to make one point. The listing clearly states that the neon and can are new. Why would anybody make a new can for a sign when they could just restore it like they did to the sign? I will tell you why, because the sign probably never had a can on it.
_________________________
FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com

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#377556 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:37 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Ryan Underthun]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Ryan, either you don't get out often or something because I see A LOT of neon porcelain faces without cans and have sold many.

You know why?

Because the can wasn't porcelain, could be easily be turned into scrap compared to the porcelain faces which would have had to been beaten to death to remove the porcelain making it impractical.

Further, it's easier to hang a single face off a neon than the whole can. Also, alot of pickers would rather sell 2 faces than 1 can needing neon because they don't want to put money into the piece.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377557 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:41 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Ryan Underthun Online   content
Moderator

Registered: Thu Nov 07 2002
Loc: Duluth, MN U.S.A
So... why would you put a can on a sign that did not have one? Why not keep it "Original"?
_________________________
FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com

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#377558 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:41 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Ryan Underthun]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Use Beer to wash the Valium down, it'll double the effects.

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#377559 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:48 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
LOL, the Valium isn't working on some of these guys, they better drink more than a few beers.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377560 - Fri Dec 14 2012 11:55 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Has this seller done something criminal...no. Has he done something wrong....yes. But, it depends on which side of the fence you are on. Ownership has it's privileges...the choices afforded by ownership should be made in a balanced and a responsible manner.

Paul, we always tend to be on the other side of the fence from each other. We see things differently when it comes to collecting and selling. That is a good thing, because most times your posts and differing opinions make me see things from a different perspective.

I'm with Jarvis and Cold pizza, that this is more then likely the same sign. Ray sold his to a guy in Massachusetts with phone number 978-407-6718. Guess what Paul same location and phone number for the e-Bay listing. Maybe it's you that needs to quit taking the Valium and let your testosterone levels rise. And get angry at this sorta of butchering of signs.

This kinda *****, should make everyone stop and think (including you Paul).

Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you can do whatever you like with it. Because you own your car does it give you the right to drive or equip it like you want? Ownership isn't and can't be your ticket to be greedy and destructive in the pursuit of profit. A conscience is a good thing. Ownership comes with a certain amount of responsibility.

I think it's time that we kept track of people that destroy items and refuse to sell them items.

Rather then bicker between ourselves we need to take a united approach to these greedy people. I'm a collector and not driven by profit...I have refused to sell items to people in the past because I didn't feel they would be appropriate custodians of these items for future generations to enjoy.

Paul, even you must feel some level of disgust when you look at that neoned Red Indian sign. It's a crime in the collector world that I'm a card carrying member of.



Edited by Dave's Garage (Fri Dec 14 2012 11:58 AM)
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#377564 - Fri Dec 14 2012 12:02 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dave's Garage]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
I have to go do some work now and won't be able to participate in this discussion till later. Darn it, I'm going to be thinking of this thread. Wish, I could sit here all day and be a part of it.

This is an interesting topic hopefully guys won't get too worked up and get it locked.
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#377565 - Fri Dec 14 2012 12:07 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
57tbirdkid Offline
TBA Feature Host

Registered: Tue May 04 2010
Loc: NY
Haha that's funny.... Seems like for a picker you must know it all esp on pricing and authenticity where you are most vocal... Do you even care about the historical significance or are YOU just in it for the money?
_________________________
The most valuable commodity I know of is information-Wall Street

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#377573 - Fri Dec 14 2012 12:53 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 57tbirdkid]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
LOL, have to laugh, none of the decrying people have proven anything other than the number on eBay matches a number from a post on Oldgas. The sign got sold to someone, the original thread has nothing to indicate who bought it!

Having seen,bought,sold many many signs, I have no issue with restorations on signs when it is identified up front by the seller.

Besides signs I deal in vintage toys and I sell to people who want mint orignal, original played with, and even restored and custom toys. These buyers look past modifications to personal preference. The same holds true for pretty much any collected item. It's BUYERS preference.

10 years, 20 years, 40 years down the road the same is going to be true. In any market Buyers drive what prices are paid. If no one buys a modified sign for $25K the price will come down, if someone want's to pay $40K for the sign in 10 years then today's buyer makes money. If they want to pay $5k then today's buyer overpaid.

Guys with deep pockets will spend money where they want, regardless of what you as a collector think is right, reasonable, or responsible. If you are a buyer collector only and not a seller then you can buy what you want for as much as you are willing to pay. For those who are simply pickers, we buy then sell for a living. We hope to make as much as we can, most more honestly than a few who don't care about anything but the money.

For me, I'd rather see a sign being hung than be scrapped out for a couple of bucks. I handle plenty of barn hangers, and if the buyer wants to restore it, it's his money spent not mine. I'm sure the guy who buys a sign and puts neon on it is hoping he'll find a buyer who will return his expenses plus profit. If it happens to be 5x what he's got invested I have no problem with it.

When a mint common sign is modified to a neon I have no issue with that. When a much less than mint sign is modified to a neon I still have no issue with that. Someone who buys it is going to enjoy it, people will see it and enjoy it, and sometime down the line it will be back on the market for someone else to enjoy. It won't get scrapped for pennies. So really I have no issue. We aren't talking the Mona Lisa, a Picasso, a Monet, a marble statue, all one of a kind pieces.

You want to preserve the history of Petrol, the best way to do it is to expose more people to it. Some will become collectors, some will simply enjoy the signs. Museums have been built to display the past history of man to the public. Old advertising signs are bought by Restaurants and other stores for display, for atmosphere. Many more people get to see those signs than the thousands of signs held in private collections which may only be seen by a handful of people.

There are always going to be the Jack Sims, Dick Bennetts and others who are the caretakers of the history of petrol advertising.

I know plenty of collectors who know far less about their own signs than I do. And when someone asks me about signs or toys I have for sale, I do my best to educate them not simply on value but history. I do this every week talking with common people not collectors, do you?
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

Top
#377576 - Fri Dec 14 2012 01:21 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dave's Garage]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Dave's Garage
Has this seller done something criminal...no. Has he done something wrong....yes. But, it depends on which side of the fence you are on. Ownership has it's privileges...the choices afforded by ownership should be made in a balanced and a responsible manner.

Paul, we always tend to be on the other side of the fence from each other. We see things differently when it comes to collecting and selling. That is a good thing, because most times your posts and differing opinions make me see things from a different perspective.

I'm with Jarvis and Cold pizza, that this is more then likely the same sign. Ray sold his to a guy in Massachusetts with phone number 978-407-6718. Guess what Paul same location and phone number for the e-Bay listing. Maybe it's you that needs to quit taking the Valium and let your testosterone levels rise. And get angry at this sorta of butchering of signs.

This kinda *****, should make everyone stop and think (including you Paul).

Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you can do whatever you like with it. Because you own your car does it give you the right to drive or equip it like you want? Ownership isn't and can't be your ticket to be greedy and destructive in the pursuit of profit. A conscience is a good thing. Ownership comes with a certain amount of responsibility.

I think it's time that we kept track of people that destroy items and refuse to sell them items.

Rather then bicker between ourselves we need to take a united approach to these greedy people. I'm a collector and not driven by profit...I have refused to sell items to people in the past because I didn't feel they would be appropriate custodians of these items for future generations to enjoy.

Paul, even you must feel some level of disgust when you look at that neoned Red Indian sign. It's a crime in the collector world that I'm a card carrying member of.



x2...
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

Top
#377582 - Fri Dec 14 2012 02:11 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: gulfiend!]
TJammer Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Dec 05 2012
Loc: North Bay Ontario
I dont know if its the same sign or not...But if that was my sign that I sold him...I'd be a little upset to see what was done to it..

Probably sooo.. upset I'd want to call the Cops..!!..and have him charged with "Mental Abuse"..

I wonder.??..would there actually be anybody out there, that would do that to a Beautiful sign like that..Somebody that is that Money Driven, that they don't give 2 hoots about preservation......
_________________________
Imperial Oil collector..

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#377589 - Fri Dec 14 2012 02:47 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Carolinaskies, Someone told me the signs are the same. Guy selling doesn't even know it's a 5' sign to begin with. He was in the shop where the neon was put on and knows where the sign come from and who it went to.
Trust me... the guy telling me knows his stuff, it's the same sign!

I am not here to point fingers... it's the principle of taking a nice original sign and destroying it for money!


Originally Posted By: carolinaskies
LOL, have to laugh, none of the decrying people have proven anything other than the number on eBay matches a number from a post on Oldgas. The sign got sold to someone, the original thread has nothing to indicate who bought it!

Having seen,bought,sold many many signs, I have no issue with restorations on signs when it is identified up front by the seller.

Besides signs I deal in vintage toys and I sell to people who want mint orignal, original played with, and even restored and custom toys. These buyers look past modifications to personal preference. The same holds true for pretty much any collected item. It's BUYERS preference.

10 years, 20 years, 40 years down the road the same is going to be true. In any market Buyers drive what prices are paid. If no one buys a modified sign for $25K the price will come down, if someone want's to pay $40K for the sign in 10 years then today's buyer makes money. If they want to pay $5k then today's buyer overpaid.

Guys with deep pockets will spend money where they want, regardless of what you as a collector think is right, reasonable, or responsible. If you are a buyer collector only and not a seller then you can buy what you want for as much as you are willing to pay. For those who are simply pickers, we buy then sell for a living. We hope to make as much as we can, most more honestly than a few who don't care about anything but the money.

For me, I'd rather see a sign being hung than be scrapped out for a couple of bucks. I handle plenty of barn hangers, and if the buyer wants to restore it, it's his money spent not mine. I'm sure the guy who buys a sign and puts neon on it is hoping he'll find a buyer who will return his expenses plus profit. If it happens to be 5x what he's got invested I have no problem with it.

When a mint common sign is modified to a neon I have no issue with that. When a much less than mint sign is modified to a neon I still have no issue with that. Someone who buys it is going to enjoy it, people will see it and enjoy it, and sometime down the line it will be back on the market for someone else to enjoy. It won't get scrapped for pennies. So really I have no issue. We aren't talking the Mona Lisa, a Picasso, a Monet, a marble statue, all one of a kind pieces.

You want to preserve the history of Petrol, the best way to do it is to expose more people to it. Some will become collectors, some will simply enjoy the signs. Museums have been built to display the past history of man to the public. Old advertising signs are bought by Restaurants and other stores for display, for atmosphere. Many more people get to see those signs than the thousands of signs held in private collections which may only be seen by a handful of people.

There are always going to be the Jack Sims, Dick Bennetts and others who are the caretakers of the history of petrol advertising.

I know plenty of collectors who know far less about their own signs than I do. And when someone asks me about signs or toys I have for sale, I do my best to educate them not simply on value but history. I do this every week talking with common people not collectors, do you?

_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377596 - Fri Dec 14 2012 03:27 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Woodys Rod Shop Offline
Active Member

Registered: Thu Oct 28 2010
Loc: Utah, Salt Lake County [Murray...
In the time that this thread has gone on, Many signs, pumps, houses,cars,human bodies ect. have been altered. Some people like, some don't like modifications. Don't like don't look. Don't like don't buy. Just My cent and a half.
TONY
_________________________
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin

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#377598 - Fri Dec 14 2012 03:45 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Woodys Rod Shop]
Ryan Underthun Online   content
Moderator

Registered: Thu Nov 07 2002
Loc: Duluth, MN U.S.A
Originally Posted By: Woodys Rod Shop
In the time that this thread has gone on, Many signs, pumps, houses,cars,human bodies ect. have been altered. Some people like, some don't like modifications. Don't like don't look. Don't like don't buy. Just My cent and a half.
TONY


That is not a bad way of looking at it!
_________________________
FREEDOM oil items wanted.


visit my website for original gas pumps and parts

www.thepumpdump.com

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#377599 - Fri Dec 14 2012 03:47 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Woodys Rod Shop]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
The only thing i like that is fake or repop and that is breast implants. LOL I know some guys don't... but as SI from Duck Dynasty would say "hey... i like them and that's a fact Jack"
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377608 - Fri Dec 14 2012 04:08 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Cold Pizza Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois
Just got confirmation it's the exact same sign Ray sold to him 3 mos. ago.
And agree,the real principal here isn't what he's asking for it,but what he did to it.
10 years from now,new comers to this hobby are going to think every porcelain sign originally came w/neon and the ones without it are knockoffs..

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#377609 - Fri Dec 14 2012 04:16 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Cold Pizza]
Loyd Pierce Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jan 13 2011
Loc: Mt. Juliet, Tenn.
Well that really is to bad! It was a rare sign in great shape. In my world its worth half of what Ray sold it for. Now if its worth the asking price then maybe I'm in the wrong hobbie.
_________________________
*Wanted Pierce Pennant Petroleum*

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#377613 - Fri Dec 14 2012 04:30 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Chevrolet SS Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Apr 03 2011
Loc: DeKalb, IL
I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion so here is mine. I have to admit that I 100% agree with the people who implied that a great sign has been destroyed. The sign is not original anymore. What we have now is a "fantasy" Red Indian neon sign on eBay with a $25,000 Buy It Now. ROTFLMAO

The buyer/seller is Steve Gutmans from Massachusetts and oldsignsnstuff is his eBay user ID. I have been contacted by him in the past regarding a couple of signs (thank God that sale didn't happen) so I know what I'm talking about. From what I have heard he knows the deep pocket players and is looking to cash in.

He was Last Online: Thu Dec 13 2012 03:28 AM. Therefore I suspect it will only be a matter of time before the opportunity presents itself to be read.

This is one makeover that has failed... plain & simple !!

JARVIS... the "Subject" title is spot on. Kudos to you smile


Edited by Chevrolet SS (Fri Dec 14 2012 04:40 PM)
_________________________
Ron Gordon
Cell: 815.762.2616
Email: flash03@comcast.net

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#377621 - Fri Dec 14 2012 05:50 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Chevrolet SS]
Man-Cave-Shoppe Dave Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Nov 01 2012
Loc: www.mancaveshoppe.com email:bi...
Not something that I would ever consider doing to any sign unless it was originally a neon sign! It really makes me wince because I dig these signs and appreciate them in any ORIGINAL condition.
I did not want to do the repair work that I did to the US Royal sign that I have but I did because what I did took away a lot of the damage that someone had done to it by using it as a backdrop for painting projects for ?something?
I did it to repair and preserve it, not for profit.
I did not alter the wording or cut holes or patch up or paint that sign at all except to coat it with a heavy clear coat after trying to take as much of the damage off as possible without further damaging it. I think what I did brought back out some of the wording and sealed it so that it would be preserved for awhile to come and now anyone who drives by on hwy 904 can see it and anyone that walks up the path to the shoppe can see it well compared to it bieng shoved away in some stack of signs in a garage.
I have not done that to any of the other signs that I have and would never even consider it unless it was in similar shape as this one when I got it but I did do similar things to the hanger that sign is hanging on now and that was probably a mistake on my part because I should've just coated it to preserve the patina where it was instead of painting it and then sealing it.

I have that Wayne 70 that is a original Flying A Pump and I still have 2 sides of the original ad glass but no original Flying A pump signs, so what I'm gonna do is try to find a original pump door sign and then buy reproduction Flying A ad glasses for the missing ones and a reproduction door sign and do half the pump in original and half in reproduction. If I can find the stuff. ,,,but the other side of that is that I am going to be doing many unoriginal things to that pump but in original Flying A colors and so forth along the whole FLYING A ASSOCIATED theme.
I am one of those types that likes to see pumps put back to their original company if someone is going to take the time to restore one, but I understand when others take them to what they like because it's all about what spins their windmill, that just dosen't spin mine for pumps, signs or any of these original pieces of Americana.
Once it is out of my hands tho I would not and could not say a thing to them for what they do to it, but I would never sell another thing to them again because that is the only thing that I would have control over while that piece is with me.

It kinda stings to know that the Rainbow pump that I had is bieng turned into something else but a Wayne 100B is a lot more common than this sign was.
UGH
_________________________
Dave(509)847-5893 LOOKING-4:WELDING SIGNS,Charter/Finance/PulOil/Trulite/TruTest-Oil,FREEDOM cans,True's gas CORALINE/RAINBOW,FLYING A,Wa/Or/Id Chief!

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#377622 - Fri Dec 14 2012 05:52 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Chevrolet SS]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Well he apparently found a buyer and has sold the sign off eBay.

I wrote him for more pictures and this was his response..

"Hi, It is a single-sided with a full-size can on the back for the transformers & wiring. Unfortunately, it was just sold. Please contact me if you are looking for these types of signs. We specialize in large porcelain & neons. Thank-you for the interest. - Steve"

I'm not particularly concerned about it being restored. And I hope he got his $25K. I'm tired of whiners. If you've got deep pockets just buy all these signs and put them in a museum for people to see rather than sitting in your private collection/hoard.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377625 - Fri Dec 14 2012 06:08 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Paul you .... ... ... .... LOL


Edited by blacktee (Fri Dec 14 2012 06:13 PM)

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#377626 - Fri Dec 14 2012 06:18 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Originally Posted By: Jarvis
The only thing i like that is fake or repop and that is breast implants. LOL I know some guys don't... but as SI from Duck Dynasty would say "hey... i like them and that's a fact Jack"


SELF FASCINATION, John? Double HH?
You'd be a Pin Head AFTERWARDS! smile


Edited by Dick Bennett (Fri Dec 14 2012 06:45 PM)

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#377636 - Fri Dec 14 2012 07:35 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett]
Nicole Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Dec 09 2010
Loc: Maryland
Isn't this a discussion OLDGAS just had a week or two ago. Exact same subject???

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#377643 - Fri Dec 14 2012 07:53 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Nicole]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
LOL, the same discussions get rehashed at least a couple times a month.

The whiners whine about the sad state of affairs, about eBay driving prices up, about pieces being changed, about giving out valuations, about pictures not being included with posts, and in general the increased cost of their hobby and anything else they just are totally dissatisfied with related to the hobby.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377644 - Fri Dec 14 2012 07:55 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Nicole]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
YEP;
http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=373507&page=1
BUT it's Winter, too Cold [MOST Places] to Play in Garage or outside! & on TV w/ recent Tragedy, each reporter telling the same story, stuffing cameras in the face of Victims.

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#377646 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:06 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett]
Cold Pizza Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois

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#377654 - Fri Dec 14 2012 08:30 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Yep... everyone complains but i see from the replies most everyone agrees with most of the "whiners". Always just a few that thinks people are complaining.

This was a legitimate post... title said all for greed and it was showing how someone ruined a good original sign. Call it whining all you want. Just pointing out what our hobby has come to.
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377671 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:20 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
junknjohn Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 31 2005
Loc: Cedar Lake IN. USA
Just because you paid for something doesn't mean you can do whatever you like with it. Because you own your car does it give you the right to drive or equip it like you want? Ownership isn't and can't be your ticket to be greedy and destructive in the pursuit of profit. A conscience is a good thing. Ownership comes with a certain amount of responsibility.(originally posted by Daves Garage)

Though I dont't agree with what was done to the sign, I don't agree with the above comment. Fortunately we live in a country where we can do whatever we like with our possessions as long as we follow the letter of the law. Chopping a top on a hot rod, to taking a sign and making a new set of floorboards for your car, to yes adding neon to a sign. It is a free country and we dont have to like what others do but we have to appreciate the fact that if it is ours we can do as we like with it.

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#377677 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:34 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
1937 GMC Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Apr 22 2011
Loc: DFW Texas
After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. JM2C smirk
_________________________
Buying: Polarine / Red Crown Gasoline Globes and Signs, Early Chevrolet & United Motors Signs, and 1910's through 1940's Gas & Oil Signs.

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#377682 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:38 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: junknjohn]
Garry Krangnes Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Tue Nov 23 2004
Loc: Temecula Ca
junkinjohn you are right, for now. The way we are losing our freedoms, that may change. Right now, it's yours, you paid for it, do what you want. Others may not like it, but that's life.

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#377684 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:45 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Garry Krangnes]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Made from 2 INCOMPLETE pumps. When I'm Gone OR I sell it, next owner can do as they like w/ it.

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#377686 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:48 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: junknjohn]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Junknjohn, you need to read the first paragraph of my post. I covered what you state.

As I stated earlier, ownership comes with certain responsibilities. One person may buy a reproduction sign. It is now their possession and they can sell it as a real sign (haven't broken any law). It's okay for them to do it because it's their possession. Morally, ethically and as a compassionate individual I could never do that. Others, can convince themselves it's okay to do because they live in a free country.

According to you; "Fortunately we live in a country where we can do whatever we like with our possessions as long as we follow the letter of the law.".

I also live in a free country where the current economic climate hasn't made people do some of the very things we speak of (sell fake signs as originals or add neon to original signs) on a regular basis.

Freedom comes at a great cost and it should be exercised with great care and respect. Ownership is one of those freedoms that should be respected.


Edited by Dave's Garage (Fri Dec 14 2012 09:50 PM)
_________________________
Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#377687 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:48 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 1937 GMC]
Mr.Wadhams Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 08 2001
Loc: Wisconsin
(Quote: 1937 GMC) After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. (/Quote)


1937 GMC...you hit the nail on the head. Most of these type that come on here and try to jam their unwanted and out of place money driven agenda down our throats get the idea they are not wanted or appreciated and soon move on....some it takes longer than others I guess.

Jim


Edited by Mr.Wadhams (Fri Dec 14 2012 10:16 PM)
_________________________
Wanted: Wadhams - Bartles - O'neils - Items

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#377688 - Fri Dec 14 2012 09:49 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett]
Gas globe guy Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Mar 24 2012
Loc: MI
That is a sweat pump DB!! I like it!
_________________________
Looking for any cans! PM me what ya got!

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#377694 - Fri Dec 14 2012 10:22 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Gas globe guy]
junknjohn Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 31 2005
Loc: Cedar Lake IN. USA
Dave I did read your entire post before commenting. I think it would be considered fraud to buy a reproduction sign and sell it as original and that is illeagel. Yes ownership is one of those freedoms that should be respected,and again I will say that I would never deface the sign as he did.However he did buy the sign and follow through with the transaction(we all had the chance to purchase the sign) And as his sign I respect his right to do with it as he wishs. I realize that I probably see this in a different light than others,as a real estate investor I deal with properties in "historic districts" where there laws regulating what I can do with a building I "own" down to getting approval on paint colors or altering the facade or what building materials I may use, I don't think anyone wants the hobby to come to this myself included.

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#377713 - Sat Dec 15 2012 01:35 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: junknjohn]
bppierce Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Aug 19 2007
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Quote:
This has to be the only hobby where you can take a antique collectible and destroy it and sell it for more money

Mecum auction, last weekend in KC:
Resto-mod sold for $125,000
Complete "back to factory" rotisserie restoration sold for $40,000
I feel the same way about this, but it is what it is and as long as there's buyers, there's going to be sellers.


Attachments
cam-1.jpg

cam-2.jpg



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#377715 - Sat Dec 15 2012 03:33 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Mr.Wadhams]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Originally Posted By: Mr.Wadhams
(Quote: 1937 GMC) After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. (/Quote)


1937 GMC...you hit the nail on the head. Most of these type that come on here and try to jam their unwanted and out of place money driven agenda down our throats get the idea they are not wanted or appreciated and soon move on....some it takes longer than others I guess.

Jim


RIGHT ON YOU GUYS !!!

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#377716 - Sat Dec 15 2012 03:45 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
What Jarvis fails to understand is that whether he likes it or not people have to make money and people are making a living out of selling old signs. That "rare" sign was sold for around $4K, and despite Jarvis' claims wasn't obviously the one seen on eBay (which was single sided original Neon and 1ft taller as indicated by the seller not some third party.) But lets say it was, the guy probably put another $2K investment in the sign and asked $25K for it. Someone with deeper pockets than Jarvis will display that sign, most probably with a large collection of cars and other signs and will probably get seen by more people than Jarvis' collection of Salt & Peppers.

The point was stated that "greed" was bad for this hobby. However, a hobby is only as feasible as long as somebody is aware of it and willing to participate at some level, whether beginner, amateur, expert, professional. The guy who pays $25K for a neon sign most likely isn't going to hang it willy nilly, is going to have the money to maintain it, display it, etc. The guy who used the same sign perhaps as a cesspool cover didn't care about it, maybe put some chips in it, etc. So tell me, who's the better caretaker? The one who ensures the sign a new life or the one who keeps damaging it?

If it weren't for increasing values on signs, the hoards of them would have been disposed of as scrap, so my friends, "greed" in this sense is good. I suggest you examine how you are perpetuating the hobby to increase the participation in it, keeping the interest up, ensuring that history is not lost. Are you writing down and documenting the details of each sign, pump, can you own and regularly inviting people to come see them? Or are you putting them in a shed where less than 100 people see them in a year and they just gather dust and corrode away with their history forgotten? Whose greed is worse? The one who gives a new life to a sign or the one who lets that sign continue to degrade from good to average to fair to junk.
_________________________
Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!

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#377717 - Sat Dec 15 2012 05:39 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jarvis]
56chiefstar Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jun 25 2006
Loc: Adelanto Ca USA
The listing says the item is no longer for sale and it doesn't show a bid so he took some offer, who knows how much lower. I sold a sign once and the guy later showed how he drilled holes into it and made a neon, he was proud but I didn't like him doing it but didn't say anything since it was his sign, I never would have done it.

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#377725 - Sat Dec 15 2012 06:34 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 1937 GMC]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
Originally Posted By: 1937 GMC
After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. JM2C smirk


The best post yet, To bad someone just doesn't get it.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#377744 - Sat Dec 15 2012 08:31 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: KZ1000]
Jay Leeper Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Fri Nov 17 2000
Loc: Alva, Ok.
Originally Posted By: KZ1000
Originally Posted By: 1937 GMC
After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. JM2C smirk


The best post yet, To bad someone just doesn't get it.


X2!! His sign, his right to do with it as he wants. With that being said I also think the guy should have his testicular development decreased for destroying a rare sign. its not like the car example which can always be reversed, there is no way to put this sign back to original condition.
It's not like DB's work, he didn't destroy two original pumps he used parts.
_________________________
Wanted ! Cans from smaller Oklahoma oil companies.

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#377760 - Sat Dec 15 2012 09:21 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Jay Leeper]
Jarvis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Nov 01 2000
Loc: Evansville, In
Carolinaskies, I am telling you they are the same sign! The guy telling me knows the sign.

The stock camaro in mecum is an example of a restored pump to factory and then the restomod is something like dick built. Cool and many guys like it including myself. LOL
Better example of the camaro would be comparing a real yenko to a regular 6 cyl yenko clone.

This thread is about taking a nice original sign and turning it into junk. Everyone knows... "It's there signs and they can do what they want" and true and if they want to put them in the scrap yard that is fine also. LOL


This thread is like beating a dead horse. First of jan someone else can start a post of some junk some greedy person has turn original stuff into junk.
_________________________
Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.

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#377785 - Sat Dec 15 2012 10:28 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Cold Pizza Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue May 17 2005
Loc: Illinois
carolinaskies
You're actually going to quote the greedy fictional character Gordon Gekko in all this?..look where that got him.
Your one constant argument in all this seems to be it's not the same sign Ray sold him,when it actually is.

Also:
*Rays sign was single sided,not double,don't understand where your getting that from.
*The seller,SteveG,inadvertently listed Rays 5' sign as a 6' sign on eBay,when it isn't.
*You stated the red/black background colors are different,when they actually are the same.

I know someone close to the neoning of this sign,and he says it is indeed Rays initial sign.He's hoping the seller will step up and reply on here.
I find it interesting that SteveG has been logging on here nightly & has yet to respond.

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#377794 - Sat Dec 15 2012 10:59 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Cold Pizza]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Before some Reply here they should go outside & Lick a Steel Post!
It's a NO WIN for either side.

HELL, You guys can't even agree on Football, Baseball or the WIFE/GF SOME of THE TIME!

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#377809 - Sat Dec 15 2012 11:35 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett]
bppierce Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Aug 19 2007
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Boring world if everybody agreed on everything. If you don't like a thread, don't post on it.

Personally I love topics and threads like this. Passionate and educating thoughts that may or may not open my eyes, but certainly show me different perspectives.

Maybe I'm a beginner that loves neon signs and have a perfect spot for one of my originals after I fabricate neon to it. After reading this post, I might search out an original neon or fabricate one so no original is damaged, thus preserving history. Maybe not.

Don't always try to squash disagreements, there's always something to be learned if you're open. The name calling and personal insults are what should be squashed.

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#377818 - Sat Dec 15 2012 12:11 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce]
Craig Osbeck Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 06 2009
Loc: Portland Oregon
Not many here say that you can not do what you want. I believe it is the conversation that a good sign should not be altered. Weather you want to change YOUR sign to something that pleases YOU more is not the question I believe, it is the thought that someone is changing something strickly for financial benefit that is a good piece of history already.
It is the next buyer or buyer after that that may or may not know, and yes it is up to them to do their homework.
_________________________
Craig

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#377825 - Sat Dec 15 2012 12:36 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Craig Osbeck]
hotcidr Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 27 2001
Loc: Carpinteria, Ca. USA
It's great to sit back and know that I sold this 5' FOOT, NOT 6" sign. Yes, I miss it and hate that it's been butchered but I now have two fabulous large signs hanging with the money I got for that sign.
If any of you look on ebay under NEON sign for sale you will see that a large majority are original signs that have had neon added. There is one particular seller, someone I consider a good friend, that has many many original signs turned to neon and does a great job of selling the.
Let me ask one question: is it really our job to condem someone who buys a sign that has had neon added, I say no. If they enjoy it then that's the point. I bought a great Chevy Super Service, original neon sign, at Iowa this past summer. I brought it home and added some additional neon to it, am I going to now be damned for doing that....I sure hope not. I bought a great Chevy clock at Iowa from a good friend but it had been painted the wrong color by someone who wanted another color. Let's move away from this subjec. Everyone has an opinion, right or wrong, it's THEIR opinion.

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#377848 - Sat Dec 15 2012 01:34 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: hotcidr]
Craig Osbeck Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 06 2009
Loc: Portland Oregon
You are right Ray and no one is questioning you or should. My concern is the next buyer or the one after who may or may not know long after you and I are gone.
_________________________
Craig

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#377878 - Sat Dec 15 2012 03:24 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Craig Osbeck]
bppierce Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Aug 19 2007
Loc: Round Rock, Texas
Two different subjects:

1) Is the owner of a sign responsible or obligated for keeping it's historic authenticity?

2) People being defrauded by a non-original neon sign turned into a neon and sold as originally neon.

These two subjects will of course cross paths, but people ARE questioning whether Ray committed a
faux pas (was gonna say sin) by altering his Chevy sign. I don't think so, but that's me.

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#377903 - Sat Dec 15 2012 04:20 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce]
Craig Osbeck Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 06 2009
Loc: Portland Oregon
I agree with you there was no problem with Ray's deal, a lot of us just worry about the next guy.
_________________________
Craig

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#377904 - Sat Dec 15 2012 04:20 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce]
Wes Maxwell Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Oct 15 2004
Loc: Central Ohio
I for one would not promote drilling a nice rare sign to add neon. If it was a common sign in barn hanger condition I see no problem with cleaning it up and putting neon on it. The original sign in this thread in my opinion is not ruined. The can, wires, transformer and neon could be removed. The then original sign would have a few more holes in it than before but it would still be a desirable sign. (depending on how it was "restored") Probably not worth as much as before being drilled of course but far from being ruined. The holes could be filled and smoothed over with bondo and repainted. It would then be a repaired original sign, just as trying to bring back a chopped/ lowered/ modified car could be brought back close to original. The guy probably had about $5K in the sign once he got the neon on it. Did it sell for $25K? I don't know but if it did he made 5X his investment. I dont consider it greed to buy a can for $2 and sell it for $10. Or lucking into a deal and getting a sign for $200 and selling it for $1000. I heard a lot of stories about people getting great items for minimal $$ and selling them for a lot more than 5X their investment. Is that greed or being an informed collector/ dealer? I for one wouldnt want to drill a nice sign for neon as I consider myself a collector but as a dealer, I could see how someone would follow the money. I would say that everyone that sets up at the shows is trying to make a profit on their items. This is still the USA and people have a right to use their property as they wish within the legal guidelines. Plus, collectibles get damaged or destroyed every day. Old cars get wrecked, globes get dropped, signs get buggered up by the dozer or back hoe. People say to keep it original but pumps get gutted all the time. I only have a couple pumps in my collection, the rest are restored pump shells....
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#377928 - Sat Dec 15 2012 05:27 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Wes Maxwell]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Jarvis, are you willing to step up to the plate and buy every sign before it gets turned into neon? I seriously doubt it.

As I stated in my early morning post, that sign's going to have a far better life than the average sign gets. People who aren't sign snobs are going to see it, enjoy it, and appreciate it.

For me, that's enough.
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#377933 - Sat Dec 15 2012 05:39 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Wes Maxwell]
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 10 2009
Loc: New Mexico
Interesting perspective there Wes because,IMO,it begs the question of when a pursuit of profit becomes an act of simple greed.I agree that when one finds something at a fraction of it's value,or even better had it given to them,and then sells it at market value that is not an act motivated by greed;it is either pure luck or,as you noted,the action of an informed collector.

With that said,I do think the sign under question was prepared for sale by modifying to something it never was for only one purpose;to increase it's sales value by several multiples.I do think this was an act motivated by greed.Do I think it is wrong to try to maximize one's profit?No I do not.Do I think it is bad for the hobby of collecting gas&oil stuff?Yes,I most certainly do because it lessens the importance of collecting and preserving history.But then,I'm fully aware that there are other motivation in this hobby.AS we say,to each his own.

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#377940 - Sat Dec 15 2012 06:32 PM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 1937 GMC]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: 1937 GMC
After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. JM2C smirk


...exactly...
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Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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#378065 - Sun Dec 16 2012 07:16 AM Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies]
Oldgas Offline
Moderator

Registered: Tue Jul 25 2000
Loc: South of St. Louis, MO USA
Lets just agree to disagree. Pickers think one way and collectors think another about topics like this. Not going to change.
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