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Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies] #377785
Sat Dec 15 2012 09:28 AM
Sat Dec 15 2012 09:28 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,183
Illinois
Cold Pizza Online content
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Cold Pizza  Online Content
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Posts: 4,183
Illinois
carolinaskies
You're actually going to quote the greedy fictional character Gordon Gekko in all this?..look where that got him.
Your one constant argument in all this seems to be it's not the same sign Ray sold him,when it actually is.

Also:
*Rays sign was single sided,not double,don't understand where your getting that from.
*The seller,SteveG,inadvertently listed Rays 5' sign as a 6' sign on eBay,when it isn't.
*You stated the red/black background colors are different,when they actually are the same.

I know someone close to the neoning of this sign,and he says it is indeed Rays initial sign.He's hoping the seller will step up and reply on here.
I find it interesting that SteveG has been logging on here nightly & has yet to respond.

Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Cold Pizza] #377794
Sat Dec 15 2012 09:59 AM
Sat Dec 15 2012 09:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Dick Bennett  Offline
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Posts: 22,780
Santa Paula, Calif
Before some Reply here they should go outside & Lick a Steel Post!
It's a NO WIN for either side.

HELL, You guys can't even agree on Football, Baseball or the WIFE/GF SOME of THE TIME!

Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Dick Bennett] #377809
Sat Dec 15 2012 10:35 AM
Sat Dec 15 2012 10:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 458
Round Rock, Texas
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bppierce Offline
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bppierce  Offline
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Posts: 458
Round Rock, Texas
Boring world if everybody agreed on everything. If you don't like a thread, don't post on it.

Personally I love topics and threads like this. Passionate and educating thoughts that may or may not open my eyes, but certainly show me different perspectives.

Maybe I'm a beginner that loves neon signs and have a perfect spot for one of my originals after I fabricate neon to it. After reading this post, I might search out an original neon or fabricate one so no original is damaged, thus preserving history. Maybe not.

Don't always try to squash disagreements, there's always something to be learned if you're open. The name calling and personal insults are what should be squashed.

Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce] #377818
Sat Dec 15 2012 11:11 AM
Sat Dec 15 2012 11:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,153
Portland Oregon
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Craig Osbeck Online content
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Craig Osbeck  Online Content
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Portland Oregon
Not many here say that you can not do what you want. I believe it is the conversation that a good sign should not be altered. Weather you want to change YOUR sign to something that pleases YOU more is not the question I believe, it is the thought that someone is changing something strickly for financial benefit that is a good piece of history already.
It is the next buyer or buyer after that that may or may not know, and yes it is up to them to do their homework.


Craig
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Craig Osbeck] #377825
Sat Dec 15 2012 11:36 AM
Sat Dec 15 2012 11:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,679
Carpinteria, Ca. USA
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hotcidr Offline
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Carpinteria, Ca. USA
It's great to sit back and know that I sold this 5' FOOT, NOT 6" sign. Yes, I miss it and hate that it's been butchered but I now have two fabulous large signs hanging with the money I got for that sign.
If any of you look on ebay under NEON sign for sale you will see that a large majority are original signs that have had neon added. There is one particular seller, someone I consider a good friend, that has many many original signs turned to neon and does a great job of selling the.
Let me ask one question: is it really our job to condem someone who buys a sign that has had neon added, I say no. If they enjoy it then that's the point. I bought a great Chevy Super Service, original neon sign, at Iowa this past summer. I brought it home and added some additional neon to it, am I going to now be damned for doing that....I sure hope not. I bought a great Chevy clock at Iowa from a good friend but it had been painted the wrong color by someone who wanted another color. Let's move away from this subjec. Everyone has an opinion, right or wrong, it's THEIR opinion.

Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: hotcidr] #377848
Sat Dec 15 2012 12:34 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,153
Portland Oregon
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Craig Osbeck Online content
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Craig Osbeck  Online Content
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Portland Oregon
You are right Ray and no one is questioning you or should. My concern is the next buyer or the one after who may or may not know long after you and I are gone.


Craig
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Craig Osbeck] #377878
Sat Dec 15 2012 02:24 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 458
Round Rock, Texas
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bppierce Offline
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bppierce  Offline
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Round Rock, Texas
Two different subjects:

1) Is the owner of a sign responsible or obligated for keeping it's historic authenticity?

2) People being defrauded by a non-original neon sign turned into a neon and sold as originally neon.

These two subjects will of course cross paths, but people ARE questioning whether Ray committed a
faux pas (was gonna say sin) by altering his Chevy sign. I don't think so, but that's me.

Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce] #377903
Sat Dec 15 2012 03:20 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 03:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,153
Portland Oregon
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Craig Osbeck Online content
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Craig Osbeck  Online Content
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I agree with you there was no problem with Ray's deal, a lot of us just worry about the next guy.


Craig
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: bppierce] #377904
Sat Dec 15 2012 03:20 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,977
Central Ohio
Wes Maxwell Offline
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Wes Maxwell  Offline
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Central Ohio
I for one would not promote drilling a nice rare sign to add neon. If it was a common sign in barn hanger condition I see no problem with cleaning it up and putting neon on it. The original sign in this thread in my opinion is not ruined. The can, wires, transformer and neon could be removed. The then original sign would have a few more holes in it than before but it would still be a desirable sign. (depending on how it was "restored") Probably not worth as much as before being drilled of course but far from being ruined. The holes could be filled and smoothed over with bondo and repainted. It would then be a repaired original sign, just as trying to bring back a chopped/ lowered/ modified car could be brought back close to original. The guy probably had about $5K in the sign once he got the neon on it. Did it sell for $25K? I don't know but if it did he made 5X his investment. I dont consider it greed to buy a can for $2 and sell it for $10. Or lucking into a deal and getting a sign for $200 and selling it for $1000. I heard a lot of stories about people getting great items for minimal $$ and selling them for a lot more than 5X their investment. Is that greed or being an informed collector/ dealer? I for one wouldnt want to drill a nice sign for neon as I consider myself a collector but as a dealer, I could see how someone would follow the money. I would say that everyone that sets up at the shows is trying to make a profit on their items. This is still the USA and people have a right to use their property as they wish within the legal guidelines. Plus, collectibles get damaged or destroyed every day. Old cars get wrecked, globes get dropped, signs get buggered up by the dozer or back hoe. People say to keep it original but pumps get gutted all the time. I only have a couple pumps in my collection, the rest are restored pump shells....


US Air Force Retired, 1981-2007
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Wes Maxwell] #377928
Sat Dec 15 2012 04:27 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 04:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,648
Upstate SC, USA
carolinaskies Offline
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carolinaskies  Offline
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Upstate SC, USA
Jarvis, are you willing to step up to the plate and buy every sign before it gets turned into neon? I seriously doubt it.

As I stated in my early morning post, that sign's going to have a far better life than the average sign gets. People who aren't sign snobs are going to see it, enjoy it, and appreciate it.

For me, that's enough.


Checkout my items for sale on Pauls Picks on Facebook.

Collecting anything keeps you young at heart!
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: Wes Maxwell] #377933
Sat Dec 15 2012 04:39 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 04:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 649
New Mexico
Old Iron Offline
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Old Iron  Offline
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Posts: 649
New Mexico
Interesting perspective there Wes because,IMO,it begs the question of when a pursuit of profit becomes an act of simple greed.I agree that when one finds something at a fraction of it's value,or even better had it given to them,and then sells it at market value that is not an act motivated by greed;it is either pure luck or,as you noted,the action of an informed collector.

With that said,I do think the sign under question was prepared for sale by modifying to something it never was for only one purpose;to increase it's sales value by several multiples.I do think this was an act motivated by greed.Do I think it is wrong to try to maximize one's profit?No I do not.Do I think it is bad for the hobby of collecting gas&oil stuff?Yes,I most certainly do because it lessens the importance of collecting and preserving history.But then,I'm fully aware that there are other motivation in this hobby.AS we say,to each his own.

Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: 1937 GMC] #377940
Sat Dec 15 2012 05:32 PM
Sat Dec 15 2012 05:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,053
Raleigh, North Carolina
gulfiend! Offline
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gulfiend!  Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: 1937 GMC
After reading the replies and seeing that the original intent of the post has been "skewed" through the eyes of Pickers that wear Rose Colored Glasses I am going to add my two cents. The POINT was that a rare sign has been destroyed for the sake of the almighty buck; not "can you believe that the guy bought that sign and now is trying to make a killing on it". Yes it's his sign and he can do what he wants with it; but the majority of the members (wait better clarify) “collectors” on this site think what happed is a travesty. The Nay Sayers on this post are in the extreme minority; if Collectors are having a conversation regarding such matters, Pickers should pass the post on by and spend their time looking for the next quick buck. JM2C smirk


...exactly...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
Re: greed is the only thing to describe this.... [Re: carolinaskies] #378065
Sun Dec 16 2012 06:16 AM
Sun Dec 16 2012 06:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,846
South of St. Louis, MO USA
Oldgas Offline
Moderator
Oldgas  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 7,846
South of St. Louis, MO USA
Lets just agree to disagree. Pickers think one way and collectors think another about topics like this. Not going to change.


Jim "Oldgas" Potts
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