Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Non-Petro Discussions Non-petro Discussion and Showcase Man Up in 2013

As I watch the direction this discussion is going,I'll make a couple of comments.

First,I think it's time to "cut a little slack" to newcomers around here.I say that because whether you like it or not many of them are the future of the hobby and others could be very valuable assets to the body of knowledge available to all members of OLDGAS.I've been told by a couple of them that they do not consider themselves beginners after they have been restoring cars for 20 years and decide to do a pump.They resent the un-necessary "put downs".Some other younger guys I got started refuse to post on here even though they are members.

Second,I agree with Terry on the delete button.I've watched it when the one who "threw the first stone"at someone and then gets the same back at them,the "return fire"is deleted while the carefully first stone is left.IMO,delete both,or leave both.

Just things to think about.

Wendell, I respect you and what you have said....

I personally have a problem with any concept that includes... that someone WHO HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OR EXPERIENCE in the HOBBY... Should somehow be treated the same as a Member WHO HAS MULTIPLE YEARS/DECADES IN THE HOBBY.... Multiple years/decades in a different Hobby... Does not impress me... A number of us can rightfully claim that distinction. Doesn't mean a damn thing where it comes to THIS HOBBY, IMO.....

Respect is earned.... It is not given! Just because one "SHOWED UP", doesn't ensure they won't be "called out" when they make ignorant or downright stupid comments.... This is not Grade School or Little League Baseball where everyone gets a "Trophy", now because they participated.....

Hell, Experienced Collectors are called out when they make a mistake (and rightly so, IMO)... When I make a mistake, I "call myself out".... How many times have we seen a New Member make a mistake and instead of saying.. "Hey I screwed up"... They instead start blaming anyone and everyone... but themselves for giving out the wrong information....

To the "New Members" on Oldgas:

We, the Membership, know when someone "has knowledge" (I wish I had more knowledge, in most aspects of the Hobby) or they are trying to BS their way along.... If you treat the Membership with respect... They will in turn treat you with respect....

It is that way in all facets of life, as I have experienced it... When I started a new job, I needed to prove that I had what it took.... When I joined the Military, I needed to prove myself... When I first started racing as a youngster, I needed to prove myself... When I went back to racing, I needed to prove that I wasn't a "place holder".... When I started my business I needed to prove to my Customers and to my Competitors that I could do "the Job"...

When I came to Oldgas I NEEDED to Prove that I had the knowledge, I claimed to have... Hopefully I have always answered the questions asked of me.... and have proven myself worthy of respect....

To disagree is human, and yes that's something that will never go away. DAHHHHH
Knock down drag out fights, who hasn't been in one??????? BFD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does that all of a sudden make you a big man, who can bad mouth other people for no reason????????? "I DON'T THINK SO"
Yes good point gasguy77, 99% of the time they will only say it behind a screen otherwise the person would shut their mouth for them.

What's the point to throw out unprovoked, snide, negative and rude comments about some ones post to sell an item, or to showcase it?
I agree with Old Iron your just running away any newcomers to the hobby.
Let's don’t forget the numbers of years you have been collecting has NOT given you seniority over anyone and it certainly does not make you a better person than anyone else.

See, we don't all have to have the same opinions...

The Model T forums are a perfect example of running off newcomers. Which is sad for the vendors, because the membership is doing little, if anything, to bring in new people. One thing about the Model T clubs, most of those guys are old, and they're not gonna be around much longer. Without passing the torch, the Model T clubs will soon be dead.

I've just deleted a bunch of stuff that I've typed in as a reply. This issue has been beaten to death, SO many times before...

I'm just gonna agree with Bob Richards "See, we don't all have to have the same opinions..."

I'll stop by every now & then. But I really dont see much more participation here from me.

Respect does have to be earned, BUT respect on here often gets too confused with knowledge and/or experienced. And no one should have the deck stacked against them to earn respect. It should be an even "starting field."

Too many tenured members have a lot of knowledge (or think they do) about the hobby, but they seem to think that gives them a right to do and/or say whatever they want.

Too many new members on here don't have enough knowledge (or even if they do) and they think someone should kiss their butt to keep them around just because they are new.

This is the type of behavior that has no place in any hobby, or amongst grown, civilized adults of any kind.

If we are face to face, you can educate me all you want, I'm a humble man. However, disrespect me and the response that you get will range from me walking away, to a slap in the mouth.

We are all grown adults, and don't need to talk to each other like children.

Also, the issue of Mods deleting stuff keeps getting brought up. Who cares about deleting stuff? Whats said is said. What needs to be focused on is consequence. It's the same people typically that run their mouths. Warn them. Suspend them. Suspend them again. Then either ban them, or disable their ability to post. This will make your job a lot easier because you don't have to delete 500 comments a day and we won't have to put up with the same squeaky wheels.

Just my 2 cents.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion, if yours varies that's par for the course.

I believe attitude has much to do with how some people treat others in discussions/responses and what they get in return.

Whether it's a newcomer or long-time member, everyone is due reasonable treatment and a minimum level of civility in any correspondence. If we disagree with someone's statement that doesn't mean we have to be disagreeable.

Respect BETWEEN individuals is a different matter. Arrogance runs in the veins of both the knowledgeable and illiterate when it comes to any subject. But again, if statements are kept civil, reproaches kept respectful in tone and manner, then everyone benefits.

If we disagree with someone, then it's better to post a civil response (whether publicly or in a private PM) with the differing opinion. There's no need to drag an issue through hot coals, berate someone who's incorrect, or get in a huff because a statement is challenged.

Why run off to the moderators to complain? Why not first approach the individual in civility and attempt a reasonable discussion. And even then if no reasonable resolution is found, I believe the moderators should attempt communication before taking punitive action. This gives all parties involved a chance for reasonable discourse and to find a solution which is fair and equitable.

I also believe that except for egregious violations, no action taken by the moderators to limit a member should be permanent. That is unfair and unjust.

Again, these are my opinions and your mileage may vary.

Paul T in SC

Paul, an excellent reply... IMO... (for whatever that means...LOL)

You bring up some good points.

As far as a moderator attempting communication before taking some kind of action is not realistic. I dont know about most of the moderators or their situations, but I can tell you for one, that I dont have the time to get involved with that. I have a job that takes alot of my time and simply cannot sit here and babysit 24/7.

If you talk bad on here and I see it, I am going to delete it. That is what Jim wants me to do, its nothing personal against anybody.



Second, no moderator can take action against another member (at least I cant). I believe the only person who can suspend or put a member on probation is Jim. Last I checked he runs the show.

Keep in mind, there is usually much more going on as to why somebody get suspended or banned than what the general members know about.

Ryan,

As for removal of certain posts which are inflammatory or otherwise against board rules of course I would expect a moderator to remove those as routine before contacting the member. However, I believe as a moderator it is part of ones duty to inform infringing individuals that their posts were removed for a reason such as infraction of board rules, etc.

I think some people believe everyone comes to the table knowing all the rules and guidelines, in's and outs, do's and dont's, but that isn't always the case. A friendly note to an offender often can go a long way to helping them become a more constructive member. Then, if they continue offending that is when further action may be necessary.

I know that in my own case it wasn't because I broke any board rules. It was the result of individuals not coming to me with any concerns, which if they were conscientious enough to do would have resulted in a working dialog. Rather, I got submarined by a blanket action taken against a hit list.

As I said in my earlier post, I believe it wrong and unjust to put in place any permanent ban on members who have not broken the forum guidelines. It is reasonable for temporary bans, but it is just as reasonable to reinstate a member.

Again, these are my opinions and your mileage may vary.

I DON`T EVER GET INTO THESE CONVERSATIONS,AND USUALLY JUST SIT BACK AND WATCH THE FIREWORKS.I`VE BEEN ON THIS SITE FOR AWHILE. AND HAVE SEEN THIS TOPIC BEAT TO DEATH...I`M OLD SCHOOL AND BELIEVE IN RESPECT.TOO MANY OF THE NEW MEMBERS COME IN HERE AND WANT INFORMATION AND ITS HOW THEY REQUEST THEIR INFORMATION TO THE MEMBERSHIP AND IT AMAZING WHEN THEY DON`T GET WHAT THEY WANTED THEY START WINNING AND BLAME IT ON THE OLD MEMBERS ON HOW THEY ARE TREATED.. WE HAVE SO MANY MEMBERS THAT ARE AT DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EXPERIENCE IN THIS HOBBY,SO WE HAVE TO TAKE AGVANTAGE OF THE EXPERIENCE THAT THESE MEMBERS HAVE,,WE HAVE TO START THIS YR OFF ON A POSITIVE NOTE AND END THIS BS!!,, I KNOW NEW MEMBERS WANT INFO BUT PLEASE ASK IN A POSITIVE MANNER,AND IF YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT GIVE IT FIRST!!


I SUPPORT BOB RICHARDS 100%..
TXS ALAN

Well said Al and Bob Richard. The same ones continue to ramble on trying to change what has worked fine without them.

In my opinion, this is a shining example of one of the MAJOR problems we face.

Alas, if only we as humans had this type of mentality, we would still live in the good old days of dying of malaria, polio, and being unable to sustain ourselves as a society due to lack of proper food cultivation

Any time any idea is brought up for change there are always a couple of people who say the same repeated "Jim has done just fine on this site without your help," "This site has been fine without this idea or you," etc. etc.

If this is how Jim feels, I would hope he would clearly post a site rule stating "Members cannot contribute ideas for the possible betterment of this site," and then maybe change the moderators names to "Dictators," or "Tyrants?" I would love for Jim or the moderators to inform me and everyone else on this site if EVERYTHING that is on this site came out of Jim's thoughts, or if maybe just 1 or 2 features or policies came from members wanting to HELP him push this site in an even more positive direction?

I study business quite often, and have yet to read about 1 successful entity that ignored outside influence to harbor only its own internal ideals.

The world, in EVERY ASPECT evolves by the minute. You have 2 options. Evolve with it. Or go create your own space with your own rules on your own (even then, you still have to pay taxes, so good luck being your own tyrant).

Now, people like Bob Richards, who express that they have different opinions and ideas and express reasoning behind them, they have respect, intelligence, and are a HUGE part of the reason the site is successful. Anyone who says "let's not change for change's sake"....well it's a case of dead weight...nothing positive can be said about them so I won't say anything.

Again...my opinion.

Thread started out as MAN-UP and look were it's gone WOW! At some point in time we have all made mistake's So lets man-up. If you don't have anything possitive to contribute to the site or other members then why say anything AT ALL.
I have the utmost respect for Jim and the veteran members on this site And enjoy sharing their knowledge. Theirs a lot to learn .
I beleive that the moderators on this site do a great job , but as this site grows with newbee's (like Myself) maybe a little help Is needed.
JIM if your listening (reading) I would like to nominate 2 nominee's For silent moderators .
Dick Bennett
Bob Richards

Gene

I SECOND THAT!!!