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#406707 - Tue Apr 02 2013 10:43 AM Cities Service clock??
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Another fellow and I are trying to determine the originality of this recently found Cities Service clock. I have never seen this particular clock before and wanted to present it to the Old Gas community for their opinions?
We have a few facts--the clock body is an actual 1940's piece that is witout a doubt original equiptment. The good condition of the face is what has me concerned. Not to say that its not possible to survive this well, just suspect is all. The interior of the clock is in a state of dirtiness that would be hard to fake, and indicates that this clock has been in the same location for quite a long time. The back of the face can be seen thru the bulb access doors on the back and the numerals and indicator lines can be felt from the back. They have a raised feel to them, much as an old ad glass would feel. Definitely not smooth and covered over with any film or coating.
The clock was supposedly hanging in an old Citgo station for a number of years(not substantiated).
At first I was very skeptical about the originality, but am starting to lean more towards it being an original piece? What are your thoughts?


Attachments
Cities Service clock-resized.jpg


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#406710 - Tue Apr 02 2013 10:49 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Notchcad]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Here is a pic of the back side!


Attachments
Cities Clock Back-resized.jpg


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#406712 - Tue Apr 02 2013 10:52 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: K W FRITH]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
nice looking clock.. cool
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RANDY

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#406715 - Tue Apr 02 2013 11:12 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: advertologist]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
i like it! but I would be sure to check that inner ad glass real close, looks real nice.

does the backside of the inner glass feel smooth, or does it feel chalky? It should feel chalky because it is lead-based paint. All of the authentic pam clocks I have had or seen, you couldn't hardly feel the lettering from the backside and it felt like a used chalkboard sort of.

you could also lead test the back, but thats a bit more invasive.

i have seen less authentic cities service clocks than the fingers on my hands, so good luck - proceed with caution. to me it kind of looks like a Postal Telegraph Clock. I have one at home, whats the dimensions?


Edited by baileybee (Tue Apr 02 2013 11:14 AM)
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#406717 - Tue Apr 02 2013 11:18 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: BryceG]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
About 20 inches in diameter and 4 inches deep.


Edited by K W FRITH (Tue Apr 02 2013 11:18 AM)
Edit Reason: sp
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#406723 - Tue Apr 02 2013 11:32 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: K W FRITH]
Catauladave Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Aug 27 2011
Loc: Cataula, Georgia, USA
I lean more towards original clock, repo/fantasy face. Where are the clock experts when you need one or two? I hope that I am wrong for you Kevin.
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It's All Just Stuff

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#406724 - Tue Apr 02 2013 11:36 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Catauladave]
porcelain-neon Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Feb 08 2007
Loc: Minot,ND USA
I would say the clock is older than that logo.
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#406729 - Tue Apr 02 2013 11:56 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: porcelain-neon]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
if it were me... and its not... but if its cheap enough (<$175) just roll with it and get it. Even a decent postal telegraph clock costs $150. But if its going to cost you in the $300+ range, I would say its going to be hard to say that the inner face is original.

plus if you decide to get rid of it, Ebay users would probably bid it to $400+ smile
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#406733 - Tue Apr 02 2013 12:12 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Catauladave]
Bob Richards Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 22 2005
Loc: Longview, WA
I don't know clocks as well as I would like...

I've owned a few "original" clocks from gas stations... That I personally took off the walls, when we "broke down" the stations for salvage... One thing that was almost uniform on each and every clock. Was that the clock faces were not in pristine shape... Ultra-violet rays from the Sun and from the surrounding lighting did a number on the faces... Bleached them out and in quite a few instances turned "white faces" into cream/yellow faces... Some times even light brown/dark brown depending on the face material....

Remember early Fluorescent lighting from the late 40s through the 70s? Not only would it hum, but too often it sang.... These old fixtures and lamps would put out so much leaking ultra-violet and stray electrical energy that it could change the color of ceiling tiles and if the ballasts were really bad, the leaking energy could even bleach out wall colors.... (early incandescent fixtures weren't any better... look at early painted fixture shades and see how much the color of the paint has been altered... I've even seen it on porcelain shades... and who hasn't seen a ceramic socket that wasn't changed in color)

Every time I see a supposed "vintage Original" color with a nice white face... I jump to an immediate conclusion that the face has been altered... I very well could be wrong in some instances. But I don't believe I am wrong too often....

The nice white face in this clock, IMO, doesn't "stand up to the test"... My opinion is based on my own experiences; For whatever that is worth?....
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#406743 - Tue Apr 02 2013 12:42 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Bob Richards]
minuteman Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Apr 05 2003
Loc: Big Sky Country
does it look like the clock has been taken apart in last few years kevin.....like any marks on screws or nuts where something might have been opened up??
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#406749 - Tue Apr 02 2013 12:54 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: minuteman]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Kim--I don't have it in front of me, but from the description my friend gave me, it sounds like it looked untouched as far as being taken apart. There was dirt between the clock case and the bulb covers and the original gasket (along with a bunch of dirt) is still in place under the face cover rim. Also the screws didn't show any sign of being touched.
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#406767 - Tue Apr 02 2013 02:44 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: K W FRITH]
marxmobilgas Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Thu Jul 10 2003
Loc: DFW Texas USA
is there crazing in the face when lit up?
as evidence of hot bulbs roasting away the paint over the years?

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#406780 - Tue Apr 02 2013 03:32 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: marxmobilgas]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Like others I lean toward this being a vintage clock with a replaced face. That face could either be a reproduction or from another clock similar in size. The hour and minute hands are not a color I would expect to see on a Cities Service clock.
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#406802 - Tue Apr 02 2013 06:08 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: carolinaskies]
roadrelics Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Dec 21 2002
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
some clocks and especially telechrons used a baked on translucent porcelain face..this company could have also used the same process and could be why it held up so well, and i have never seen a porcelain finshed telechron fade....so in my opinion if it is porcelain, its real and if its painted, most like been replaced...that would be an easy test...porcelain faces won't scratch, peel, and paint remover won't touch it....

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#406823 - Tue Apr 02 2013 07:37 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: roadrelics]
Terry Flannery Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Jun 20 2001
Loc: Goodman WI USA
Looks like a hodge podge to me, I say buy it cheap.

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#406856 - Tue Apr 02 2013 09:16 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Terry Flannery]
vert1 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Mar 07 2012
Loc: Albuquerque NM
Kool find Kevin.
Nice addition to
Collection

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#406861 - Tue Apr 02 2013 09:28 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: vert1]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
No, I haven't bought it yet. The owner asked me for a valuation and we had a long discussion on the originality of this clock. One has to be very careful with clocks, because of the proliferation of fakes! I told him I was interested in purchasing it, but he doesn't feel comfortable yet to price it.
I would feel better also if I knew the whole story on it. I've sent a lot of pictures out and maybe some of the clock people I have sent them to will shed more light.
I think Daryl probably had the best suggestion, but not sure I can get the owner to test the face that way! We'll see what happens the next few days!
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Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133

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#406905 - Wed Apr 03 2013 07:32 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: K W FRITH]
JimT Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 06 2002
Loc: Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
Not a commonly repopped sized glass. On the other hand, it does look like a Postal Telegraph and I havent seen any of those with advertising -other than "Postal Telegraph". Not that that means much. This being an earlier electric clock, I'd think that there would be an identifying name or mark on the ad glass, as manufacturers were proud of their work back in the day. Also, with a company as big as Cities was, youd think there would have been a number of them made. Also, if it was a one off, I'd think that it would have the station owners name or address on it. I would like it to be original for you, cuz its a cool looking clock. Shame what has happened to these backlit ad clocks. There is a discussion in another forum going on right now about unmarked repops....


Edited by JimT (Wed Apr 03 2013 07:32 AM)

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#406940 - Wed Apr 03 2013 11:18 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: minuteman]
whiteflash Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 02 2005
Loc: North East Pa USA
That looks to be a Gill Clock made in Philadelphia [would be present on rear case label] They are rare and are advertising clocks. I have never seen this lens before. I would recommend comparing the reverse side of the glass to a Gill globe lens. Should be same MFG process. Hands are correct style [paint?]for the clock and motor looks to be original

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#407014 - Wed Apr 03 2013 05:58 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: BryceG]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Originally Posted By: baileybee
i like it! but I would be sure to check that inner ad glass real close, looks real nice.

does the backside of the inner glass feel smooth, or does it feel chalky? It should feel chalky because it is lead-based paint. All of the authentic pam clocks I have had or seen, you couldn't hardly feel the lettering from the backside and it felt like a used chalkboard sort of.

you could also lead test the back, but thats a bit more invasive.

i have seen less authentic cities service clocks than the fingers on my hands, so good luck - proceed with caution. to me it kind of looks like a Postal Telegraph Clock. I have one at home, whats the dimensions?


Kevin

You should be able to feel the back of the glass through the back access holes shouldn't you ?

Doug

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#407090 - Thu Apr 04 2013 02:33 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: blacktee]
Dave's Garage Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Dec 05 2011
Loc: Abbotsford, British Columbia, ...
Condition of glass face doesn't appear to match the rest of the clock.
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Dave GILL,
Dave's Garage & Memorabilia, Inc.

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#407109 - Thu Apr 04 2013 06:50 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Dave's Garage]
Catauladave Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Aug 27 2011
Loc: Cataula, Georgia, USA
The saga of the Cities Service clock continues...
If you could examine the clock...I believe that you would know.Dave
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Dave Jones
It's All Just Stuff

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#407156 - Thu Apr 04 2013 11:30 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Catauladave]
oldnfuelish Offline
FATW Feature Host

Registered: Wed Nov 02 2005
Loc: Antioch,IL
well,ive been trying to research this a bit,and i think it may be real.the clock itself definatly looks to be a gill glass co,or gillco clock.have found several images on the web to compare to.(although i left my ipad up at the cabin,and refuse to go to imageshack on my pc to upload them).i had never heard of them before.i agree with the fact that its not a popular size.also,being as it was made by gill,it would have been made in the same way as a globe lens,and fired on,which could explain the condition of the face.although i have been playing with clocks for a few years now,i realize i am far from being an expert,and that several on here know more than i do.we all know that without holding it in person,and looking firsthand that its easy to be fooled.but i have asked others that havent posted,and between those answers and the research i was able to do,i really think its an original clock. mick
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Looking for gas,oil related clocks,especially neon and spinners .clock repair available. Mick

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#407176 - Thu Apr 04 2013 03:10 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Terry Flannery]
Rust and Dust Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Sep 10 2012
Loc: Georgia
Im with dave the clock body shows obvious wear. Small dents maybe and light rust. But the face and the hands are perfect. Looks suspect. But a cool
Peice for sure. Its also a little to clean on the inside.
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#407190 - Thu Apr 04 2013 04:11 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: Rust and Dust]
47reo-travis Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Dec 18 2011
Loc: Fredericktown Missouri
Kevin I can't offer much input but that is a nice looking clock and needs to be on one of your shop walls , I like it , sharp! Nice discovery.
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#407283 - Fri Apr 05 2013 02:25 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: 47reo-travis]
67Chev4X4 Online   content
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Aug 14 2008
Loc: Cheyenne, WY
Is this the clock now on ebay #290892566245 Mitch

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#407294 - Fri Apr 05 2013 06:41 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: 67Chev4X4]
oldnfuelish Offline
FATW Feature Host

Registered: Wed Nov 02 2005
Loc: Antioch,IL
Sure is!
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Looking for gas,oil related clocks,especially neon and spinners .clock repair available. Mick

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#407295 - Fri Apr 05 2013 06:48 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: oldnfuelish]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
starting bid of 250, and then also a reserve... wonder how high he's expecting it to go? My guess is 450-550
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Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
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#407334 - Fri Apr 05 2013 11:25 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: BryceG]
wfort39663 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Jan 24 2004
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
eBay listing has ended.
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Bill Fortune

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#407336 - Fri Apr 05 2013 11:42 AM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: wfort39663]
BryceG Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 28 2013
Loc: Peoria, IL
haha... very stereotypical series of events
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Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

See some of my collection & Items for sale...
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#407347 - Fri Apr 05 2013 12:49 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: BryceG]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
He called this morning and asked if I would match a $1500 offer that he had on the clock, since he had promised me first shot at it. Well, I didn't realize it was on ebay and I told him that was more than I thought it was worth, so the clock got sold!
Evidently someone named Ralph White from Texas bought it!


Edited by K W FRITH (Fri Apr 05 2013 01:35 PM)
_________________________
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
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Cell#-701-739-6133

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#407360 - Fri Apr 05 2013 01:44 PM Re: Cities Service clock?? [Re: K W FRITH]
oldnfuelish Offline
FATW Feature Host

Registered: Wed Nov 02 2005
Loc: Antioch,IL
Well,I figured he was gonna be looking for at least 1000, but 1500 is amazing.guess that guy really wanted it.he thinks its real too!lol!
_________________________
Looking for gas,oil related clocks,especially neon and spinners .clock repair available. Mick

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